Welcome to PatsFans.com

Idle thoughts - the morning after....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Apr 28, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,649
    Likes Received:
    135
    Ratings:
    +259 / 14 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    Last season about this time I turned off the draft after the Mallet pick in a rage and composed a rant that among other things predicted the beginning of the end of the Pats dominance. (...and how did that turn out :rolleyes:)

    Well last night I was so stunned by the Wilson pick, I couldn't feel any rage.....UNTIL....the Pats decided to give away the 62nd pick in the draft for pennies on the dollar. THEN I threw something at the screen....and thankfully missed (proving once again why I was always the grunt and never the "skill player")

    Fortunately I refrained from embarrassing myself by writing another insane rant, but now feel compelled to write something that will help me explain the events of the last 2 days, which can best be described by the old Wide World of Sports adage, "The thrill of victory, and the agony of defeat."......along with some more general thoughts on the draft.

    The thrill of victory

    1. Chandler Jones - Pats fans have waited for over a decade to see BB draft an impact pass rusher. A single player who has the potential to force DC's to adjust to HIM. We have to understand how rare these guys are, and how lucky we have to be to have one fall into an area where we are in a position to draft him.

    Make no mistake Jones is far from a finished product. If he was, we'd never have had a shot at drafting him. His youth, missing 5 games, and unspectacular production, all conspired to drop him to a point where he BB could leap up and draft the first true "impact" defensive player he's had since Richard Seymour over a decade ago.

    HOWEVER after this somewhat overly hyped build up, I have to reiterate, Jones is far from a finished product. He has to get stronger and develop those skills and experiences necessary to allow him reach his potential. We only have to look at JPP's experience with the Giants. He had a VERY unspectacular rookie year, where some even called him a bust. IIRC, he had only 4 sacks, before he exploded last season with 16.

    Well Jones is somewhat a different player than JPP and probably won't get the sack numbers he puts up, but will end up being stouter against the run. But that's not the point. The point is that it would be very unfair to expect instant spectacular impact from him. Its going to take a year or two before we get full value from this pick.

    IMHO, He'll start out sharing the snaps that Mark Anderson got in the the pass rushing sub packages and then eventually see some time as an OLB in 3-4 looks on passing downs. He will flash brilliance and then make horrible mistakes. His biggest impact next season will be (along with the other additions to the front seven) to allow BB to be much more creative than he has been the last 2 seasons.

    2. Donta Hightower - I have to be honest here. I pretty much ignored Hightower throughout most of the run up to the draft. I dismissed him as a great LB, but I viewed him strictly as an ILB and it clearly wasn't a position of need with Mayo, Spikes and Fletcher already here and getting better each year. I also questioned the wisdom of drafting a player that high who plays a position that is shrinking in importance in today's pass happy league. to that end I was always looking at Mercilus, McCellin, Jones, Upshaw, etc as my outside guy, and then adding at DE/DT type with my second pick (Still or Reyes). I sort of conceded Hightower to the Steelers or Ravens as a great player, but not for us.

    WRONG AGAIN - Because I dismissed him so early in the process, I missed the fact that not only is a better, more explosive athlete than, say, Upshaw; he is flexible enough to play all over the defense. So not only will he provide ILB depth, he can also play DE and OLB as well. He in essence becomes BB's utility/plug and play guy when he creates those week to week match up D's

    Also, unlike Jones, Hightower should hit the field running. There won't be any ramp up time needed for him. This is an immediate impact player at multiple positions who will make everyone around him better and allow BB to get back to being the creative genius we saw in the superbowl years.

    Finally what shouldn't be dismissed is that BOTH these guys are "high motor" athletes who will do what's necessary to reach their high potentials. Jerod "Bellichick" now has Donta "Bellichick" as a kindred spirit. Jones might not have quite the ceiling of a guy like Coples but his floor is infinitely higher. BB drafted not only the next generation of talent on the D, but the next generation of leadership

    The agony of defeat

    2. I eagerly awaited the start of Round 2. After Thursday I had high expectations. We had infused the front seven with 2 spectacular prospects and now it was time to help the back end of the defense. I fantasized about Janoris Jenkins, but if he were gone there were several, if not "spectacular" prospects, nice ones that would improve us. Josh Robinson, Trumaine Johnson, George Iloki, Markelle Martin, Hosely, Flemming, and Bently all seemed to guys who might not be MY exact binky, certainly would improve the talent level and depth of the secondary.

    Besides that, there would also be some interesting DE/DT's available Still, Reyes, Worthy, and Thompson were all still available. Perhaps one of those guys might reach us. And even if I disagreed with the need, there were a ton of OT/OG's that a lot of people liked if BB decided he needed to add depth there. I could live with a DB/DL or DB/OL 2nd round.

    Well you all know the rest of the story. I won't belabor you with comments that that everyone has already thought and posted. Suffice it to say that it was "disappointing".
    HOWEVER I will say that none of the disappointment should be directed to Tayvon Wilson. He just might turn out to be a very nice player in the end. There have been a LOT of very good S's in this league who where thought to have middle and round. Rodney was a 4th round pick IIRC.

    No folks, this pick is an indictment of our own FO. Its hard to believe that these were the same group of people who have so deftly manipulated the draft process so we managed to restock this team on the fly and not suffer even a single 9 win season in the process. Its hard to believe that these are the same guys who brought us such joy, just the day before.

    NO his pick can't be explained away with Volmer and Mankins comparisons. When Volmer was picked, although he was considered a reach, people at least knew who he was. There was footage of him. Wilson was such an out of the box pick that PFT, who has had a blurb about EVERY draft pick taken in the first 3 rounds, completely blanked on Wilson. Nothing, it was like he was never picked.

    Now Kiper is often an idiot, but you can't deny his passion or his knowledge of the players who are draft eligible . He's the ultimate draftnik. And he had NO idea who Wilson was at first. Even OTG, who is as good as anyone we see in the media can't justify this move.

    So, I sat there stunned, trying desperately to justify this pick and hoping that somehow the next pick will salvage the round, only to watch the team pull out of the draft with a trade that you'd expect the Bengals to make, taking pennies on the dollar to move out.

    BOTTOM LINE: I guess I should be thankful that all my "needs" have been taken care of. It was an all defensive draft just like I wanted. We DID pick up a DB and DE/DT which was my 2nd choice. BUT when I think the DB and DT/DE that we COULD have gotten might have been Reyes and Iloki/Johnson, instead of Bequette and Wilson; my head wants to explode.

    I tell you what. If that round 5 pick doesn't end up being a 5 year starter down the road, I will always remember the 2nd round of this draft as horrible lost opportunity.
  2. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,649
    Likes Received:
    135
    Ratings:
    +259 / 14 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    And other assorted draft thoughts

    3. The Ravens and Steelers better keep a close eye on the Bengals because they seem to really be loading up on talent, at least on paper

    4.No question the Jets FO is going "all in" with this draft so far.There is no tomorrow for them. They have to turn it around THIS season or they are gone. Coples and Hill are the epitome of boom or bust picks. If I were a Jet fan, I'd be pretty excited, but it could all go horribly wrong just as easily. Almost as wrong as our 2nd round :rolleyes: I still think that even if these 2 kids turn out to be OK, they have an uphill road. The Pats got better this off season (despite the 2nd round), and the Bills are much improved as well.

    5. Media notes - I can't believe that will all those trades, the first round of the draft lasted just 3 hours. It actually was enjoyable to watch. Boomer couldn't believe how fast and smoothly it all went

    Kiper should be wearing a Raven jersey when he does this. His constant ball washing of everything Ravens is pretty embarrassing, as well as his continued whining about the playoff game with the Pats.

    I haven't checked the papers today, but I'll be interested to see the comments about the 2nd round. I'm pretty sure while the first round was thrilled all Pats fans, only Ron Borges was happy with the 2nd.

    Final thoughts

    Now comes a long 3 months of dead time before camp starts. I'm already into withdrawal symptoms. And when you think of it for a moment, the disaster of the 2nd round, doesn't come CLOSE to mitigating the general GREAT off season the Pats have accomplished thus far. Even though every time I see Reyes and Iloki on TV I will cringe with "what might have been"

    What is great about the NFL is that this is the time that EVERY team and their fans have the opportunity to dream. Every player they add from the draft and FA could be the ones to take them over the top. When you look around there are so many teams who seemed to have improved. Teams that are ALL looking to knock us off our perch. And the fact is that many HAVE improved. But that being said, despite the hiccup of last night (which I will EVENTUALLY stop talking about), the Pats have done a good job, thus far, of keeping pace.

    It looks like we will go into next season with a great offense, an improved defense, and a good cap situation. Hard to ask more than that.

    See you all in June.
  3. AƟƟynormal

    AƟƟynormal PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    Supply and Demand and the quality of the draft affected Tayvon Wilson's draft position. The mediots failed to note he was moving up. Also, his team first attitude lowered his national recognition. Finally, BB made damn sure he wasn't shut out in acquiring a Safety, what he believes to be a decent Safety, even if it meant taking him sooner than expected, IMO.

    The Ravens deserve recognition as a high end drafting team. Although, we have now stoned them twice, Gronkowski and Hightower.

    Enjoy your Spring, and get a DVR, you should never miss you're nightly walk.:)
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  4. BSR

    BSR Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,913
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    What is really surprising to me is that you put more faith in the talent evaluation of Kiper et al and less in Belichicks. Instead of saying "Wow...there is obviously something deficient in Kiper's evaluation process that they didn't know about this guy." you call it an indictment of the FO as if Kiper is the gold standard. Do you understand how messed up that is?
  5. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,484
    Likes Received:
    245
    Ratings:
    +541 / 6 / -0

    Is Jake Bequette wearing an invisibility shield or something? I've never seen a 3rd-round pick be so universally ignored.
  6. JR4

    JR4 In the Starting Line-up PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    2,756
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +22 / 0 / -2

    Since we do not have all the information that the FO and BB had how
    can anyone not in the know say Drafting Wilson was a very bad thing
    to do at that point in the draft?

    Just a few things to consider during idle times.

    1. Pats scouts may have been following Wilson for quite some time.
    2. PATs privately worked him out.
    3. At least six other teams had him in for a visit.
    4. Because BB picked him in the second round tells you BB wanted him badly.

    Now what may have happened is those 6 other teams got info that BB was
    really interested in this player so they had him in for a visit.
    Then BB finds out that Wilson made these visits and believes one of them
    having found BB's hidden gem will jump him.
    Is this justification for using the high pick for Wilson?

    Without knowing what BB and the FO knows how can anyone be critical
    of this pick?
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  7. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    9,006
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +96 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Let's face it ... hardly anyone's talking about Jones or Hightower today either. It's all about the controversial pick today (until the next one).
  8. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,930
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I actually think that wearing the badge of invisibility is a high honor, when it comes to being scrutinized by this board; keeping in mind that not even Tom Brady escapes crucification.
  9. Lifer

    Lifer Banned

    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,293
    Likes Received:
    26
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    Anyone with this much time on their hands needs to get a girlfriend, get a life. Its springtime. Enjoy the flowers. Good God.
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,824
    Likes Received:
    89
    Ratings:
    +150 / 3 / -19

    We have been on a run for the past two years, something 16 guys on this team were drafted in '10 & '11, while Tavon may seem controversial... gotta give benefit of the doubt right now. They gotta be seeing something.. sure they did not pick a name out of a hat...

    Jake Bequette is interesting & versatile, and could be a sleeper. Didn't Mallett graduate, or attend, Arkansas????
  11. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,649
    Likes Received:
    135
    Ratings:
    +259 / 14 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    I actually liked what I read on the draft forum about Bequette. He was a riser just like Derrick Wolfe obviously was. I'm OK with the Bequette pick. I'm even OK with the Wilson pick, since I wanted a DB in the 2nd round. HOWEVER.....

    While I would never dare to have the hubris to think I know more than BB (or even OTG for that matter), based on what I read, I can't help wondering why our 2 picks turned out to be Wilson and Bequette, instead of Still and Iloki or Reyes and Johnson.

    I STILL want an explanation on why we made such a bad trade at the end of the round, value wise. I'm fine with them wanting Wilson, but what was so imperative that the get him THEN. What skill set did they see that made him SO much better than the other prospects available that they HAD to move up to get him so much earlier than expected.

    I cannot justify this with comparisons to Volmer and Mankins. Those guys might have been deemed "reaches" but at least they were on the radar
  12. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,601
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +93 / 5 / -0

    #3 Jersey

    Jake Bequette was an INSANELY awesome Pick.

    Check the Draft Room.

    But, yeah: Point taken. :cool:
  13. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,601
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +93 / 5 / -0

    #3 Jersey

    Humble Thanks for the nods, Brother Ken. :cool:
  14. AƟƟynormal

    AƟƟynormal PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    677
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    I think the bad value trade at the end of Round Two revolves around Nick McDonald. Perhaps we had a verbal agreement with Green Bay, after Koppen went down, to allow us to acquire McDonald from their practice squad (without GB simply promoting him). Possibly a Fifth, which may be the difference in value per the chart. I admit I'm guessing but that's all I can think of it being.
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2012
  15. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    9,794
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +21 / 0 / -0

    So what do you think? Trulon Henry signed as an UDFA to make up for Tavon Wilson?
  16. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    6,601
    Likes Received:
    56
    Ratings:
    +93 / 5 / -0

    #3 Jersey

    Works for ME!! :D
  17. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    1,254
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I think the modest pickups in round two indicate that BB is not finished with free agentry. I wouldn't be surprised by a couple more significant additions.
  18. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,649
    Likes Received:
    135
    Ratings:
    +259 / 14 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    but just who are the "significant additions" available There are certainly no prominent FS's available.
  19. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,821
    Likes Received:
    50
    Ratings:
    +100 / 3 / -11

    300 players get invited to the combine....these are the only players the media gets introduced to. Yet when you think about it, there are a 100+ Div I teams not to mention scores of 1A and DII teams with quality players. In other words, 2 to 3 players per team on average get the to the combine, leaving 15-25 seniors or draft eligible underclassmen on every team that stay home and get ignored by the main stream media. There are thousands eligible for every draft and the experts have limited time and resources....they stick to the names we have been spoon fed via the combine introduction. As far as the Pats are concerned, it seems their roster has more undrafted FAs that make their roster than from bottom round draftees.
    Get over it. Belichick believes he found a "player" and needed to grab him early. Clearly he was a target and BB felt he had to go early in order to guarantee his services. Isn't it obvious that he felt this kid would not be available at 62. Trust your coach, ignore the hair.
  20. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    3,324
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +79 / 65 / -56

    #87 Jersey

    I really LOVE this pick. We got 3 guys who should help us this year,all ethree can rush the passer.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>