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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, May 13, 2007.

  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    ....just some odds and ends to justify not being out on such a glorious day...yet. A few thought on things we've discussed or I've recently heard talked about. Or as my old friend Bill Shakespear would say, "much to do about nothing."

    1. I goes without question that his has been the most productive offseason in the Bellichick era. It could be said that it is the most productive in Patriot history....and it isn't over yet.

    The effect on the team is obvious and well reported. However the effect on rabid fans like us has been greater still. Since March one, there has been more stuff to talk about, defend, analyse, promote, and discect, than I can recall in my memory. The Pats have been in the forefront of the local media as never before in these months. And that translates nationally as well. We HOPE it will end up being good for the team. We KNOW it has been good for us.

    2. On the other hand, bringing in so many NEW veteran players brings to question how well this team will come together. It hasn't been since 2001 that we have brought in so many new faces to blend together into a cohesive team. Unfortunately, it IS NOT going to happen in just one training camp. As far as the offense goes, we are going to have understand that there will be some offensive hiccups along the way.

    On the other hand I am fully confident that THAT ellusive chemistry will come to pass by the time the playoffs come around.

    3. I read Ron Borges column today and was actually impressed. I was negative enough to reinforce everyone's impression of him as a Pats basher. (A reputation Borges wears proudly, btw), but it was emminently fair as well. In other words, it was the best of Borges, and what he could be if he didn't let his personal prejudices get in the way.

    However I feel compelled to point out that the people he quoted who were the most negative, (the OC and HC) where the 2 guys, who had the best reasons to slant their impressions to the negative side. Sometimes, it kind of sounded like, "its not MY fault, it was Randy's." On the other hand, I have no reason to believe the incidents described didn't happen.

    4. This leads to my questions and fears about Randy Moss. I have none about what kind of teammate he will be and whether he will be a problem in the lockerroom. Those thing will sort themselves out. However I want to know if he is in NE RIGHT now. If not I want to know when he will get here. The next 6-8 weeks are going to be a critical time for him and his adjustment period. It will give us a better idea of his commitment to the progam, and go a long way to establishing a rapport with his QBs. SO, does anyone know if Moss is in Foxboro fully committed to the off season program?

    5. Neither Moss nor Stallworth are known as crisp route runners. I have a concern that we are added 4 new WRs to the offense and the guy we have coaching them is a rookie. I'm sure these new guys will have respect for BB, and to a lesser degree Josh. However I am at a loss to think how well they will work with a new guy, who doesn't have any bona fides in either PLAYING or COACHING the WR position. THough I don't bemoan the loss of Diaboll, who left BEFORE the acquistions were made, but I wish he were here. I can see BB spending a lot of his training camp time over with the receivers. I'm not sure I am happy about that.

    6. I don't mean to sound gloomy here. It is incredibly exciting contemplating the possibilies having BOTH Stallworth and Moss on the field at the same time. I don't envy any of the DC who will be forced to deal with this....along with the rest of the Pats offensive threats. If last season taught us anything, it is very difficult to assimililate virtually an entirely new WR corps. So while there is a lot of positive things to thing about, there are some REAL coaching challenges that face the team.

    7. I've been think about the Troy Brown issue, and I think I've come up with an effective transition to the log jam at WR. On one hand I think Troy Brown's presense is important to the success of the team. On the other, the speed in which we went after Wes Welker, infers that the Pats perceived they had a REAL weakness at the slot receiver position.

    I think if the Pats highered Brown as an assistant WRs coach at the same salaray they'd pay him for being an active player. In essence he'd be a player coach, but he wouldn't take a spot on the 53 man roster. He could work out with team. He would be able to pass on his knowledge. He would also be available, in case of injury, to be signed as a player and contribute.

    I think this is a better way than hiding him on the PUP, since as a coach, he can be around the team, and his activities with the team wouldn't be subject to the PUP rules. It also keep us from doing what we most fear, which is having to release him. If he becomes a "player/coach" the Pats are covered both ways. AND its not like we can't use the coach, especially at wide receiver. The Pats annually carry one of the smaller coaching staffs in the league

    8. Am I the only guy surprised that in the 6th round, the Pats picked Lua over Brandon Siler. His precipitous slide was surprising, but I would have thought the Pats would have chosen a guy who was a starter on a National Champion, to a guy who was our this year's version of Matt Cassell. Anyone got any info or an explaination on Siler? Was he a bad character guy?

    9. This TC is going to have some of the fiercest competiton we have ever seen, especially at the WR, OL, and DL positions. We are gong to see some names we actually recognize being cut. Picking the final 53 is going to be a favorite topic on boards like ours.....Which is probably good, since we will have little else to do till September.

    10. Questions on the draft I would love to have BB tell me the truth on.

    a. If BOTH Merriweather and Griffin where available at 24, which would you have picked?

    b. Why did you choose Lua over Siler?

    c. What possessed you to pick 3 OLmen at the bottom of the draft, an area which is already the deepest, youngest, most stable position on the team? Does Dante need more to do?

    d. Would you have taken Zack DeOssie in the 4th if he'd been there?

    e. How come you didn't give Oakland the later pick in the 4th. Was that a deal breaker?

    Feel free to PRETEND you are BB and truthfully answer these questions

    10. I have been totally sure that the Pats would be signing a vet ILB before training camp, and if reports are true, it is likely to be Junior Seau. I'm fine with that, especially after last season. However, what will interest me the most at TC is which developmental LB out of Alexander, Wood, and Mays, will become the rotational guy.

    11. The top 10 reasons the Pats are a lock to make the playoffs this season can be summed up in one word. DEPTH. I have never seen a Pats team so stacked in depth at this point of the season. At this point in time, it is very likely that only 2 inexperienced guys are going to be counted on is playing any significant time on the regular defense. That's whoever becomes the 3rd guy at ILB, and Merriweather all over the secondary. I'm pretty sure, that outside of those 2and QB, any other injury would bring in a player who has previously had some significant starting experience. THAT IS AMAZING in this day and age of the NFL
     
  2. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    a. If BOTH Merriweather and Griffin where available at 24, which would you have picked?

    BB "On film we thought Merriweather showed superior versitility and promise as a backup kicker."

    b. Why did you choose Lua over Siler?

    BB: "We spent a lot of time with Lua and he seemed to have the capabilities to learn the way we play LB."

    c. What possessed you to pick 3 OLmen at the bottom of the draft, an area which is already the deepest, youngest, most stable position on the team? Does Dante need more to do?

    BB "Suffering with that crop of castoffs will teach that conniving HC wannabe to spread all those rumors to the NY press about me going to the frakin' Giants."

    d. Would you have taken Zack DeOssie in the 4th if he'd been there?

    BB "One DeOssie per career is one too many."

    e. How come you didn't give Oakland the later pick in the 4th. Was that a deal breaker?

    BB "The league office contacted Kraft and asked us to do whatever we could to help senile Al Davis become more competitive."
     
  3. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mmm ... all makes a LOT of sense to me -- except (a). Isn't that why we traded for Welker?
     
  4. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On (a) did you miss the infamous college game film with Merry?
     
  5. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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    Several of the draft gurus were not high on Siler. They thought his production was a function of a very good defensive line in front of him. It might of been Kiper who said that Siler "could look the part." He made several great plays that showed up on his highlight reel, but he apparently did not have the skill set/instincts teams were looking for. I believe he had the dreaded stiff in the hips label too.



    My answer - Merriweather. BB would never expound in public on who he had rated higher.

    see above

    Me- No one left in the later rounds of this draft had a snow ball's chance of making the team. BB likes to pick O-linemen low in the draft and coach them up. There is a good chance none of these guys make the 53 man roster, but they may have future upside developing on the PS.

    BB- we draft players who we think can develop and help us win football games. We don't go into a draft saying we are going to draft a certain position in a certain round yada yada yada

    Me - yes. BB - would not answer this question. They are apparently high on Kareem Brown so the real answer may have been no.

    Me - yes. BB- yes
     
  6. sarge

    sarge Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The thing I think I heard about Siler was that a lot of people thought he was a product of the superior talent he had around him.

    In all of his highlights, he always seemed untouched. He seemed to never have to take on blockers.

    That said, every round I kept hoping the Pats would pull the trigger. He seemed really fast for an inside linebacker.

    We'll see how it all works out.

    I suspect the passing game will suffer mightily early.

    Two many new guys.

    I think by week 10 we will know what kind of passing attack we have. But not before!
     
  7. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Duh! (Kicks self on backside ...)
     
  8. Va_Pats_Fan

    Va_Pats_Fan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    When do the Bandwagon fans start?

    uggg...
     
  9. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As always, a great article PFK.

    A) I think the Pats would have gone with Meriweather. The knock on Grifin is that he has a hard time covering people.

    B) Siler is reported to be arrogant and not listen to coaches. As someone else said on here. He supposedly walks around talking like Ray Lewis, but plays the game like Wesley Mallard.

    C) The Patriots are switching to a zone blocking scheme. Also, in the previous 7 years of the Pats under Belichick, they've used no less than 4 OTs. The Pats, prior to the draft, only had 4 OTs. Of the 4, Britt hasn't proven to be anything special. O'Callahgan, in my opinion, is a concussion away from having to call it quits. Kaczur is 28 and Light is 29. Adding 2 guys who are under 24, even to the practice squad, is a good thing.

    On Elgin, he's great for the Zone blocking scheme and, from reports, is great at attacking the DT/NT and getting the better leverage. That gives him the upper hand.

    D) That is a question that I think we'd all like answered. However, BB would probably answer with something like. "He wasn't there so why speculate on something that couldn't have happened."

    E) That would also be a good question to ask.


    Well, they will have depth at ILB and OLB if Seau is signed. The bigger question is how will Alexander, Woods, Rogers and Lua develop. I see Mays being destined for the practice squad, honestly.

    CB is still a concern until they get Samuel signed either to an extension or, at least to the franchise tag.
     
  10. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry, i lost just where ... perhaps among the great selection of excerpts Box furnished elsewhere.

    But one of the credentialed journalists, inventorying the locker room,
    noticed that ...
    while Welker's and Adalius' lockers were stuffed with personal belongings
    ... Moss' locker, adjoining Brady's, contained only 3 items of team-issued clothing
    and appeared not to have been lived in.

    Probably, we both draw the same unsettling inference.
     
  11. jcdavey

    jcdavey In the Starting Line-Up

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    that line describes donnie edwards job description when he was a charger...that being said i doubt siler is a starter in san diego anytime soon, barring injury, if he even makes the final roster.
     
  12. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Well, I think you got a steal with him. I thought he was a first day pick, easy.

    Just because 32 GMs and personnel guys didn't agree with me means nothing :D
     
  13. jcdavey

    jcdavey In the Starting Line-Up

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    i liked him coming out of college , but it seems like he's got a ton of attitude and the interview i saw of him pre draft kinda rubbed me the wrong way. hopefully his slide to the 7th round has opened his eyes and hopefully he doesn't feel special teams is beneath him :D
     
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Belichick addressed this at the draft. He said that Moss wouldn't be around for the Off-Season conditioning program and that Moss wouldn't be around until after the mini camps due to his training schedule. Belichick did not seem to have an issue with it.
     
  15. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Per various news sources: Before the Moss trade was consumated, BB involved his team leadership to get their input - 'nuf said there. Thomas and Welker are self-made men, classic Patriot start at the bottom and work your way up guys. Kyle Brady is a crafty old vet who played for BB before, his fit is no surprise. Morris is a player the Pats have coveted when he left Buffalo, not much question about his fit either. This leaves Stallworth and Washington, two WRs who, like Moss, are trying to resuscitate their careers and marketability, that's good for at least one solid season.

    Moss is reported to be in Florida following his standard off-season program. It is what it is.

    You really need to kick the methamphetamine habit and try Quaaludes for breakfast. http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32456
    What me worry? This guy was hired by Bill Belichick! Director of Pro Personnel for the Patriots and you worry about his stature? :nono:

    No

    Your not the only guy and I was surprised he was even drafted. Lua is the same height and weight as Siler, but reportedly played at the Patriots' prototype weight for 3-4 LB. Lua has some 3-4 exposure, also played on a National Championship team, competed for his job against one current starting NFL LB (and beat him out before injury cost him the slot), is reported to stack and shed well (essential for a Pats' LB), and above all was a classic do anything for the team guy. Siler was a classic 4-3 LB, one year wonder, reported by various draftnik sources who quoted NFL personnel commenting on his delusional belief in his own greatness. The kid almost talked himself out of the draft and was eventually taken as a late round flyer by a team with it's fair share of raving egomaniacs, emphasis on the raving.

    See Belichickfan's signature quote from BB on tackling and compare that to draft reports on Griffin's tackling ability (not his stats, his technique/skill).

    He was a better prepared player who was also a better fit for the Patriots.

    Depth at tackle was a concern, especially at LT. 2003 saw Hochstein and Koppen starting in the Superbowl due to the loss of two starters during the season..that has been the trend for Patriots' O-linemen since. Building depth through the Draft and Free Agency has been a consistent off-season policy to prepare for the turnover.

    We took Randy Moss, my bad.

    News sources report the initial Pats' offer was a 6th round pick. They report Green Bay offered a 5th. Green Bay would have been able to trump #127 http://www.nfl.com/draft/drafttracker/round/round4.

    I'm kind of curious myself.
     
  16. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    YUP - I was just getting ready to post that, if it's OK with BB, then it should be just fine for the likes of us. BB said he had prior commitments and it was not a problem.

    Key question though: How much time does it really take for a QB to get on same page with a new receiver (or FOUR) joining a team.
     
  17. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Based on the 2006 season, four months for your basic fit. On the bright side, Reche and Jabar are reported to be looking very good this off-season, and Wes hung around and made himself a pest for Tommy.
     
  18. Rob0729

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    Until we see how things turn out, 2003 is still the best offseason we have ever had in the Belichick era. They turned us from one of the worst run defenses to one of the best in one offseason. We added Harrison, Colvin, Poole (he did have one spectacular year), Tom Ashworth, Matt Chatham, and Don Davis via free agency. We drafted Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel,and Tully Banta Cain.

    Also, they made three spectacular trades that year. We traded our first rounder for a second rounder (we traded up for Eugene Wilson with the pick) and a first rounder in 2004 (which became Vince Wlifork). That was also the year the Pats raked the Redskins over the coals because they needed a fifth round pick to acquire RFA John Hall from the Jets. We swapped third round picks and gave up a fifth to get a fourth rounder in 2004. Also, we traded Tebucky Jones to the Saints for a third rounder and seventh rounder in 2003 and a fourth rounder in 2004.

    The 2003 offseason totally set up the 2003 and 2004 Super Bowl runs. It is premature to know if this offseason was better than that one.
     
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Supposedly Welker already got Tommy aside so he could find out how Brady wants routes run. Which is great news and it means that Welker followed what happened last year or Caldwell mentioned it to him.

    I hope that Stallworth and Moss will do the same thing so that, by training camp they are all starting to get on the same page.
     
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Is what it is???? Its not what I want. Maybe BB is satisfied, but I wouldn't. You would think Randy would start to answer any questions about his commitment by coming here and acting more like Stallworth and Welker, than Terrell Owen.

    That fact is that Moss is a luxury for us. He needs US morethan we need HIM. It was always one of MY conditions to his coming here. Doing the Pats conditioning program and working with Brady. More and more QBs are throwing to spots on the field. They are not waiting to see who's open or not. THAT was part of the problem at the begining of the year with our WRs. IF the QB throws the ball expecting a break at 12yds and the WR makes his break at 13, his back will be to the ball when it arrives. This isn't about TRYING, its about communications and feel. IT IS WHAT MADE the Brady/Branch connection work so well. THAT TAKES TIME and WORK.

    I'm not happy about this...

    .

    No one is perfect, but it is reasonable to question this. This is a young guy who spent ONE year as an NFL coach.....and then LEFT to go back to personel. How come. Did he not have a knack for it? Were the hours too much for his family? Hey this guy is probably a great judge of personel, BUT CAN HE COACH??? Can he command respect from guys who have all been in the league a while? What can he offer a guy like Moss?

    No, I don't see this as a critical situation, though I think BB will be hanging more with the offense and WRs this TC, and I'm not sure I like that as much. BB is the best teacher on the staff, and having him concentrate in one area, is taking away from another.
     

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