Idle thoughts - the you can't win edition.

[PScottman]

I hope we get the down Fitz rather than the up Fitz

"Nah, he got the upside, I got the downside. See there's two sides to every Schwartz."

 

[patfanken]

Damn impressive, Ken. I'm jealous. Just what the hell kind of brain supplements are you taking? Every week I get more senile while you seem to be just hitting your prime. I think I'll re-read your post and see if I can jump start some of my dormant brain cells....

I just use this thread as an exercise to fend off senility, test my memory, and reinforce my cognitive skills. Based on a few of the comments, I have failed on all three. .

It still bothers the **** out of me when a player's name or phrase that's on the tip of my tongue fails to make the final leap to the keyboard. I struggled for more than a few minutes for Earl Thomas' name, and originally wrote in "seattle's safeties", when I got tired to waiting for it to come, then about an hour later as I got toward the end of the post, it suddenly came into my head, just a quickly and mysteriously as it went. It really sucks getting old.

 

[patfanken]

Ken, I'm starting to think the Pats zone issue is a combination of both the safety and LB play. I think you're right on the safeties' reading and closing ability. I haven't been looking specifically, but has anyone else noticed how the LBs are dropping into the intermediate area - are they getting deep enough to force higher throws and smaller completion windows to facilitate the safeties doing just what you describe successfully or are they getting "stuck" too shallow allowing the WRs to flatten out their routes below the zone look for easier completions?

On this particular play, I think there was a LB dropping, but the other receivers routes were designed to keep most of the coverage wide, so when the crosser gets into the route the QB can make his throw once the receiver clears that middle underneath cover guy.

No the play went kind of perfectly for both sides, I think. The Jets just executed better. To stop that play, the Safety would have had to read the route and more aggressively attack it. Harmon, instead, stayed deep and THEN reacted to the throw, but it was too late. Harmon actually didn't do anything wrong. By rule he had the deep middle zone and is supposed to stay deep until the QB commits to the throw and then react. What I'd like to see is a more aggressive view of these "rules".

If you remember the clip where Brady and BB are discussing Ed Reed and how instinctual he is. Well instinctual is another way of saying, he has studied the patterns, and trusts what he studied, ANTICIPATES what the offense is trying to do and attacks the route. That's what Ed Reed would do. That is what I want Harmon to aspire to.

Now I don't want the secondary to all of a sudden become risk takers in the Assante Samuel vein. I just want them to tighten it up a bit more, so instead of 100% surity no one will get deep. Believe what your eyes are telling you and lower to 85%.

 

[patfanken]

I think I'm done reading these until you grow up and stop hating on James White. He's broken a lot of tackles and gained almost all of his yards after the catch.

How can I trust your analysis is worth salt when you're wrong about James White week after week?

PS: Lewis is not faster than White. Lewis is just better at changing directions, which we didn't need on the two point conversion attempt.

Sorry if I offended you with my White comments. I really don't mean to hate on him. In some respects he's been an ideal player in that he is very dependable guy who has maximized his strengths, and to some degree, improved on his weaknesses. How can you hate an over achiever.

But his weakness as a RB is obvious to anyone, and, for the most part, his catches and runs end when the first guy gets to him. And while he is better than in his first few years, its still not good. And given what we know about him and the fact Lewis was available, it seemed odd that he was player they went to on that 2 point conversion attempt.

Are you saying that given the choice, you would have given to ball to White over Lewis in THAT circumstance? That is all I was saying in the OP.

 

[patfanken]

Brady is going for the all QB wins record in 30 fewer games than Manning), don't think BB is unaware of this, though he won't risk an injury, Brady will play.

SO the jump cut Lewis made yesterday against the Jets, was reminiscent of Barry Sanders. Barry didn't have overwhelming straight line speed (check his combine 40 time) but had great change of direction and 'game speed'. Lewis is an injury prone poor man Barry Sanders. Bring his along slowly he is a game changer in the playoffs with the cold weather. I would love to see him healthy in the playoffs.

I loved Mitchell's comments after the game where he took ownership for missing a tough catch in the end zone rather than taking credit for the game winning TD catch.

Sanders was 4.6 guy in the 40 IIRC. Great RB's aren't really about the speed, its more about the ACCELERATION. What made Sanders so great was that he could go from zero to maximum faster than anyone I can remember. When you watch great RB's now and see how they get by people and make them miss, its all about the acceleration coming out of the cut.

 

[EddardSnow67]

Sanders was 4.6 guy in the 40 IIRC. Great RB's aren't really about the speed, its more about the ACCELERATION. What made Sanders so great was that he could go from zero to maximum faster than anyone I can remember. When you watch great RB's now and see how they get by people and make them miss, its all about the acceleration coming out of the cut.

Sanders was more in the 4.4 range early in his career. He definitely had slowed down after a few years, though, so the point still stands.

 

[PScottman]

Now I don't want the secondary to all of a sudden become risk takers in the Assante Samuel vein. I just want them to tighten it up a bit more, so instead of 100% surity no one will get deep. Believe what your eyes are telling you and lower to 85%.

This goes to the thoughts I've had that the defense adopted some bad early tendencies with large leads that have yet to resolve themselves. Harmon has been a good (not great) anticipator in past years (the pick he made vs the Ravens a couple years ago to close out the game was one such more "reaction" type play) as an example.

However, this year the defensive mantra seems to have morphed into zero risk instead of calculated risk and I can't put my finger on any other potential "why" given many of these players in past years were a more balanced aggression typology.

It's puzzling.

 

[deroc5050]

Good performance by the defense today. Kept the team in the game while the offense was inept. Though the poor offensive performance was to be expected, given the injuries to Brady and Gronk.

I agree with this, because that's what happend but.. if the defense didn't get those turn overs I am not sure we win this game. What Fitzpatrick did this game and why he was more successful than some of his other games, he checked down to his backs and tight ends, rather than trying to force the ball down field to Marshal or Enunya or w/e his name is.

The Offense is the reason the game was so close, they just couldn't it going.

 

[bobbutts]

I can't watch in real time anymore due to all the ads. I use the DVR and start watching 30 min late, catch up before halftime and repeat for the 2nd half. Just make sure to make the recording go an hour or more after the end of the event in case of an overtime game. It's the worst to have it cutoff at the end.

 

[willard]

Big props to our Defensive tackles Branch, Brown and Valentine. I saw all 3 make very impactful plays

Edelman was real big and Brady really needed him.

Blount has always been fast in the open, but this year he looks much faster.

Surprised Amendola continues to be on a limited snap count.

Mitchell; I had read about his hands, but those are catchers mitts right there. He impresses every time he gets a chance. So long as health stays, he looks to get real good.

White, why didn't he fling himself at the goal line instead of taking it all the way on the run. He had it easy on a dive. Oh well, learning experience.

Butler gave up some plays, but he still was a big. No doubt, the man can ball. Glad he will be on our team for a long time.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Yes, but the key is the ball never crossed the plane before his foot went out of bounds. Here's the still again:

I was responding to the Hurley post above that appeared to suggest that the ball did not need to cross the plane if the player stepped into the endzone. The ball needed to cross the plane if the player was airborne (i.e. a pylon play).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I was responding to the Hurley post above that appeared to suggest that the ball did not need to cross the plane if the player stepped into the endzone. The ball needed to cross the plane if the player was airborne (i.e. a pylon play).

Hurley and/or the guy responding to him are confused.

The ball ALWAYS has to cross the plane for any TD to be scored.

The airborne vs. non-airborne thing is with respect to whether or not the ball has to be inside the pylon or not when it crosses the plane.

• Non-airborne -- can cross the plane of the goalline anywhere, including outside the pylon.
• Airborne -- must cross plane above or inside the pylon.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Yes, but the key is the ball never crossed the plane before his foot went out of bounds. Here's the still again:

That seems conclusive, but the camera also appears to be left of the goal line (which could skew the ball position). If it was wisely set up on the goal line then it would be conclusive.

Glad it didn't decide the game

 

[QuantumMechanic]

That seems conclusive, but the camera also appears to be left of the goal line (which could skew the ball position). If it was wisely set up on the goal line then it would be conclusive.

Glad it didn't decide the game

It's not off by very much since the pylon is almost completely in line with the goalline.

Plus you can see all of White's body. You can see how close to the pylon his foot hit OOB and how all of his body except for his right leg and right arm is to the right of the foot. His shoulders are wider than the distance between foot and pylon and he's holding his ball arm away from his body. No way that ball crossed the plane.

 

[slash83]

I personally would be okay with the number 2 seed if it meant Oakland getting #1 and keeping Denver out.

 

[Sicilian]

I personally would be okay with the number 2 seed if it meant Oakland getting #1 and keeping Denver out.

Yeah, going to Oakland wouldn't bother me too much, especially if we're playing well and only lose out on the #1 seed because Oakland finished strong too.

If we had to go to Denver or Kansas City, I'd feel more nervous because we tend to struggle in those stadiums.

 

[ChessToCheckers]

But his weakness as a RB is obvious to anyone, and, for the most part, his catches and runs end when the first guy gets to him. And while he is better than in his first few years, its still not good. And given what we know about him and the fact Lewis was available, it seemed odd that he was player they went to on that 2 point conversion attempt.

I find the discussion on White interesting. For me, I think of a RB, especially in this modern, pass-happy league, as a guy that can run the ball, pass protect, catch the ball, and SECURE the ball. As with all players, durability is also part of the overall package. If you are good enough in all of these traits, and are improving every year, you are going to be valuable to any team. For the Pats, this versatility is highly desirable in their offense.

White is only in his third year, on an upward trend, and a trusted and valuable part of the offense. I think for some of us, adjectives such as "serviceable" just seems wrong.

Is Lewis a better runner than White? I would say yes. Would I rather have Lewis OR White on the team? If Lewis is at full strength, Lewis. Longer term, it wouldn't surprise me if White has the better career. Bottom line: We have them both!

On that particular play, Lewis might have done better, but who knows? Maybe the defense would have been more wary and stuffed him at the LOS, as they did a couple of times earlier in the game.

Fortunately, White's mistake did not cost us the game. I am guessing that he will learn from that one, especially after they tear him apart in film review!

 

[PScottman]

Maybe the defense would have been more wary and stuffed him at the LOS, as they did a couple of times earlier in the game.

This is an excellent point. The whole concept of misdirection is to make the defense think pass (especially due to personnel) when you plan to run. Lewis does "tip" the defense toward a more balanced thought process while White being in does tend to make most defenses likely think "pass" first.