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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 17, 2008.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    1. Based on what I keep hearing on the talk shows one of the major topics is what are the Pats going to do about Matt Cassel. Well here are my humble opinions.

    a. You DON'T franchise him. Its just too much money. If you DO franchise him, its because you have set up a deal for him that he will agree to. That means the Pats's compensation, Cassel's compensation (future contract) will all have to be pretty much agreed to PRIOR to the franchise tag being put on. Also to franchise a player merely to trade him is specifically against NFLPA rules. That's why everyone concerned will have to be on board for a franchise tag to work. AND since its highly unlikely that the Union, the Pats, the team looking to trade and the agent will all be on the same page; that's why the Franchise move will NEVEr work.

    b. Don't forget that the Pats believe that Kevin O'Connor is a BETTER QB prospect....you know, a guy who actually has started some games while he was in college. Its not like if the Pats lose Cassel the cubbard will be bare for a back up

    c. IF the Pats truly want to get something in the trade market for Matt THE ONLY way to do it is to extend his contract BEFORE the end of the season, as in RIGHT NOW. Cassel has 6 more regular season games left, as well as up to 4 more game in the post season. Brady's sudden injury is just further proof that your next play in the NFL could be your last one.

    Sure he's the flavor of the month TODAY, but if he got hurt next week, all the millions he is seeing in his future could be just dust. Not only that, what if he sucks for a couple of games. Its not like it hasn't happened before, even great QBs have gone through some bad stretches. Hell Kurt Warner has gone through some bad YEARS.

    What I propose is the Pats make him an offer to extend his contract to 2009. It would be an $8MM deal with a $5MM signing bonus. That way the kid would get paid $5MM for THIS year and at least $3MM for next year.

    What this really is a way for the Pats to get control of him in the off season. It pays him RIGHT NOW and gives him GUARANTEED financial security for his family IMMEDIATELY. It also doesn't REALLY effect his contact opportunities for the 2009 season. The second year of the contract would be torn up in a new 3-5 year deal that he'd sign with his new club. He could also work out a deal with the Pats that there would be certain teams that they COULDN'T send him to.

    Litterally, in exchange for instant financial security the Pats are given the opportunity to get some draft/player compensation, without really impacting Cassel's future compensation. Both sides win.

    d. Don't forget that the WORST thing that happens is Cassel becomes a FA, leaves the team and goes on to become someone else's starter. Well that would probably mean that in a future draft the Pats would most likely pick up a 3rd round comp pick. Which doesn't suck.

    2. Another hot topic today was whether officials in the NFL should be made full time because of all the blown calls that have cropped up this season. I CAN'T DISAGREE with this proposal more...for the following reasons

    a. First you would lose a SIGNIFICANT number for good respected and effective officials who WOULD NOT give up their day jobs to work full time. It would take SEVERAL years for the league to make up that kind of loss of experience

    b. I don't believe that making the officials full time would improve the officiated that much IF AT ALL. Baseball and Basketball officials are ALL full time, year how often do we go nuts over some of THEiR calls.

    c. The fact is not how bad the refs are, but HOW GOOD THEY ARE!. Think about it. In every game each team gets over 75-90 plays on offense (regular offense and in the kicking game. Conversly about 75-90 on the defensive side. On every one of these plays.there are 22 players creating 11 possible interactions (or more).

    Now if you multiply the LOW side of this it would mean that in every game there are at LEAST 825 interactions between players that the refs have to make decisions on, and that doesn't include alignment and formation calls. If you multiply it by the 16 games each week, you have over 13,200 potential decisions. AND how many to they ACTUALLY get wrong each week. 2..3...4 Thats not a bad percentage..doncha think. If we give DON'T give them the benefit of the doubt and say its 5 errors each week that you mean the refs error rate would be 5 out of 13,200. I'd take that kind of error rate any day.

    Given the speed of the game, the size of the players, etc., it shouldn't be a shock that they ever get it wrong. What we should be amazed at is how many time THEY GET IT RIGHT!!!

    d. Finally why are we asking the officials who are human to be required to execute to a higher level than the players they are governing. I keep hearing that we should make the refs full time so that they can watch film, and keep up with the rules more. Thats BULL. Who practices more than pro football players. Who spends more time at their craft than Pro football coaches. Does they ever make any mistakes. HELL YEAH. At a lot higher rate than the refs. Its call being human.

    BOTTOM LINE the guys who are refing the game KNOW THE RULES BETTER THAN ANYONE. Making them full time wouldn't improve the knowledge they ALREADY have. Already, every week they go through mountains of preparation. They don't just show up to the game.

    HEY there are going to be mistakes. THere have ALWAYS been mistakes. ITS PART OF THE GAME. Don't change the game, especially when making refs full time WOULDN'T improve the quality of officiating in the FIRST PLACE.

    3. The Randy Moss watch has already begun, see Felger. I like Felger but this is just another media creation. When there is no story..... CREATE one

    4. If the Pats beat Miami on Sunday, I predict the team will finish the year 11-5 (this prediction comes with the standard injury indemnification clause, as if the Pats could absorb MORE critical injuries.) You heard it here first...or second....or third. :D
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    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  2. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    why in the world would cassel agree on a 8 million dollar extention, when pundits in the league are talking a deal much greater than that, this is cassels pay day hes not letting it go by by agreeing for short term dough with the pats your dreaming
  3. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I pretty much agree with your line of reasoning, for the moment, anyway. I still am thinking over the idea of franchising Cassel, though. Not that I have any say in the matter, obviously... but just as an exercise.

    FWIW, it's "cupboard", not "cubbard ". :)
  4. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    THAT'S the point. He's not agreeing to a 2 year deal for short money and no starting position. What he IS agreeing to is to get $5MM RIGHT NOW, and allowing the Pats to have trading rights to a team who will give him the big money deal he's dreaming about. ASSUMING he remains healthy and playing well. BIG ASSUMPTION
  5. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pats can comply with NFLPA rules by franchising Cassel for several weeks before the draft while Brady's evolving medical status is clarified. A legit use of the tag.

    Yes, you only franchise him if you know you (the Pats) have a deal and it's one that Matt will accept. Why you adamantly feel that this admitedly lower % possibility will NEVER happen is beyond me. If his development continues, there will be several deals. If he tanks, the point is moot and Pats move on to The Mick as #2.

    I don't see why MC today should take the crappy $8M deal based on his better than avg NFL STARTER performance so far. Pats could keep him as a pricey backup and he'd miss his window of value. MC can likely command a deal whose total value is worth more than the $14M franchise year, plus he gets to START. It's obvious he enjoys starting. Take $5M cash today or wait untill the spring and take an immediate # far larger with a long term starter's contract.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2008
  6. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

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    so he signs brady has setbacks then the pats decide they arent trading him, cassel would the be screwed out of his pay day, also he looses leverage and the ability to pick his team , the best sitaution for him if he puts his future in the pats trading him, its not happening
  7. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who's this O'Connor fellow of which you speak? ;)
  8. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    They won't extend him and even if they tried, he wouldn't sign. He's looking at a big signing bonus, which the Patriots can't provide.

    As well, they can franchise and trade him because the franchise deadline will come long before we know entirely what's up with Tom Brady.

    They can trade him after Brady shows up at the training complex.
  9. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    If he's under contract for $3 million next year, that IS money out of his pocket, because it's negotiating leverage for his owners.

    What you're asking is that he commit to one year for $8 million now, protecting him against the risk that he can't get the big contract that now looks likely, but exposing him to two risks:

    1. That he can't get the contract a year later.
    2. That he gets sent to a team he wouldn't prefer.

    That could be more than $8 million expensive.

    Also, you made a small thinking error. If it's a bonus, the Pats pay it, and it's gone after he's traded. Is a pick even worth that? On the other hand, if it's a guaranteed salary for next year, then his new team pays it.
  10. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Huh? The refs can make that many errors on a single PLAY if there's a lot of grabbing going on that they don't call.
  11. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I totally disagree with that..part timers?? That is almost a joke that that is still the case.
    a----And you KNOW this because?? I always enjoy how someone states what would happen without ANY knowledge first hand...just speculates that officials would leave. Maybe...maybe not. you know what?? IF X, Y Z official cares more about his lawyering job or banking or whatever..then MAYBE he's REALLY not caring at all that much about the game. (Not to bring CoachB into it..but he always looks for people that love football...other interests??...LOL...) I would say fine with that..they are in a very small percentile of officials...maybe 120 or so...and I think if THAT is not what they want..fine.. NOW as far as losing experience..maybe that would happen..or maybe NOT as you think. There also might be other officials from college who might like that...so?? I am sure there will be many who would wish to become full time NFL officials. (More on the whole experience thing later..)
    b-----And because other officials in another sport are NOT good as full time..that means what?? Reallly nothing at all. Compare apples and oranges..it doesn't work.
    c----I don't buy stats like that and then Go WOW they are doing a great job!! Each official looks at certain things and there are always mistakes in games..but it has MORE to do with consistency than things not called..and such. And it is amazing that so many calls are right..that is good. And I will mention other things later..but I am not GLOWING in praise for officials in the NFL..BAD calls?? Many many more than just 4 5 a week..I would bet there are plenty that are not mentioned in every game..and as much of the calls is the non calls and the timing of them.
    d---As to yout BS...what happened in the Jets game was PURE embarrassment to anyone who CARES about the game..Vrabel gets called for holding..while Law holds Moss and gets NO flag at all?? Are you going to tell me if the officials are given film training as to what IS holding and what is not..that this would still happen?? Apprently there are officials on the same crew who call things differently NOT EVEN other crews. Where is there any consistency?
    Don't change the game?? Football HAS been changing over the many years did you not notice??? And the ONE PART that has not changed a bit except for replay has been the officials..They are still back in the middle 20th century with the way they have chains..that is so so silly... I would do a lot more to help officials..more with video and replays..even having some look at things ongoing throughout the game. Maybe games would be a BIT longer.10-15 minutes...but if it mean that much MORE calls were correct...I think fans would want that. And I do think having full time officials would improve things..at least they might be on the same page as far as what is or is NOT pass interference..what holding is and many other things..if officials look at and see many things I THINK they'll have chances to get it right in games. There might be other things they could do in the offseason to improve as well. But I also think technology COULD play a bit more into this...but NONE of this has been looked at by the NFL. Making officials full time is only part of it...making use of what they can learn in the offseason IS MORE what is important.
    And as far as experience goes..get officials into a boot camp for a month of intensive study..meeting talking about the rules and interpretations and I guarantee things will be better..THAT IS if teh NFL is really committed to improvement in this area.
    Look at teh embarrassment in the Steeler-Seahawk SB??? There were so many bad calls and non calls it was ridiculous?
    It's part of the game...so one doesn't do anything to improve it?? Injuries are a part of the game...so you don't do anything to lessen it?? Pretty dumb...
  12. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    11-5 prediction is a bit on the homeristic side

    Pittsburgh,Arizona,Buffalo at home and 1 of the 2 road games will be tough - Doubt we will win 4 of those which is what you need to be 11-5

    9-7 and out of the playoffs or 10-6 and as the #5 or #6 seed is the best case scenerio at this time
  13. SIMON_D

    SIMON_D Rookie

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    I agree with PATRIOTSSFANINPA; winning 4 of those is going to be a tall order.
  14. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Ken is probably the last person in this forum you should lecture about lack of first-hand knowledge.

    The worst you can accuse him of is extrapolating from a prior generation to the present.
  15. Krugman

    Krugman Rookie

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    PFK,your "idle " thoughts are much deeper and analytical than mine,which makes for a very good post,thanks....
  16. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some rant. I can compare apples & oranges, though, and not even consume alcohol to do it.
  17. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    Oh..really...sorry..in that case, he's got an ax to grind..which makes what he says even more BS in my opinion. a bit of conflict of interest?? No? How about how the officials messed up the end of the Pitts game? really KNOWING the rules?? Pathe Frankly..these little cliques of officials prorecting themselves do nothing to help themselves..One day the NFL will do something about officials...because they will be forced to as they will be losing credibility...Maybe this is the year...but more than not, Goodell will do zero. Let Perreira lie some more...and see nothing wrong as he usually does. It's a JOKE!!!
  18. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Did you lose money on the Steelers game? I'm just curious because you seem so mad.
  19. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I wish I had that much time for idle thoughts, let alone writing them down.
  20. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    Stop wasting your time on stuff like this then. ;)
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