Idle Thoughts - the opening edition

[DaBruinz]

I agree..I really don't get the Blount love at all. He was painfully slow last year and maybe looks a tad quicker this year which isn't saying much. He dances behind the line of scrimmage too often and for a big back he sucks at short yardage.

I hear this and have to wonder what you were watching.

Here is what Blount did last year:
Bills - 2 runs - 4 yards - 2 YPC
Jaguars - 18 runs - 78 yards - 4.33 YPC- 3 TDs
Cowboys - 13 runs - 74 yards - 5.69 YPC
Colts - 16 runs - 93 yards - 5.81 YPC - 1 TD
Jets - 3 runs - (-3) yards - (-1) YPC
Miami - 17 runs - 72 yards - 4.24 YPC
Redskins - 29 runs - 129 yards - 4.45 YPC - 1 TD
Giants - 19 runs - 66 yards - 3.47 YPC
Bills - 16 runs - 56 Yards - 3.5 YPC
Broncos - 9 runs - 27 yards - 3 YPC
Eagles - 13 runs - 54 yards - 4.15 YPC
Texans - 10 runs - 53 yards - 5.3 YPC

-The first Bills game was his first game back and the game plan was to pass.
-The Jets game, the Pats were without Solder who had gone down in the Cowboys game. Also, the game plan was to pass since the Jets had one of the best run defenses in the league.
-The Giants game. You had Fleming at LT and Stork at RT. When you're starting your #4OT and a guy who is normally a center at OT, you're running game isn't going to be good..
- Broncos Game - The team was without Amendola and Edelman so the passing game wasn't as effective and prevented the teams from opening up running lanes..

 

[n6249c]

Lewis has a degenerative hip issue.. It's plagued him for awhile. It's the reason the Saints chose to move on. Because that sort of injury can flare up and put you in a bind at any time..

we have an oversupply of very promising young CB prospects, so many that we'll end up having to cut somebody good. So why add an injury prone aging vet who couldn't stick on the roster of team not as well stocked at the position? Just because he's tall doesn't help if he's hurt or unreliable or performance has slipped. why would the Saints cut him if he's good enough to be interesting? we know there is a lack of good tall corners and every team wants to have one, so the Saints letting him go says a lot. we've got a bunch of good youngsters, we'll end up doing fine developing from that crop.

 

[BTTA]

Cannon did play well last night, I agree with that assessment. I just have no faith that he can sustain a competent level of play as a starter, week in and week out, if Vollmer or Solder go down. Which becomes a pretty significant concern when you take Vollmer's extensive injury history into account. I like Vollmer and Solder, but I think they're a pair of tackles that, if they're your starters, you need a #3 who you're comfortable with the prospect of him starting 6+ games per year.

We are so spoiled here with the success of the last 15 years, that we want our backups to be starter quality, and believe something is wrong when they aren't. I count myself as among those who have caught this disease.

As our coach has noted, it is uncommon in the NFL for a team to have two good starting tackles, and almost nobody has three. When our two starters are healthy, OT is a strength of the team, even if the #3 and #4 guys are not starter quality. Good OT's are one of the rare commodities in the league, which is why they are drafted so highly.

 

[BTTA]

DaBruinz, thanks for this. It is remarkably helpful when there is actual data around here.

I hear this and have to wonder what you were watching.

Here is what Blount did last year:
Bills - 2 runs - 4 yards - 2 YPC
Jaguars - 18 runs - 78 yards - 4.33 YPC- 3 TDs
Cowboys - 13 runs - 74 yards - 5.69 YPC
Colts - 16 runs - 93 yards - 5.81 YPC - 1 TD
Jets - 3 runs - (-3) yards - (-1) YPC
Miami - 17 runs - 72 yards - 4.24 YPC
Redskins - 29 runs - 129 yards - 4.45 YPC - 1 TD
Giants - 19 runs - 66 yards - 3.47 YPC
Bills - 16 runs - 56 Yards - 3.5 YPC
Broncos - 9 runs - 27 yards - 3 YPC
Eagles - 13 runs - 54 yards - 4.15 YPC
Texans - 10 runs - 53 yards - 5.3 YPC

-The first Bills game was his first game back and the game plan was to pass.
-The Jets game, the Pats were without Solder who had gone down in the Cowboys game. Also, the game plan was to pass since the Jets had one of the best run defenses in the league.
-The Giants game. You had Fleming at LT and Stork at RT. When you're starting your #4OT and a guy who is normally a center at OT, you're running game isn't going to be good..
- Broncos Game - The team was without Amendola and Edelman so the passing game wasn't as effective and prevented the teams from opening up running lanes..

 

[rochrist]

Then Tom reportedly ran his car into a tree, but you didn't hear that here.

[Brazilian, by the way]

I'm getting a kick out of the 'isn't TB right handed huh, huh?' nitwits. If you were trying to clean a cleat on your right show, what hand would you use? He's not cutting a damned piece of paper idiots.

I swear to god, some of these sports guys probably forget how to breathe on a regular basis!

 

[BTTA]

The pattern here seems to be: give him a healthy OL, and feed him the ball (which may be about the game plan).

I don't know how this compares to other RB's around the league (in other words, do other running backs also tend to do this well when their OL is healthy and they get plenty of carries). So it might be cherry picking and misleading.

Bills - 2 runs - 4 yards - 2 YPC
Jaguars - 18 runs - 78 yards - 4.33 YPC- 3 TDs
Cowboys - 13 runs - 74 yards - 5.69 YPC
Colts - 16 runs - 93 yards - 5.81 YPC - 1 TD
Jets - 3 runs - (-3) yards - (-1) YPC
Miami - 17 runs - 72 yards - 4.24 YPC
Redskins - 29 runs - 129 yards - 4.45 YPC - 1 TD
Giants - 19 runs - 66 yards - 3.47 YPC
Bills - 16 runs - 56 Yards - 3.5 YPC
Broncos - 9 runs - 27 yards - 3 YPC
Eagles - 13 runs - 54 yards - 4.15 YPC
Texans - 10 runs - 53 yards - 5.3 YPC

-The first Bills game was his first game back and the game plan was to pass.
-The Jets game, the Pats were without Solder who had gone down in the Cowboys game. Also, the game plan was to pass since the Jets had one of the best run defenses in the league.
-The Giants game. You had Fleming at LT and Stork at RT. When you're starting your #4OT and a guy who is normally a center at OT, you're running game isn't going to be good..
- Broncos Game - The team was without Amendola and Edelman so the passing game wasn't as effective and prevented the teams from opening up running lanes..

 

[DaBruinz]

Jimmy snaps, link from reddit
With so many only ST players, and the fact that ST last year wasnt so good, Philly game last year was disaster they dont need Bolden. .

Ok. I think Bolden can be cut as well. However, your assessment of last year's STs is wanting at best.

Bolden had nothing to do with the punt getting blocked in Philly. That was 100% on Geneo Grissom.. He blocked down and doubled up on the guy who took on Cardona.. This allowed a slightly delayed rush to come in through the B Gap as Darius Fleming was focused on the guy who had been opposite Bolden and Bolden was on the guy that was lined up on his outside shoulder.. The guys in the center of the punt formation (Grissom, Fleming, Freeney and Bostic) hadn't lined up together in a game situation.. And the next game saw Chandler Jones and Ninkovich out there instead..

Also, the punt return, Bolden was held on the play and prevented from getting into position by the guy he was lined up against. Fleming failed to make the tackle and, in fact, took out Allen preventing him from making the tackle. Cardona wasn't able to catch up and one could go so far as to say that he'd over-run the play to begin with..

Darius Fleming isn't with the team anymore. Neither is Bostic.

The team brought in Roman Humber from the Saints. Humber is a fantastic Special Teamer and should help solidify the inside of the punt coverage line.

Despite the fact that the Patriots gave up the 83 yard punt return, they still only allowed 8.9 yards per punt return.. (39 returns, 347 yards).

The team's kick coverage was very good as opposing teams only averaged 18.8 YPR.. The best of Gost's career..

 

[DaBruinz]

The pattern here seems to be: give him a healthy OL, and feed him the ball (which may be about the game plan).

I don't know how this compares to other RB's around the league (in other words, do other running backs also tend to do this well when their OL is healthy and they get plenty of carries). So it might be cherry picking and misleading.

Blount is what he is. An above average (read not great) RB. Barry Sanders would have been hard-pressed to do much better with the hodge-podge O-line we were throwing out there. I think that there were a total of 2 times that we started the same o-line last year. That sort of incontinuity won't help your running game or your passing game.

 

[n6249c]

We are so spoiled here with the success of the last 15 years, that we want our backups to be starter quality, and believe something is wrong when they aren't. I count myself as among those who have caught this disease.

As our coach has noted, it is uncommon in the NFL for a team to have two good starting tackles, and almost nobody has three. When our two starters are healthy, OT is a strength of the team, even if the #3 and #4 guys are not starter quality. Good OT's are one of the rare commodities in the league, which is why they are drafted so highly.

it's not just the success of the past years. we look at the roster today and see quite a few spots that are so stacked with talent that we expect good, perhaps starter quality, players to be cut just to get down to the 53 man roster size. We've talked about CB, but we also are talking about the multiple players who look worthy of being WR5. I recall someone suggesting Hogan's contract might not be enough to keep him on the roster. It's hard to even think about the ceiling for those WR back of the roster guys because they have such talent in front of them here. We've just started talking about the depth at DT and wondering if Potroast will be cut. We've got more good safeties than the team can keep. No wonder expectations are looking for great depth everywhere, even in positions of scarcity.

 

[RayClay]

Which team wouldn't have a crisis if their best corner goes down?

Teams with two top starters, or teams with proven depth at cornerback.

 

[RayClay]

Anyone wanna take a stab at who gets WR5? Dobson, Washington, Harper, Lucien are all pretty meh and haven't done a whole lot during preseason, and Martin hasn't played at all. Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Mitchell are locks at this point.

It's too bad because I was kind of hyped by training. Reports saying that Dobson, Harper and Lucien were great during camp and now...meh.

People overestimate, by a lot, the importance of preseason reps. A lot of preseason is getting a look at new, or bubble [Dobson] guys to make sure they don't cut someone valuable.

Martin caught on right away and has a track record from another team. The fact he's nicked, or they want to look at a bunch of guys they have no book on, doesn't dismiss what they already think of him.

 

[RayClay]

We are so spoiled here with the success of the last 15 years, that we want our backups to be starter quality, and believe something is wrong when they aren't. I count myself as among those who have caught this disease.

As our coach has noted, it is uncommon in the NFL for a team to have two good starting tackles, and almost nobody has three. When our two starters are healthy, OT is a strength of the team, even if the #3 and #4 guys are not starter quality. Good OT's are one of the rare commodities in the league, which is why they are drafted so highly.

Problem with Cannon when he does play well [discounting a lot of times he didn't in recent years] is that he is a highly paid back up who adequately backs up only one position and not the most important one.

If he's not good enough to start consistently, he needs to be an adequate LT backup, or less important, back up guard [he can't].

 

[n6249c]

Teams with two top starters, or teams with proven depth at cornerback.

which would be what teams? I'd be interested to see your (or anyone's) list of teams fitting those qualifications. I'm expecting a very short list. or maybe crickets.

 

[RayClay]

I'm getting a kick out of the 'isn't TB right handed huh, huh?' nitwits. If you were trying to clean a cleat on your right show, what hand would you use? He's not cutting a damned piece of paper idiots.

I swear to god, some of these sports guys probably forget how to breathe on a regular basis!

Um, i don't listen to Boston sports radio. I was continuing the Irving fryar theme from the poster I quoted.

 

[n6249c]

People overestimate, by a lot, the importance of preseason reps. A lot of preseason is getting a look at new, or bubble [Dobson] guys to make sure they don't cut someone valuable.

Martin caught on right away and has a track record from another team. The fact he's nicked, or they want to look at a bunch of guys they have no book on, doesn't dismiss what they already think of him.

Preseason reps are important, but for a lot of reasons, most of which people overlook or don't understand, as you rightly suggest. Getting a look at new talent, coaching up rookies, evaluating injury recovery and impact, much much more than "getting into football shape" or other such bs. Preseason games are mostly about roster decisions IMO, less important but still useful is getting the starters tuned up but that's not the main priority. So playing time in preseason is the best chance for back of the roster players to separate themselves from the pack, and for coaches to get a better look at the guys they know least about. Trying to read the tea leaves about who gets what reps in a preseason game is a waste of time. The coaches know what they're doing, no value in trying to read more into it than we know.

 

[RayClay]

which would be what teams? I'd be interested to see your (or anyone's) list of teams fitting those qualifications. I'm expecting a very short list. or maybe crickets.

You want me to research the cornerback situation of every team in the league for you? We have one top cornerback we lucked into and a 3rd round pick that looked like he was going to be cut before last year. Besides that we have a street free agent.

Besides that we have third from the bottom draftee who's obviously never played in the NFL and a 7th rounder who's never played in the NFL and a bunch of undrafted rookies, who have obviously never played in the NFL.

Your position is, their is no team in the NFL who has a better number two CB than Ryan [who I supported when everyone here wanted him hung, but don't think he's suddenly turned into Ray Clayborn]

...and or has some combination of experienced backups and/or high draft picks? Not just higher than a 7th, but actual high draft picks?

Did they eliminate the draft for everyone else too? How could that be?

 

[mihap]

Ok. I think Bolden can be cut as well. However, your assessment of last year's STs is wanting at best.

Bolden had nothing to do with the punt getting blocked in Philly. That was 100% on Geneo Grissom.. He blocked down and doubled up on the guy who took on Cardona.. This allowed a slightly delayed rush to come in through the B Gap as Darius Fleming was focused on the guy who had been opposite Bolden and Bolden was on the guy that was lined up on his outside shoulder.. The guys in the center of the punt formation (Grissom, Fleming, Freeney and Bostic) hadn't lined up together in a game situation.. And the next game saw Chandler Jones and Ninkovich out there instead..

Also, the punt return, Bolden was held on the play and prevented from getting into position by the guy he was lined up against. Fleming failed to make the tackle and, in fact, took out Allen preventing him from making the tackle. Cardona wasn't able to catch up and one could go so far as to say that he'd over-run the play to begin with..

Darius Fleming isn't with the team anymore. Neither is Bostic.

The team brought in Roman Humber from the Saints. Humber is a fantastic Special Teamer and should help solidify the inside of the punt coverage line.

Despite the fact that the Patriots gave up the 83 yard punt return, they still only allowed 8.9 yards per punt return.. (39 returns, 347 yards).

The team's kick coverage was very good as opposing teams only averaged 18.8 YPR.. The best of Gost's career..

sorry i have to try to add more words or perhaps a sentence or two in my posting thoughts. Bolden is very good ST player. But with quite few players on ST and the fact that ST were BB speciality for years they made some bad mistakes in some game last year. I know they got new coach but still. Losing a game which was crucial for home game advantagee in playoffs. So many players who are only ST. IIRC before philly game they didnt allow ST TD for about 3 or more years.
This years so many players who i d like to see on roster and i am happy if some strictly ST players gone

 

[patfanken]

Cannon did play well last night, I agree with that assessment. I just have no faith that he can sustain a competent level of play as a starter, week in and week out, if Vollmer or Solder go down. Which becomes a pretty significant concern when you take Vollmer's extensive injury history into account. I like Vollmer and Solder, but I think they're a pair of tackles that, if they're your starters, you need a #3 who you're comfortable with the prospect of him starting 6+ games per year.

Well it's pretty clear that nothing short of 16 games of mistake free football will change your perception of Marcus Cannon. On the positive side, your opinion (or mine) have no real impact on what the Pats will do about that 3rd OT. It only matters what Dante and Bill think. If THEY believe that a healthy Marcus Cannon can do the job, then that's all the "faith" Cannon needs.

Again, I would point out that the collapse of the OL last season was a combination of the obvious injuries, coaching miscommunications, and the fact that several players (including Cannon) came back and played injured. The situation is now entirely different. New/old OL coach, and healthish participants can make a world of difference.

Ideally we will see Volmer come off the PUP sometime this week. But if not, the Marcus Cannon will be the guy to start the season against a very good pass rushing Cardinal team. It is what it is, buddy.

 

[patfanken]

Donald Brown has been injured and was running with the 1s before. White looks great catching the ball though.

I totally forgot all about D Brown. Given that he reportedly flashed some before he went down, is just another reason why Perillo's remark that the Pats #1 running back is not yet on the team isn't going to happen.

 

[patfanken]

Lewis has a degenerative hip issue.. It's plagued him for awhile. It's the reason the Saints chose to move on. Because that sort of injury can flare up and put you in a bind at any time..

Damned, as soon as a I saw 6'1 my mouth started to water. We really need a tall physical CB's skill set on this team. Even WITH a degenerative hip issue, Lewis might be a reasonable risk at the Vet minimum, assuming he is currently healthy. Even if he ended up playing only a half dozen games it would be worth the effort, because in THOSE games we'd have the missing skill set. Better that than nothing at all.