Idle, ugly thoughts (Pats lose to Arizona Cardinals)

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Sep 16, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    Boy that was a roller coaster of emotion. Lots of things to discuss...or more accurately get off my chest. Knee jerk reaction is a generous discription.

    1. We didn't lose that game because Aaron Hernadez got hurt. Granted its hard to lose a guy like that so early in the game without some disruption, but that wasn't even close to the reason they lost the game. That responsibility goes from the top right to the bottom.

    2. The offense ran the ball well enough to score 30. They pass the ball well enough to score 30. BUT the problem was they never seemed to do it enough times in a row to sustain drives.

    3. A perfect example was on the drive before the TD drive. The Pats had easily marched down the field and Lloyd makes a great catch for a first down. Then in the same series he drops an easy first down catch, followed by an a strange run call and missed pass and the drive was over.

    4. Make no mistake that the defense we see next week is not any better than the one we saw today. Unfortunately we are going to have to see it on the road.

    5. I don't know why exactly that the play that really pisses me off was the first down run that AZ made to "seal the game". Brandon Spikes has a tendency to predetermine which gap he's going to shoot or cover. On that play he predetermined an A gap, which was surprising because there was already a DLman in that gap. Thus when the runner came through the B gap, there wasn't a LB there to fill what was clearly his gap. There was no need to take that shot in the dark, but he did it anyways, and its not the first time either. DO YOUR JOB Brandon.

    I think this pisses me off more than the drop by Welker, or the miss by Gotskowski. Those are physical errors. They happen. But this play and the hold by Gronk are just dumb mental errors, and unfortunately these 2 guys weren't alone.

    6. For a 2nd straight game TB missed a wide open man deep.

    7. Anyone who blames Danny Woodhead for that lost yardage is simply either an *****hole or doesn't know anything about football. After seeing it few times, I'm hard pressed to blame Thomas. It was a badly designed play that ran into the wrong stunt. The AZ DT was hitting the G-T gap on a play designed to go to the Outside. It was a very hard, but not impossible block for Thomas. However, Wookhead had no place to go.

    The real mistake was the design of the play that required an OLmn to cut off a player hitting the gap to the play side of the LOS. An OG shouldn't have to "reach" block such player. They simply shouldn't.

    8. You are going to hear about all the pressure Brady was under. I saw the numbers 3 sacks and 8 pressures. While I don't know if they are true, but at least 2 of the sacks were or the coverage variety, and the other was fake reverse abortion where no one blocked Acho at all. The pass blocking for great stretches of time was simply excellent, and then at the most inopportune moment look very ordinary. The same can be said about the run blocking..

    9. As fairly flawless as Josh McDaniel's play calling was last week, it seemed to be just a bit out of sync, just like the rest of his team. Maybe it had to do with the adjusting he had to make mid stream after the Hernandez injury.

    10. The good news is that nothing is broken and its being called the "dreaded" high sprain. That's usually a 6-8 week injury, so I wouldn't be planning on him before we come back from the bye. And it probably better if we don't rush him.

    11. There are plenty of individual plays that were missed that could have change this game dramatically in our favor, but there should be no EXCUSES. Ultimately, THEY made the plays they had to, and WE.....didn't.

    12. One the plus side the defense as a whole played very well. AZ were gifted 10 points, and their 2nd TD drive was highlighted by a 60 missed sack that turned into a run and personal foul. Outside of that play they didn't do much.

    13 I thought the secondary play was better than last week. I really think we are going to be OK there. The run defense was decent, but could be better. The Pass rush outside of a few isolated incidents wasn't strong, except for Jones' work. I would really like to see a blitz on 2 sometime soon. And I think its starting to look like the McCourty we are going to see this year is a lot closer to year #1 than year #2.

    14. I don't see how Edelman got that spot. I don't see how BB's challenge wasn't overturned. BUT the bottom line please don't blame the refs for that loss. Even though it wasn't much of a hold but Gronk did it, and the official was right to throw the flag. And while I would agree they sucked as a group, they sucked equally for both sides. Believe me the Pats and their coaching staff did more wrong in this game than the refs did. Please don't make us sound like Jet fans.

    15. There really is no such thing as a good loss, this could be as good as one as there was. If you are going to lose a game, the best ones are non-conference game. Remember this is a very young group and there are a lot of great lessons to be made from this game going into the Ravens game.

    16. I never really thought we were going to lose that game. It reminded me a lot of the Buffalo game we stole here a few years ago. I always felt something would happen so we'd pull out a "game we didn't deserve to win".....until we didn't. It will be good be underdogs again, and that's what we'll be next week.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  2. PatriotFan77

    PatriotFan77 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    yep, my mistake- reread it now I see
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2012
  3. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot Supporter Supporter

    #11 Jersey

    I think he meant against the Titans.
    It sucked this week.
    If TB has the ability to audible and actually participate in RUNNING the offense…then he too is to blame.
  4. HowardRoark

    HowardRoark On the Game Day Roster

    #75 Jersey

    That point stuck out to me as well. Absolutely do not agree.
  5. This was a GREAT LOSS. Call it a Cleveland loss, a wake up loss, a hidden attitude fixer, a loss before an actual decider-game on the road.

    Nothing would be worse than to steam roll the Cards and to walk into Baltimore with fat rookie heads. This is good Humble Pie. Baked by Mom.
  6. PatriotFan77

    PatriotFan77 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    After further review I see that too, thanks for pointing it out.
  7. PatriotReign

    PatriotReign Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    #24 Jersey

    From what I heard it was a bad snap by Aiken and that this has been going on for a while.

    I also think the lack of receiving options hurt once Hernandez went down. I wouldn't mind seeing Gaffney and Branch back. I also think reaching back out to Waters wouldn't be such a bad thing.
  8. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 Supporter Supporter

    Wow, I gotta get me a pair of those Rose Colored glasses or a few hits of whatever it is you're smoking, because I see very little good in this, for the reasons that folks have put out. I'll just add the blocked punt and four sacks, that seem to have been left off of most folks' laundry lists.

    That doesn't mean that I think "we're doomed" or won't eventually win the Division, but that it's going to be a long tough season and that next week is going to be one of our tougher tests.

    The best we can hope for is that every team in the Division is 1--1 after today, but the Jets are putting up quite a fight in the first half in Pittsburgh, so we might be looking up at them; the Ravens are coming off a tough loss to a good team and have revenge on their minds from last January.
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson Veteran Supporter

    You think Hernandez would have made no difference? We lost by the slimmest possible margin. If he couldn't close that, he must suck.

    Not sure how 28 rushes for 90 yards and 3.2 per carry is good enough to score 14 much less 30. 5 of the 28 rush were stopped for losses totalling 18 yards. That is not good.

    Again those plays are not the stuff that is worthy of scoring 30 points. You are saying they played well enough to score more points then using poor play as the reason they did not.

    How do you know 'obviously' what he was supposed to do? What was the play call? What was his read, and responsibility? Was it not the first time he did that or you assumed you knew what his assignment was when you don't?

    Holding isn't a mental error.

    Are comments like this really necessary?

    Design or call. Never correct to have an OL reach on a DL on a wide play.

    That is typical of poor OL play. "No one blocked the guy" is not an endorsement of good OL play.

    Or execution.

    Only time will tell. I would hope this means Gaffney or Branch are being told what time practice is.

    There are never excuses for losing (at least not valid ones) but there are always reasons. Sometimes those reasons are outside of your control.

    I didn't like the pretty easy TD drive allowed to take the game from 13-9 to 20-9, that was a clutch drive for a stop, nor the failure to stop the last drive on 3 plays, but overall the D was good.


    Thats a tough call because you have to mark it where he made the catch while being driven back. The Cards had no challenges left.

    Because it was a catch.

    No he was not.

    Its a fact that the referees calls were more hurtful to the Patriots.
    It is also a fact that winning a football game requires winning in spite of how the calls go.
    It is not Jetfan like to accept that bad calls affected the outcome, unless you are whining about it and pretending it isn't your responsibility to win despite it.

    No loss is good. One loss is not devastating.

    The Ravens are probably the most overrated team in the NFL.
    If we lose next week it will not be because the opponent is too good, it will be a sign that there are some real problems to be corrected here.
  10. And, IMO, why those things have not happened comes down to Belichick's stubborness at the expense of the team.....
  11. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    We just aren't a very clutch team, haven't been for a few years. Can't make the plays that we need to. That, especially, includes our QB.
  12. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    That's probably the same reason we're seeing Edelman out there as much or more than Welker.
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue Supporter Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    This is one of those WTF loses that happens at least once a year. You play a team you think you should beat and everything is disjointed and you end up losing. I hope this is the WTF game of 2012.
  14. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson Veteran Supporter

    What do you think he is being stubborn about? What do you think he is valuing more than winning?
  15. There is no way that I, or anyone else, can say, 100%, that he is being stubborn. However, over the years, he has come off looking that way on several occasions. This, IMO, is one of them.

    To answer your question, just a gut feeling.
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson Veteran Supporter

    How can the team that wins the most game be one that you say can't make plays when they need them? I mean do teams that lose more often make more plays when they need them?
  17. juny

    juny In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    Don't know how Edelman starting over Welker is valuing winning more? If Welker is hurt that is what the injury report is for. If Welker is just a decoy/backup, sure could have used some of that $9.5M to lure Waters back
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson Veteran Supporter

    I didnt ask why you think he is stubborn, I asked WHAT you think he is being stubborn in favor of. Gut feeling doesnt answer that.

    I can agree he is stubborn, but stubborn about doing what is best for the team.
    You are implying he has a different agenda of being stubborn that something else is more important than winning, and I have no idea what you could possibly think that agenda is.
  19. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson Veteran Supporter

    Well first of Edelman isnt 'starting over Welker'. Secondly, are you arguing that BB is punishing Welker at the expense of the team because Welker didn't sign an extension.
  20. juny

    juny In the Starting Line-Up

    No Jersey Selected

    I don't know what is going on, but 2 facts:
    1) Edelman started the game today.
    2) Edelman has more snaps through 2 weeks than Welker, with Welker being healthy.

    Just very bizarre.
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