PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Idle thoughts - this and that....


Status
Not open for further replies.

patfanken

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
15,523
Reaction score
27,524
Just some thoughts in general going into the weekend on a number of issues.

1. Trying to make some sense of the Cannon signing. As you will remember there wasn't anyone on this board more gung ho to have Cannon start at RG than I was....and have been for 3 full years. ;). And no one is more surprised at the massive failure of this experiment than I. In fact the overall poor level of play of Marcus Cannon thus far this year has been both my biggest surprise and disappointment. His play at OT was actually quite good after Volmer went down, so this perceived slide in year 4 is almost shocking to me.

I finally read an explanation that made sense to me as to why he struggled so much at G. It had always seemed to me that OT was the harder position, as it needed more speed and athleticism. Add Cannon's size and reported strength, moving to OG seemed like a slam dunk. It should have been a position change that would make it easier for him to pass block, and play to his power and quick feet in the run game. Well it didn't happen and the only logical explanation why it failed was an issue of processing the increased speed and activity you get when you play inside.

On the outside, although you play against the other team's best DLmen and LB's, they are generally only coming at you from one direction, while the G's and C's have DT's DE, and LB's flying all over the place. I can only assume that Cannon was unable to process all this activity fast enough to utilize his athletic skills. Maybe if he had spent an entire off season prepping to play OG his play would improve, because from all reports he's supposed to be a smart kid. But the fact that Volmer was coming off a serious injury, he also was tasked with being the primary swing T, it ended up that he hasn't seemed to have done ANYTHING well this season. So like most of you while I hoped his play would improve, I fully expected this to be Marcus Cannon's final year with the Pats.

Now I'm being forced to try and figure out why against all perceived evidence he was re-signed. I have 4 options. I can figure it out. Fans can speculate, Mediots/"experts" can pontificate...... OR, I can let BB tell me. And what BB is telling me is that Marcus Cannon's contribution is far bigger than we on the outside can perceive, or are being allowed to perceive. He's telling us that he IS a capable starting OT if need be. That he IS a capable contributor at OG and TE. Ultimately BB is telling us that there IS a reason why it seems Marcus Cannon isn't performing at the level we saw last year, AND that he strongly believes that he will be performing at least well enough the next 2 years to justify that contract

Trying to speculate that the signing is some kind of master manipulation of Solder and/or Volmer might be entertaining, but in the end its merely a mind game, just as trying to figure out what that 2 year $9MM deal actually means in real money. In the end, BB has been around offensive linemen since back in the day when the OL actually used their shoulder pads and fired out, not up. Not saying that BB hasn't made his share of personnel decisions (its the nature of the game), but I'm willing to GUARANTEE that at THIS point in time, his reasoning to pay Cannon whatever he paid him is based on sounder and more reasoned evidence than what we have at this point.

2. Nate Solder: Another mystery that makes me go hmmmmm. Think about it. Here is our franchise LT who leads the OL in penalties and in occasional games looks to be more of a problem than the solution, and is heading into a critical contract year. But look at it another way. The OL (including Solder and Volmer, has given up only 16 sacks this year in 13 games while at the same time last year gave up 36. The running game is marginally better as well as the overall passing game. The team leads the league in redzone scoring, and among the leaders in scoring and passing efficiency. And all this after starting the season with the offense's 4 worse performances when the OL was in total disarray.

Yet all we do is complain about our OL, and chief among them, Nat Solder. IIRC Solder had a good rookie year, a better 2nd year as a full time starter and last year I would say he was a top 15- LT on an OL that was part of a an offense going through a very difficult year with injuries and a total transition at WR. I would admit that Solder has been awfully inconsistent this season. We all saw the 3-4 plays where Ingram manhandled him in the first half, and we all classically ignored the 2nd half were for the most part Solder owned him.

Think about this: If we assume (which is a dangerous thing to do) that Bedard's number of 11 negative plays for Solder is correct. ( Which will include the plays Ingram illegally used hands to his face as a weapon, and any plays that actually might not be his mistake and Bedard wouldn't know, and penalties
) That would mean essentially that Solder won on the other 63 plays the offense ran If Brady was successful 63 of 74 plays he'd be player of the week. Solder does it and he's the first one we think of when we're looking for a thumbs down.

My point is that to my mind we tend to rate our offensive linemen so much differently and unfairly than all the rest of the players. Again, using the faulty PFF numbers, last season, Wendell was routinely criticized as a total failure for allowing just 5% of his snaps result sacks hits or hurries. That's a 95% success rate. Yet if you had a pass rusher who managed even a 10% success rate at creating sacks hits and hurries, he'd make the pro bowl. :eek:

I'm not saying don't criticize him. I want him to do better. In fact, I expect him to do better. Just please acknowledge that you understand the inherent unfairness in how we grade offensive linemen compared to other positions.

3. I really want to smack these self appointed proponents of safety and the "rules" right in the mouth. They can spin the fact that Browner's shoulder was "near" Green's neck or brushed his helmet, and you would still never convince he that was a penalty. If the object of the rules is to make the defensive player question how he will make a hit and hesitate, then just give them the flags now. If the object is to blow out 10+ knees per team/per year, then keep it up. If the object of the rules is to force the defensive player to put HIS head in a basically unsafe position in order not to make hard hits on offensive players, then well done.

If the league REALLY gave a crap about safety they'd penalize players who had their heads down when tackling. Penalized players who launched rather than ran through ball carriers. Actually allowed technology to catch up to helmet design. And finally stopped whining about every time extraordinarily well paid athletes are injured in a collision sport played by highly players who have grown too big, strong and fast for their bodies.

Want to stop a lot of concussions.....simple. Put a 250lb limit on the players. Fewer injuries to go along with a faster and better game.

4. OT - If you want to blame the Red Sox for low balling Lester back in last March, fine. It was an error. 5 years and 100MM would have probably done the job. Kick them all you want for THAT. However for what went on afterward., the trade and subsequent negotiation, the endless self serving battering is starting to drive me nuts. The Sox offered a more than competitive deal at $135. The Cubs simply hit it out of the ball park at 150. To go that high would have been irresponsible. Theo was in an entirely different situation. He not only needed an ace, he need someone to change the culture. Its still not a smart financial move (unless your name is John Lester), but you could make a special case for it for the Cubs

This ends my baseball commentary for the year. BTW- IMHO, the Sox are in much better shape at this point of the season than they were back 2 years ago......before they won the World Series. Football isn't the only sport that focuses way too much on the big names instead of solid team building. Something we as Pats fans should know better than most.

5. I love how this team is being build for the next 4 years. You can't have great depth at ever position, but the Pats are starting to look like a team that's coming as close as you can humanly be possible. This thread has gone on too long already to go into detail, but when you start to look over this roster. Think about who's on it now, and who can be added, there aren't many holes. Before we go into the draft, we can have a championship caliber offense and defense. Next year's draft will be fully luxury draft. Truly a chance to draft for long term quality than the usual quantity. Roster spots will be at a premium

6. I really wish the AFCE would start to get some respect. The Bills have as good a defense as therre is in the league, and the Dolphins have a 70% completion QB as well as one of the best front 7's in the league. Both have winning records this late in the season. How many division have 3 teams over .500.
 
Last edited:
How many division have 3 teams over .500.

If you meant "3 or more", then half of them do. The other three of those each have an aggregate conference record over .500, unlike the AFC East, as does one of the divisions with only 2 teams over .500. So the AFC East, with its aggregate record of .500, seems rather middle-of-the-pack. :)
 
2 additional quick thoughts. There is a very real possibility that the Pats are going to have THREE different receiver catch over 1000 yds this season. Right now Gronk is about 3 yds short, Edelman is about 120 short, and LaFell around 240 Gronk and Julian are locks, and LaFell needs just one 100 yd game to give himself a good shot. There are a few teams who will have 2 guys over 1000, I doubt there will be 3.

I wouldn't have mentioned this if that Brady article in SI hadn't come out, but the fact is, relatively, the Pats have had one of their better seasons injury wise thus far (knock on wood, cross fingers, and every other good luck ritual) I read that there are a lot of Pats going to his guru and working out. I wonder if this could be part of the reason. Or it could be that its just the laws of averages working out. Whatever it is, its working.
 
If you meant "3 or more", then half of them do. The other three of those each have an aggregate conference record over .500, unlike the AFC East, as does one of the divisions with only 2 teams over .500. So the AFC East, with its aggregate record of .500, seems rather middle-of-the-pack. :)
Middle of the pack is fine. I just hate hearing the division being referred to as the Pats and 3 tomato cans.
 
Your point number 3 resonates in a big big way Ken. The NFL cares little about player safety. What the league cares about is making money. Lots of money. And anything that stands in the way of making a lot of money has to be "fixed". The biggest threat to the owners right now is the concussion issue and the massive amounts of money that the league could stand to lose from the class action lawsuit. The concussion issue is to the NFL what the class action suits were to big tobacco.
When the NFL helped to kill the ESPN doc on concussions, it told us all we really need to know about what the NFL owners really think about player safety. They just don't care about it and nothing is allowed to get in the way of all that money coming in to the league.
So new rules have to be adopted in the name of "player safety" to protect the league from future concussion suits. These new rules translate directly to way more shredded knees (See Gronk last year) but shredded knees, while a shame, don't in any way threaten the leagues ability to make and keep as much money as possible.
I love the game and the Patriots franchise. The owners, including Kraft, and the league bureaucracy (Goddell and their Madison Ave lawyers) not so much.
 
On the Cannon thing:

I don't think we fans appreciate how much NFL front office types value a 3rd swing tackle. Marcus Cannon has proven production as a swing tackle and is probably better than many starting tackles. Once I understood the value in the position, I'm not at all surprised that Cannon was resigned. A team would be nuts to not try to keep an adequate swing tackle.

A similar analogy can be made to Arrington. We all said, "say what?" when he was extended. But, the third CB/slot CB is now a starter on NFL teams, playing nickle packages most of the time. Again not surprising Bellichick would pay a third CB.
 
Just some thoughts in general going into the weekend on a number of issues.

1. Trying to make some sense of the Cannon signing. As you will remember there wasn't anyone on this board more gung ho to have Cannon start at RG than I was....and have been for 3 full years. ;). And no one is more surprised at the massive failure of this experiment than I. In fact the overall poor level of play of Marcus Cannon thus far this year has been both my biggest surprise and disappointment. His play at OT was actually quite good after Volmer went down, so this perceived slide in year 4 is almost shocking to me.

I finally read an explanation that made sense to me as to why he struggled so much at G. It had always seemed to me that OT was the harder position, as it needed more speed and athleticism. Add Cannon's size and reported strength, moving to OG seemed like a slam dunk. It should have been a position change that would make it easier for him to pass block, and play to his power and quick feet in the run game. Well it didn't happen and the only logical explanation why it failed was an issue of processing the increased speed and activity you get when you play inside.

On the outside, although you play against the other team's best DLmen and LB's, they are generally only coming at you from one direction, while the G's and C's have DT's DE, and LB's flying all over the place. I can only assume that Cannon was unable to process all this activity fast enough to utilize his athletic skills. Maybe if he had spent an entire off season prepping to play OG his play would improve, because from all reports he's supposed to be a smart kid. But the fact that Volmer was coming off a serious injury, he also was tasked with being the primary swing T, it ended up that he hasn't seemed to have done ANYTHING well this season. So like most of you while I hoped his play would improve, I fully expected this to be Marcus Cannon's final year with the Pats.

Now I'm being forced to try and figure out why against all perceived evidence he was re-signed. I have 4 options. I can figure it out. Fans can speculate, Mediots/"experts" can pontificate...... OR, I can let BB tell me. And what BB is telling me is that Marcus Cannon's contribution is far bigger than we on the outside can perceive, or are being allowed to perceive. He's telling us that he IS a capable starting OT if need be. That he IS a capable contributor at OG and TE. Ultimately BB is telling us that there IS a reason why it seems Marcus Cannon isn't performing at the level we saw last year, AND that he strongly believes that he will be performing at least well enough the next 2 years to justify that contract

Trying to speculate that the signing is some kind of master manipulation of Solder and/or Volmer might be entertaining, but in the end its merely a mind game, just as trying to figure out what that 2 year $9MM deal actually means in real money. In the end, BB has been around offensive linemen since back in the day when the OL actually used their shoulder pads and fired out, not up. Not saying that BB hasn't made his share of personnel decisions (its the nature of the game), but I'm willing to GUARANTEE that at THIS point in time, his reasoning to pay Cannon whatever he paid him is based on sounder and more reasoned evidence than what we have at this point.

3. I really want to smack these self appointed proponents of safety and the "rules" right in the mouth. They can spin the fact that Browner's shoulder was "near" Green's neck or brushed his helmet, and you would still never convince he that was a penalty. If the object of the rules is to make the defensive player question how he will make a hit and hesitate, then just give them the flags now. If the object is to blow out 10+ knees per team/per year, then keep it up. If the object of the rules is to force the defensive player to put HIS head in a basically unsafe position in order not to make hard hits on offensive players, then well done.

If the league REALLY gave a crap about safety they'd penalize players who had their heads down when tackling. Penalized players who launched rather than ran through ball carriers. Actually allowed technology to catch up to helmet design. And finally stopped whining about every time extraordinarily well paid athletes are injured in a collision sport played by highly players who have grown too big, strong and fast for their bodies.

Want to stop a lot of concussions.....simple. Put a 250lb limit on the players. Fewer injuries to go along with a faster and better game.

6. I really wish the AFCE would start to get some respect. The Bills have as good a defense as therre is in the league, and the Dolphins have a 70% completion QB as well as one of the best front 7's in the league. Both have winning records this late in the season. How many division have 3 teams over .500.


1)"Trying to make some sense of the Cannon signing"
- - - We don't see Cannon in practice the way BB and Staff see him. Considering market prices it isn't wildly inconceivable BB felt the dollar value for Cannon's performance/flexibility/possible remaining upside was an acceptable value

2) The league is completely reactive to media/public perception. So, in a bit of shocking news, when an organization creates rules/laws and makes important decisions based on the mob mentality perceptions of the organization, these rules/laws/important decisions result in error, dysfunction and inefficiency.

6) "I really wish the AFCE would start to get some respect".
- - - The Patriots have owned the Division title almost unending (they've beaten Buffalo something like 847 times in a row). It's hard for other teams in the division to get that most solid level of respect when the divisional descriptions of those teams are never better than 'hey! they were a heck of a runner up this year compared to the last 5".
 
As bad as things appear on the O line... this is significant.. but another factor that is not attributed to O line play is that Brady looks quicker, it would not account for 20 less sacks, but could be a factor.

Guess it was ok to move Mankins... as Stork could not be solely accountable for the success of this unit.. also guess that Dave DeGuglielmo filled the big shoes of Scar.

The OL (including Solder and Volmer, has given up only 16 sacks this year in 13 games while at the same time last year gave up 36. The running game is marginally better as well as the overall passing game. The team leads the league in redzone scoring, and among the leaders in scoring and passing efficiency. And all this after starting the season with the offense's 4 worse performances when the OL was in total disarray.
 
With the title of your post I thought you and Zues had collaborated on a post.

Speaking of Zeus, where has he been?

Apologies (in advance) if this hijacks the thread.
 
I honestly thought Cannon to guard was going to be similar to Robert Gallery or Leonard Davis who went from first rounders who were labeled busts to very productive players. I think Davis even made an All NFL 2nd team at one point.

The prospect of Cannon playing LT scares the crap out of me. Tom Brady might not see 38 never mind the pie in the sky 48 from the zen article of this week. The only thing I can figure is it's insurance and a shot across the bow to Solder of we're not going to pay you 7M even for a year because we don't think the value is there so if you won't resign at less we are prepared to move on. I haven't looked at the structure of the Cannon deal but I imagine it's so the team could cut him still at a minimal penalty if he doesn't perform of if Solder comes in at a rate that is proportionate to the value the team has assigned him.

There also is the possibility he would still play RT and Vollmer would move back across. Given Vollmer's injury history I think they're playing with fire twice. When the season is over and I start evaluating draft picks I think putting some time into the tackle position will be needed.
 
Just some thoughts in general going into the weekend on a number of issues.

Agree with the general thoughts. Always a pleasure to read. How long has it been since you started theses?

Some additional items:

Cannon: The flurry of discussion generated (on this Board) by a back-up's extension may not be completely warranted, but that's another story. While he's been unsuccessful in his bid for Guard duties, he is relevant as our primary back-up Tackle. The team may groom Fleming to a similar role, but right now, he's our best back-up OT with a pair of incumbent starting Tackles who historically are not durable. Nevertheless, the money from the deal is surprising.

As an aside, Marcus Cannon's failed attempt in the interior O-Line casts another blemish on our records as GM-critics. It's not that the NEP front-office, headed by BB, are unerring, but our judgment is lacking and our knowledge is...deprived.
 
Last edited:
Offensive Line: Offensive linemen have always been judged unfairly by fans and the media--with one exception being the Hall. Perhaps it's part "loss aversion" effect. However, it cannot be under-stated how important an O-Line is. How many times do we reflect on losses of playoffs-past where we identify a faltering O-Line? Teams that win the Superbowl generally have impactful front 7's, where a defense to the onslaughts are critical.

Consider the unheralded NY Jets of 2009 and 2010. While they also had great defenses and special teams, their O-Line was the singular bright spot and source of redemption on the Offense. A great offensive line hides weaknesses while a poor performance stymies offensive output.

If we lose in the post-season, what are the odds we reflect on a poor O-Line showing?
 
1. In Bill I Trust (this time).
2. I got into the pro Solder/pro OL group once I recovered from my Mankins shock.
3. I think you might be lumping together a few different types that you want to smack in the mouth. I feel that it was a borderline hit that could have easily been delivered without being close to a penalty. That's all.
3(a). I was so glad to see Brandon Merriweather out of here just because of those hits with the crown of the helmet. Those are the plays that really get under my skin and make me want to smack that person in the mouth. Totally cheap and dirty. Browner's hit was clean.
4. Both football and baseball were in my blood when I was a young man. MLB lost me a long time ago though.
5. Think Chuck Noll.
6. Overall records are meaningless in determining a team's true strength due to the drastic difference in schedules all teams play.
 
The thing that drives me effing crazy about the Browner call is the "defenseless receiver" label... The runner has taken 4 steps and turned his body while running (I actually think he sees Browner coming...) and chose to not protect himself in favor of trying to complete the catch.

The DB should not be tasked with determining if a catch is completed after "periods of time" when the ball has reached the receiver (the rules are no longer about "football moves"; they are about a "period of time"): it's the refs job to determine possession, not the DB. Meaning: a clean catch, and this would not be a penalty because the receiver had the ball for a *couple* "periods of time" before contact. You cannot coach players to react to bobbles.
 
Once again some great topics for discussion that obviously require comment. That plus my wife has given me a long list of honey-do's so another way to procrastinate.

Cannon and Oline
Surprised as anyone and until the numbers are verified, I won't comment on the value. I can only assume that he's been graded well but I still think he's a utility guy and at best a right tackle. I'll be curious to see what if any trickle effect this has on expiring contracts and the make-up of the line next year. If God forbid this team falters, the Oline will likely be the perceived culprit since it really is the achilles heel of the offense and gradings throughout the regular season won't matter if they give up some critical sacks or the running game goes nowhere in the playoffs. Or on the flip side, say they win the SB and the Oline is solid during the stretch (very plausible). Where does this leave Connelly and Wendell whose contracts expire I believe. The market value would presumably go up not just because of their individual play but the intangible value of playing for a SB winner and the perceived leadership and dedication qualities that come with it.
Either way, we could see an overhaul next year but so be it, deal with it when and if it happens. I'm enjoying the 2014 season too much to worry about that.

Safety rules
The NFL doesn't have this right. I understand the premise and the attempt but you can't have controversy over calls even if the call is consistent with the rule. When a rule is overly written and lacks specific clarity, this ambiguity leads to so called experts and fans to express opinions whose basis of fact is false simply because they either don't understand the rule or the rule allows for too widespread interpretation. What exactly is the "neck" area? 2 inches below the neck, 3 inches? How in the world does an official make a call using that as a guideline that happens in an instant and then that call is not subject to review! Terrible application and for me presents the strongest argument for both redefining the rule and/or subjecting it to the challenge system.

AFC East
It needs winning records and playoff appearances to be recognized as a good division. The winning records could happen this year with Miami and Buffalo but all three teams can look at their QB's and realize that to compete against New England over the course of the season, they need top 10 QB's and where are they going to find them. I laughed at the quote by Geno Smith when he said at times he's played at a pro bowl level. Now not knowing the context of the question or response, consistently strong performances and absolutely minimal poor performances is what defines a top QB. Furthermore, measuring yourself based on a stupid pro bowl appearance or votes is such a me-me perspective. How about measuring yourself firstly based on wins and losses and then how your performance in critical situations contributed to those wins and losses.
Its one reason why I never considered Brees to be in the same category as Brady. He makes way too many mistakes and I lost so much respect for him when he set the record for most consecutive games with a TD pass and he celebrated like he had just advanced to the SB. I mean what a completely overrated stat for this current era. Unitas' mark was far more impressive.

Ok, I'm starting to get some mean looks and tonight is supposed to be date night so I better not blow it.
 
I don't think we fans appreciate how much NFL front office types value a 3rd swing tackle. Marcus Cannon has proven production as a swing tackle and is probably better than many starting tackles. Once I understood the value in the position, I'm not at all surprised that Cannon was resigned. A team would be nuts to not try to keep an adequate swing tackle.

A similar analogy can be made to Arrington. We all said, "say what?" when he was extended. But, the third CB/slot CB is now a starter on NFL teams, playing nickle packages most of the time. Again not surprising Bellichick would pay a third CB.

I agree with this. I think an Akeem Ayers extension will fall into the Arrington/Cannon range - pay him like an important rotational player capable of starting, but not a top tier starter. LaFell's deal also fell into this range, though he's outplayed it.
 
Offensive Line: Offensive linemen have always been judged unfairly by fans and the media--with one exception being the Hall. Perhaps it's part "loss aversion" effect. However, it cannot be under-stated how important an O-Line is. How many times do we reflect on losses of playoffs-past where we identify a faltering O-Line? Teams that win the Superbowl generally have impactful front 7's, where a defense to the onslaughts are critical.

Consider the unheralded NY Jets of 2009 and 2010. While they also had great defenses and special teams, their O-Line was the singular bright spot and source of redemption on the Offense. A great offensive line hides weaknesses while a poor performance stymies offensive output.

If we lose in the post-season, what are the odds we reflect on a poor O-Line showing?

I think the Pats are overhauling the OL, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is very good in 2015.

Think about the DB group. It was historically bad in 2011 and the first half of 2012. The Talib trade and the move of McCourty to safety started the improvement, and I predicted at the time that it could become very good, but it took time. It was better than average last year, as long as Talib was healthy. This year it's top-2 with the additions of Revis and Browner.

Last year's OL was a sieve. The Pats added 2 day 3 rookies who look like long term keepers in Stork and Fleming. A coaching change and the Mankins trade also shook things up. It's a work in progress. But it's still been a lot better than last year's line.

I'm not sure why Solder's struggled so much at times. Possible reasons include (1) the loss of Mankins, (2) technique changes, (3) adapting to new coaching, and (4) the effect of multiple concussions. The last one scares me, but the first 3 are correctable over time. I trust the Pats to know what they have in Solder, and make the right decision.

I think Brady still has several more good years left, and having a good line in front of him will help extend his career. If I were the FO, that's where I'd invest in the offense. I think we'll see 2 more linemen this draft - a day 1/2 prospect and a late day 2/early day 3 prospect would be my guess.
 
The AFC East played the AFC West (Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs) and the NFC North (Lions, Packers, meh Bears) this year.

They didn't get to play the NFC South or the AFC South (which is why the AFC north is so competitive this year, as they played both of those terrible divisions). That makes a difference.

On Cannon/Solder, etc...the biggest problem the Pats have is that you can't get a good left tackle at the bottom of the first round. The blue chips at that position go in the top 10-15. So you have to lay out HUGE $$$$$ to get a good one.

That's why Solder and Vollmer, and by extension, Cannon (covering in at RT) are so valuable to the Pats.

Also, watching Fleming playing the in-line TE, he might just be quick enough to play G next year. Admittedly - CAVEAT - I don't know much about line play.
 
On Cannon/Solder, etc...the biggest problem the Pats have is that you can't get a good left tackle at the bottom of the first round. The blue chips at that position go in the top 10-15. So you have to lay out HUGE $$$$$ to get a good one.

That's why Solder and Vollmer, and by extension, Cannon (covering in at RT) are so valuable to the Pats.

Also, watching Fleming playing the in-line TE, he might just be quick enough to play G next year. Admittedly - CAVEAT - I don't know much about line play.

Of the better NFL LTs:

- Joe Thomas - #3 overall in 2007
- Joe Staley - #28 overall in 2007
- Ryan Clady - #12 overall in 2008
- Duane Brown - #26 overall in 2008
- Jared Veldheer - #69 overall in 2010
- Tyron Smith - #9 overall in 2011

That doesn't include Jake Long (#1 overall in 2008; his likely successor Greg Robinson was #2 overall in 2014), Trent Williams (#4 overall in 2010), Russell Okung (#6 overall in 2010) and Eugene Monroe (#8 overall in 2009). Jason Peters was originally a UDFA, but he's the exception.

Staley and Brown were great finds in the late 1st round, but most tackles taken outside of the top 20 have either ended up as guards (Bryan Bulaga, Riley Reiff, Gabe Carimi) or as busts (Carimi, Derek Sherrod).

Speaking of Sherrod, the Pats had him in for a look, and I still think he could be a good reclamation project. The other guy of interest is former Houston 3rd round pick Brennan Williams, who the Pats had rated very highly in 2013. He had microfracture surgery. The Pats (and several other teams) were reportedly monitoring his physical status closely.
 
The AFC East played the AFC West (Broncos, Chargers, Chiefs) and the NFC North (Lions, Packers, meh Bears) this year.

Good point. It's a .500 division playing somewhat above-average opponents.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/19: News and Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Back
Top