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Idle thoughts....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 24, 2008.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    ... this will have to be an abbreviated version.

    1. God all the continued talk about what to do with Matt Cassel is lasting longer than this years presidential campaign.....and JUST like that campaign, I can't wait for it to STOP!!!!!

    2. It has come to Pats fans to start to realize that this ship has already sailed. The fact is that on March 1, (IIRC) Matt will be an unrestricted FA, and UNLESS there is legitimate reason to believe that Tom Brady WILL NOT be ready to play at all in 2009, he WON'T be Franchised.

    AGAIN, as I have mentioned on several occasions, the ONLY way the Pats can conceivingly keep Cassel's rights is to get him to sign an extension during THIS season....and even that slim hope continues to decrease as his successes pile up.

    3. BTW- Matt Cassel could be the BEST story in the NFL this year. I STILL can't get over the fact that this kid HADN'T started a single game of football SINCE HS, before this season, yet within 11 games has come so far. Simply amazing and a HUGE credit to his coaching. I mean this kid had more time playing special teams at USC than QB

    4. BTW -II While I wasn't one of the MANY fans calling for his getting cut after an extremely disappointing preseason, HOWEVER I have to admit that I would have NEVER expected to see him develop SO fast into a guy that could possibly throw for 400 yds and still be a run threat.... AND anyone who claims that they predicted this kind of success... is LYING.

    5. Bottom line here is that it is MOST likely that the best the Pats can hope for is that we get a 3rd round comp pick for Cassell, and he goes to an NFC team....where I will wish him the best.

    6. Count me among those who are very upset at the continued inability of the Pats defense to get off the field on 3rd and longs.

    7. I was very curious at how the defenses were called this game. Over the years the Pats have become much more successful at defending Chad Pennington by squeezing his short routs and denying him those 10-15 yd hooks, crosses, outs and slants, that he throws so well. I found it very strange that many time the Pats combined some kind of defense that not only didn't put any pressure of Chad, it played a very conservative loose defense that played right into his wheelhouse.

    The Pats were much more successful when they played their CBs tough in the shorter to mid range zones and forced him to squeeze the ball into close quarters. Playing 5 under with 2 deep and 4 man rush is a great way to play to the Chad's limitations.

    8. Cointinuing on the defense, ANOTHER observation I noticed was the complete lack of any complexity when we did rush the Passer hard. Very few stems and crosses. Nothing that resembled a zone blitz. I have YET to see any of the Contributions I had hoped to see when we added that secondary coach, (whose name completely escapes me...Capers)

    9. AGAIN, I will predict that the Pats will end up 11-5, which will be an exceptional result given the injuries we have suffered
     
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  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sorry Ken but you are DEAD WRONG on this one. Cassel will be Franchised if he continues to play like this. There is no way Kraft, Belichick and Pioli will allow a value like him to walk. That concept doesn't pass the sniff test.
     
  3. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Ken, God love ya, you're just wrong about this, imo. The Patriots can easily justify Franchising Cassel, especially given Brady's injury. They will have the room, they will do their homework, they will Franchise him and they will then trade him for picks. Sure, there's a lot of blustery "wills" in that sentence, but I think you're really off-base, just assuming that it's not possible. The Patriots don't need there to be a "legitimate" reason to do so - they only need, and they HAVE, a legitimate-seeming reason.

    Franchise tags have to be administered someime during the combine, I believe. At that point, it will still be early enough, and therefore perfectly reasonable, for the FO to claim that they don't yet know what they have in Brady. Again, it may slightly strain credulity, but not enough to keep them from slapping Cassel with the tag.

    Otherwise, good reading your stuff. You're about the only mainstay on this board who's still got the energy to cut through the muck and keep on keepin' on. Thank you from those other vets, like myself, who are a little too frustrated and a LOT too lazy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  4. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, it wasn't until the Jetsts game that I came to accept that New England will franchise the kid. He's too valuable to let walk without getting a good sized slice of pie.

    New England will have more than enough room to franchise him, especially since he'll be gone shortly afterward.....
     
  5. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

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    #24 Jersey

    Didn't you see that he put this in CAPS. Ken evidently has special knowledge on this one and hopes to sway the rest of us by the power of capitalization, which is certainly easier than argument.:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  6. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    You'll have to wait a long time. After the season it will heat up even more.

    Yes he will. If Cassel continues his stellar play into the postseason, the Pats won't let him walk for nothing.

    Cassel can simply call the Pats bluff and sign the one year franchise tender. He won't do that. Therefore, the Pats will keep him until some team comes up with an offer. The NFLPA (which is at war with the Pats) will squawk, but there's nothing the NFLPA can do about it.

    I don't know why you are taking this position. The Chiefs did the exact same thing with DE Jared Allen.

    No argument here.

    No argument here, either.

    Again, IF Cassel continues his strong play into the playoffs, with the huge demand of starting QBs in the NFL, the Pats will get at least a 1st round pick for him.

    Amen, brother.

    The staff doesn't trust O'Neal and Hobbs on deep routes. CB is a huge weakness.

    Those were the good ol' days, 2001-2004, when their pass rushers were younger and their CBs were better.

    IMO, the Pats need a change in staff and philosophy. With receivers getting protected, you need to rattle the QB (thanks, Bill Polian!). If you can't generate a pass rush on 3rd downs, you won't win championships.

    Look at the Giants D-line. They stunt, they're aggressive. I have a strong dislike for Dean Pees and feel he needs to go. For the 2nd straight season, the Pats season ended because his D couldn't keep a 2-min offense out of the endzone. I've seen these same late game breakdowns this season in losses to the Colts and Jets.

    Then the Jets will win the AFC East. The Pats can't afford to lose a single game. Looking at the rest of their schedule, every game is winnable. But the Jets must lose at least one of two to the Phins and Bills. It could happen.

    As for the injuries, the only significant one is Thomas, but TBH, he's been a big disappointment since signing the big money. Moreover, and this is part of my problem with Pees, AT was not allowed to do what made him a beast in Baltimore, rush the passer. Too many times, I've seen him on pass coverage on 3rd downs. It's a head scratcher.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  7. Rawky77

    Rawky77 On the Game Day Roster

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    I afraid i agree with the majority on this, MC will be franchised and traded and not just for picks. The Pat's need to control where MC goes, it can not afford to have MC in our division. Unlike Bledsoe the last thing BB wants is to face MC twice a yr.
     
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  8. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I might disagree a LOT with your thoughts on officiating (more on that later) BUT I agree you are correct with Cassel...NO WAY do they tie up 11 million and hamper what they can do on D...for Cassel..they might NOT be able to sign WIlfork...others so I DOUBT they franchise him..unless they know that Brady is definitely out...NOT happening. NOT sure what they could do...but it will be way hard to Franchise given the timing.
    Not sure what and how they will change things on D...many injuries and young players. Do you think they can evolve and get stronger over the next weeks?? 3rd and longs...5-12 are just so hard for the team. The short undernerneath game is killing the team.
     
  9. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. The only downsize is that $5M will not be available to the team for the free agent market until Cassel is traded. The remaining $9M is needed after the draft to sign rookies, free agents, practice players, and an emergency fund for replacing players injured in camp or during the season. Since I would expect that Cassel would be traded before the draft or almost immediately after the draft, the effect is only $5M. The rest shouldn't be used early in any case.

    One strategy is to give Cassel's agent permission to talk to non-AFCE teams so that teams can present trade offers. The most striaghtforward way for this to work is for Cassel to sign the franchise tender. After all, he can buy the groceries for $14M for the 2009 season. Cassel's agent can have a veto on offers, since the best offer would require a trade and re-sign.

    The bottom line is that even we were to get a 5th, it is better than nothing. As of now, I would expect a 2nd, but that doesn't matter. We'll allow Cassel to test the market and get the best we can.

     
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    :confused:

    The most significant UFA we have (other than Cassel) is James Sanders. Wilfork, et al, still have a year to go - if we're lucky enough to get them to sign early it doesn't have to be in February, it can wait until late March after Cassel is traded and his Franchise number off the books and available again.

    Some of you are WAY overthinking this. It's a temporary $14M hit, it frees up and it's free, substantial draft picks. All I can say it THANK GOD you guys aren't running this front office.
     
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not sure where you get $5M, it's the $14M that would not be available.

    Even if we only got a #3 it's better than a comp #3 as it's tradeable, a little higher than the comp pick and doesn't disappear if we have a substantial FA class ourselves. IMO, no way to we get less than a #2. Probably a 2010 #1 I believe - unless Cassel tanks the rest of the way of course.
     
  12. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Since I have suddenly gotten some more time, here are a couple of additional idle thoughts

    a. An interesting thought occurred to me when I was reading that only 5 QBs since the merger have had back to back 400+ yd games, putting MC in some pretty heady company. However I would point out that ONE of those included in the group was Billy Voleck...nuff said. ;)

    b.For those looking for some CB help in the off season, one need not look much further than the Oakland CB with an unpronounceable name. He has both the size and skill to fit in perfectly here. That is one area I hope we are proactive in this year.

    c. I would be surprised btw, if we DON'T make somewhat of a splash in FA next year. Seems like we do it ever OTHER year and a CB would be a great addition.

    d. I'm not so unhappy with Merriweather as some, but I see him more as FS. He doesn't have the size to be an impact SS. Perhaps this is ANOTHER area for the draft or FA...a big hitting SS. Brandon is a willing hitter, he just doesn't have the size to back it up.

    e. I'm glad some people are thinking about the consequences of Franchising Cassel, as in being unable to sign Wilfolk. Listen I'd love to see up get a #1 pick+ for him, but given that teams will ALL know the situation, I can't think of a way a team will give up a critical #1 pick, when they can simply wait and join the bidding when we have to EVENTUALLY let him go. OTOH, I was shocked we got a #1 for Deion. :rolleyes: I would love to be proven wrong in this case
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    If that happens, we don't get the comp pick.

    I'm beginning to swing toward the theory that franchising Cassell could work. E.g., one tactic that could work is to just set a price on the trade value chart, and trade him to whoever meets that price and he wants to go to.
     
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  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    He's going to be Franchised, cross his name off your list.

    Which means we'd get no comp pick for Cassel if we didn't Franchise him.

    Wilfork has NOTHING to do with Cassel. When (not if) we tag him it will only be for a month or so. There will be GOBS of time to re-sign Vince after Cassel is traded if Vince is so inclined. Those who "are thinking about the consequences of Franchising Cassel" are totally out thinking themselves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
  15. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When Capers was signed, I tried to get the idea across to people that he was the secondary coach, not the defensive coordinator. The most I expected from him was a slightly more aggressive style with the DBs. However, given the inability to find a #2 DB that BB was comfortable with, that notion ended up being DOA. Then, once Wheatley went down for the season, any idea of a more aggressive approach on the outside disappeared. Hobbs is up to the task, but O'Neal would get beaten like a red-headed stepchild. If Capers sticks around another season and the team gets confident in the #2 DB, we may see that slight increase, but people shouldn't hold their breath waiting for New England to become Blitzburgh North.
     
  16. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unfortunately, it's all but guaranteed that he'll be tagged. I'd love to see him on the team if Davis loses his mind and lets him get away.

    I'm with you 100% on this. Sanders is more like the SS than Meriweather, and he's not a perfect fit himself. The ideal solution would be to keep Sanders for a fair contract and to find a true SS to create a 3 man rotation with Meriweather focusing on the FS position and dime db, and Sanders filling in both roles.

    Wilfork is signed through next season. The only impact franchising Cassel would have is in the timing of a new contract. Teams don't want to wait on a quarterback and suck for yet another season (plus the needed years of development) if they can avoid it.
     
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  17. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    One quick point.

    If he hasn't already, Cassel is very close to justifying all that is needed to franchise tag him simply by observing how he's playing out on the field. Playing the most difficult and important position on any football team, Cassel has posted numbers that not even Tom Brady can say he's posted. Another top game or two out of Cassel and the Pats won't need to justify to anyone why they have decided to tag him. Besides, neither the league nor the players union are in position to question teams on how high they value their players. Especially a team like the Pats who are the epitome of the league when it comes to valuing players especially late round QB's done good. ;)
     
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  18. patsgo

    patsgo Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    you dont pass the sniff test , hes spot on, your living in a fantasy land, if you rationally look at the facts and the rules, they cannot franchise him, and you will be proven wrong in march ill gauratee you
     
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Well a guarantee from you doesn't mean much does it.
     
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I really hope your right Bob. There will certainly be a huge market for him....IF he continues to put up successful numbers. Right now he looks like Brady with speed, but before everyone goes nuts, just remember that Derek Anderson posted some awesome numbers, got the big contract, and currently he's a back up on a bad team.

    Please don't forget that this league has a way of catching up to individual players VERY QUICKLY. In that vein, just look at the QB that was being touted as being better than Brady in Denver. You know...the team that just lost BIG to that Oakland powerhouse.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2008
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