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Idle thoughts - the pregame speculative edition.


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patfanken

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Lots of thoughts on this game. I can't even decide if its a good idea for them to win. Now I know that sounds crazy, but I have it in the back of my head how often the team that wins the regular season game loses to that team in the playoffs. (most notable examples of this on the positive side were the Rams in 2001, and the on the negative side, the Giants in 2007. but there are many other examples as well with other teams.)

But then when you consider the playoff seed and bye considerations, plus the possible effects of my emotional well being, and the prospect of hearing the unending ball washing of Peyton Manning if the Pats lose, not to mention the hellish schedule we have in the next 5 weeks; it probably would be a good idea if they win on Sunday.......at least for the short term. ;)

There are lots of things to speculate about on the strategic side of this game. Good discussion points that have no correct answers, but lots of different thoughts. It could be just like it is whenever you have to game plan a game after your last one. The only differences between the Pats and every other HS and college football team are the resources and the amount of detailed information the staff have upon which to make their decisions.

I'm pretty sure when the coordinators sit down for their FIRST 6 am meeting on Denver, they will find statistics of every play the Bronco's executed this season. Using whatever system they have, they will have broken down this raw material in any tendencies or patterns. That includes breaking down the multitude of formation into the kinds of plays that are run from this formation or that one, and down and distance tendencies., What the types of routes run, etc, etc. Not only that by the time players start to arrive on Monday, they would have found a disc of all the plays run by the players they are likely to play against that week so they can study at home.

In the meetings they will look for and TRY to find the very subtle indicators that can tell a DLman if the play is a pass or run, or whether a lineman is getting ready to pull, or for a WR, does he tip off when he is ready to make his break on a route. They look for anything that might give them some pre-knowledge.
All that info has been comprised by the dark minions behind the scenes before at FIRST meeting on Monday. Just think about the work necessary to make that happen in such a short time.

You also have to consider that this isn't BB's first go around. They will have gone back and looked at every game he's ever played vs Peyton (probably during the off season) and charted the inevitable tendencies he's shown over the years. They will have gone over how Fox likes to run his defenses against offense like the Pats. So probably on a very basic level they already had a skeleton of a game plan for what they wanted to do against Denver before the season even began. Now its just a matter of seeing what might be new and confirming what past info still applies. What injuries have created new match ups, how they rotate players, and if there are any anomalies that break past tendencies.

As you can see i'ts a MASSIVE amount of potential data, enough to easily create paralysis by analysis if you aren't careful. What makes a great game plan coach is his ability to distill all this data to find the key elements of your opponent and create a game plan that can be implemented in just a few days, yet has the flexibility to adjust if/when you discover that you were wrong about somethings (remember they are paying a lot of guys a lot of money on the other side too. ;) )

I write this just so some of you can understand what a difficult and daunting task it is to prepare for each game given how MUCH information there is and what a short time you have to distill it. Now for the speculations

1. This is how I expect Denver play the Pat's offense:

a. I think they don't want to blitz much since they already have at least 3 top end rushers on their DL. So the Pats will see mostly 4 man rushes.

b. If I were their DC, I'd match Talib up with LaFell and take him out of the game. Its a good match up for Talib which will probably work.

c. I'd take their LB, Marshall (who has a great story, btw) and with Ward try and take Gronk out of the game by being extremely physical and constantly doubled

d. I would trust in my front 7 to stop the run, and force Brady to win a shoot out throwing to Edelman and Amendola

2. How the Pats might respond ( because we ARE speculating)

a. Putting Gronk in motion to free up his release. Or split him outside more to give him more room to release (this also has the side benefit of taking a LB and a S out of run Defense)

b. More routes for Vareen and the other RB's, especially screens.

c. Tim Wright. I'm not sure where he is in his development within this offense, but this would be a great time to see him as a focus, because if he is what we hope he is, he is the one guy who would present a bad match up for Denver when on the field the same time as Gronk

d. We HAVE go be able to run the ball. Right now if I'm the DC, I'm telling my guys to ignore play action (PA) unless or until the Pats have some success in the run game. BTW, it doesn't have be spectacular success, but enough to gain 100 yds on the ground and get those move the chains type plays.

3. How I see the Pats defending the Bronco's offense.

a. Its a daunting task, and any number under 31 would be HUGE.

b. I'd go into this game differently than the past. Historically the Pats have rarely blitzed Manning, and mostly tried to use trap zones against him

c. Making Manning uncomfortable in the pocket is paramount. It;s not an easy thing to do with a good OL and no great individual rushers....but it can be done.....schematically at least. What you can do to create questions is to zone or overload blitz. In that way you can still rush only 4 or 5 players but still create some match up problems for the Bronco's pass defense. Make them waste blockers on players who will be in coverage. What I don't want to see is a standard 4 man rush with occasional twists between the DE and DT.

d. If you can make Manning release the ball quickly, you can narrow the areas of the field that have, to be covered.

e. Show Manning what he expects to see, then give him something else. Look like man, but be in a match up zone. No ONE scheme will work

f. Like Brady, the defense KNOWS where Manning will be and that's one of the few advantage they have. So pressure up the middle is the key. With Manning sacks aren't the goal. Seattle sacked Manning only ONCE in the super bowl. Make him move his feet. Make him go to his first look and most importantly KNOW what that look is likely to be.

g. In man, I'd have Revis on DThomas, Browner on the TE, and Dennard on Sanders, and Arrington on Welker and McCourty playing single high S. On EVERY play I'd align as if we were in this kind of coverage I was in, including moving with a motion man. However there would be a healthy percentage of time where this alignment would morph into a 4 or 5 under match up zone, so When Manning goes to is short crosses and pick plays, he will end up throwing into the strength of the defense.

h. In a game where you want to keep the Denver offense on the sidelines, the question arises how much up tempo offense do you use? Its one of the things the Pats do very well, yet this week it might be counter productive. It will be interesting to see how the Pats play it.

OK that's my plan on these areas' What's yours.

General notes:

1. This could be the premier game of the NFL's regular season. 2 Great teams, 2 great QB, 2 great histories, both with good records. A meaningful game with tons of playoff implications. Yet in its Omnipotent wisdom the NFL assigns Walt Anderson's team to game. :rolleyes: So ultimately this game will NOT be about the Broncos or the Pats, but about the OFFICIALS.

Anderson's team is among the leaders in almost every category of penalties and leads in several. If I were a conspiracy nut, I'd think Peyton personally demanded Anderson work this game. For him, he's ideal.

2. In the same vein, the mediots should start to get that there hasn't been a decline in Revis' game. The difference in EVERY CB's production is they aren't playing the same game they did when Revis Island was created. Last week THREE QB''s threw for over 400 yds. It never happened before.

3. I like that it will be under 40 for the game, but really I doubt it will be much of a factor. HOWEVER, if the WIND winds up being a factor, it will be a big advantage to the Pats, because Manning's passing game is affect by the wind to a much greater degree that Brady.

4. Crowd noise is going to be critical. Its a huge advantage to home team.

5. Lots of words, lots of thoughts. Some provocative, some not so much, but in the end, like most games the game will likely be won or lost by who wins the TO battle, who gets the lucky bounces, and who gets the critical call. :eek:
 
Great post, Ken. There's not much I can add.

I'm thinking, though, the the Patriots will be using a LOT of the 2TE set. That gives them all sorts of options and especially helps in the short yardage and/or running game.
 
Good post...

They are predicting winds of 27 MPH... may impact Domed Manning more than all weather Brady...
 
b. I'd go into this game differently than the past. Historically the Pats have rarely blitzed Manning, and mostly tried to use trap zones against him

c. Making Manning uncomfortable in the pocket is paramount. It;s not an easy thing to do with a good OL and no great individual rushers....but it can be done.....schematically at least. What you can do to create questions is to zone or overload blitz. In that way you can still rush only 4 or 5 players but still create some match up problems for the Bronco's pass defense. Make them waste blockers on players who will be in coverage. What I don't want to see is a standard 4 man rush with occasional twists between the DE and DT.

d. If you can make Manning release the ball quickly, you can narrow the areas of the field that have, to be covered.

e. Show Manning what he expects to see, then give him something else. Look like man, but be in a match up zone. No ONE scheme will work

f. Like Brady, the defense KNOWS where Manning will be and that's one of the few advantage they have. So pressure up the middle is the key. With Manning sacks aren't the goal. Seattle sacked Manning only ONCE in the super bowl. Make him move his feet. Make him go to his first look and most importantly KNOW what that look is likely to be.

g. In man, I'd have Revis on DThomas, Browner on the TE, and Dennard on Sanders, and Arrington on Welker and McCourty playing single high S. On EVERY play I'd align as if we were in this kind of coverage I was in, including moving with a motion man. However there would be a healthy percentage of time where this alignment would morph into a 4 or 5 under match up zone, so When Manning goes to is short crosses and pick plays, he will end up throwing into the strength of the defense.

These are very well thought out points, Ken.
 
Some comments:
  • I still don't know if pressuring Manning is as important as others. The Pats have given him fits without a lot of pressure in the past. It would certainly help (possibly a lot), but I think the Pats can shut down Manning without making him uncomfortable in the pocket if they cannot generate a pass rush.
  • The key to beating Manning is to disrupt the routes of the receivers. That makes Manning uncomfortable as much as anything because he loves to release the ball quickly and throw to where the receiver is going to be when the ball gets there and not necessarily to receiver. The Seahawks did this in the Super Bowl and Manning's throws were way off even when he wasn't pressured.
  • This can be done in zone coverage. I don't expect a lot of man, but I expect to see quite a bit of press zone coverage.
  • I don't know if is going to be all that hard to keep Manning under 31 points. So far in their two road games, they haven't scored that much. They scored 20 points in Seattle and 24 points in the Meadowlands vs. the Jets. They scored 3 points in the first three quarters vs. the Seahawks and punted on 8 of 12 drives vs. the Jets (Four drives went for negative yards while four others were less than 30 yards). I still wonder if the Broncos are a softer road team than at home. We have a small sample size, but in several weeks they could have the same reputation as the Seahawks (unbeatable at home, very beatable on the road).
  • The Broncos have been very susceptible to passes up the seam. Ever since Danny Travathan went down, the Broncos have had no one who can cover consistently up the seam. I expect that it could be a big day for Gronk and Wright.
  • I am looking forward to Simms talk about what a great deep ball passer Manning is if the winds are swirling like expected on Sunday. Manning can throw the deep ball with no problem 5280 feet above sea level in perfect conditions in Denver (as Simms pointed out on Thursday night minus giving any credit to the Denver altitude), but I do not know if he can throw at near sea level in bad weather.
 
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Rob, You make your points well, but I'm not sure I entirely agree. So let me rephrase. What is key is making constantly think that pressure is coming when he gets to the LOS. I want him to look over the D and the last thing he's thinking just before the snape is, "who is my hot read"? Now in order to get him into that thought mode, some times you actually have to come. Now if you LOOK like you are coming ALL the time, you probably only have to actually blitz with some kind of game, only a third of the time.

Now I'm not big blitz guy myself, either by philosophy or temperment. Feast or famine is not a good strategy for wining consistently. However after watch how successful the blitz package Washington threw against the the best OL in the league, I have to admit I was impressed, especially since they have no "elite" pass rushers either.

Now with nothing to lose, Washington blitzed more than I would have, but the key aspect of their scheme was that EVERY time they lined up, it looked like they were coming, even when they weren't. If I were Bill, I would have assigned someone to break down and diagram the DC blitz package and analyze why they worked so well and adapt some of them into my package for this game.

As you pointed out, the Pats have traditionally played multiple zone coverages with Manning with some degree of success. And I know that Bill would rather NOT blitz Manning because he reads it so well and knows where to go with the ball. Plus its hard to get to him because he gets rid of the ball so quickly, much like Brady. All good reasons not to blitz.......
.
...... But, here are a few why. Manning never moved as well in the pocket as Brady, its even worse now. If you blitz him early, you might not have to late, just as long as you look like you are coming. I want to see the Pats start EVERY snap with ten men within 5yds of the LOS. I want to dare him to throw it deep and squeeze out his favorite short routes with 5 man under concepts.

Why the change? Because BB has never had the kind of skill sets and depth he has now in the secondary. Plus we have to play to our strengths which is guys who can man cover. We also have to recognize the realities that the "rules" won't allow us to maximize our strengths, so we have to take more chances.
 
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On offense, this seems like the game for either Wright or Vereen, or both, to win for us .... provided the 5 OL can take care of the 4 Broncos DL.

On defense, hope the Pats DL can stop the run adequately on their own, drop 7 back and confuse coverages, and hope the refs allow the Pats to jam the Broncos receivers up at the LOS.
 
Fantatsic thread Ken, thanks!!

FYI that I just created a new thread on a recent article that gave a writer's perspective on how much technology is killing the D:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/how-technology-is-killing-defense-in-the-nfl-1414523159
thanks that was a nice find.

Sometimes the mind games within the game can become like poker. There are times in a tournament when you will purposely give way a tell to your table, knowing at a critical time you will use that tell to inmislead your opponents.

I'm sure that when BB discovers a tendency he can use that info. Say in the case of that article. The safety lines up, but does something unexpected. Key breakers are important because it makes players question everything they've been told by their coaches.

Finding and using key breakers is a great leveler of the playing field, and one of the reasons why BB does so much work in self-scouting.
 
????

I think you are talking about Rob's points, not mine.
yeah, I just saw that and made the appropriate changes. Thanks and sorry
 
First I like the idea of an Idle Thoughts prior to a big game like this.

with regards to the defense, I don't think I have much that I can add there and given the history of Manning & BB defenses, I'm sure it's getting tough to throw in new wrinkles. I do agree that this is best secondary BB has had in nearly a decade, which helps.

On Offense, I hope McD doesn't try to get too cute with gimmicky plays. A couple might be ok, but in the end it comes down to execution and stacking the deck against their D.

I can see a good set of packages with Edleman, Lafell, Gronk, Wright and Vereen as you can go psuedo jumbo to a 5wr set with that setup and even the end-around (in front?) they did with Edleman with some success. like you mentioned about the Patriots defense might apply to the offense as well. Give them one look and do something else.

I would use the up-tempo conservatively, as a change of pace or if you can get them in a disadvantageous personal grouping (though we don't see fake injuries as much as we used to) and force them to use time outs or get some chunk yards. With the potential lack of an effective run game, how short would 3rd and short have to be for it be converted on a reasonable basis (while running).

Originally I thought this would be a game where Devlin and Amendola didn't see much action, but you could make a case for a guy like Develin as he had some nice receptions during the preseason and could be effective on a checkdown. But, that might be getting too cute (with play calling).
 
Postgame analysis IMHO is 100 million times better than pregame speculation.

And I'll go one further: mediocre post game analysis* is better than super-informed pregame speculation.

Put it this way: If everyone on this board wrote a postgame analysis, I'd probably read them all. The only reason I opened this thread was the sterling reputation of the OP. ;)





*-not, of course, including Felger and Mazz.
 
Good post, as always. A couple of thoughts:

How the Patriots attack the Broncos defense:

1) Lots of play action. It's been very effective so far and Brady is among the best at selling the run. Keep it interesting out of play action with Edelman on reverses and Vereen out of the backfield.

2) Go big at receiver. If there is a time to unveil the Monster Five Wide, it's Halloween weekend against the Broncos: Dobson, LaFell, Tyms, Gronk and Wright. Good luck to 5-10 CB Chris Harris. Aquib Talib can only match up with one of them. It would be nice to see Aaron Dobson in the mix. Except for his tremendous contribution as a kickoff returner, I'd de-activate Amendola for this one.

3) Give Solder some help with Gronk and Hooman and run at DeMarcus Ware early and often. He's good but he's old. Wear him down with lots of beef and Gray running down his throat. It will take its toll and diminish his effectiveness in the second half.

4) I trust the Patriots will hurry up when the time is right - usually after a first down or when the wrong defenders are out there for what they see as an opportunity. The Patriots should step on the gas when they feel they've got the momentum.

On defense:

1) This is the best and deepest secondary Manning has faced. (It blows my mind to write that about the New England Patriots.) I agree with showing Manning zone coverage early. Step back and make Manning opt for the running play. If the Pats get a lead he'll be forced to throw into coverage. With a lead, mix things up with Revis taking away Demarius Thomas, and letting the other guys do their thing. Dennard is every bit Sanders' match, and Arrington will do fine with a diminished Welker.

2) Punish the Broncos receivers after the catch. Take a page from the 1st Super Bowl and zero in on Welker, Thomas, Thomas and Sanders. Tell Chung, Browner and Dennard to bring the wood and not worry about penalties. These guys can be intimidated (see: Super Bowl XLVII). Make them think twice about catching the ball, or cruising across the middle of the field.

3) Mind your lanes up front. Without Chandler Jones, this game is not the one to dial up exotic blitzes. Stay in your gaps, get pressure when the secondary makes Manning take a couple of extra seconds to get it out, but don't give up unnecessary yards.
 
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