Welcome to PatsFans.com

Idle thoughts - the late night edition.....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Oct 17, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    5,739
    Likes Received:
    289
    Ratings:
    +500 / 14 / -8

    #91 Jersey

    1.If you had told me that the Pats were going to hold the Cowboys to 16 points I would have bet the house that they would have won the game by 3 scores, instead of 3 points. But that's not all I was wrong about this game.

    a. If I knew where to make an illegal bet, I would have lost a lot of money betting the over on this game.
    b. I you'd told me that the Pats were going to turn the ball over 4 times, I would have guaranteed a loss
    c. I though this would be a game where the Pats would use 3 WRs a lot. Ocho got 7 snaps.

    2. Despite all the flaws in execution and all the turnovers this was by far the best game the Pats played this entire year.

    It was the best game because they proved they can over come the adversity of 4 TOs. They could make the big 3 and out at a critical point in the game. That they could make a game winning drive when behind. I it might seem odd, but it was quite a refreshing change from the sprint out to a lead, then hold on for dear life strategy that we've seen for most of the last few years. It was almost "old school" Patriot football

    3. They might not play a more talented team, or more dangerous offense the entire year. IIRC this was the 3rd best passing offense in the league. And while the Pats did a great job in the running game, you can't help but like Felix Jones. He had some of the best 3 yd runs I have seen, bouncing off several would be tacklers just to gain a yard or two (Great pursuit by the Pats most of the day) Murray also looked like a quality back.

    Face it guys this really was the toughest test the Pats have faced so far this season.....and they passed it. I wouldn't surprised at all to see them win the NFCE

    4 The offense -

    a. Lets start with the run game. The good part was that, against the best rushing D in the league, we averaged 4 ypc. and just over 100 yds The bad was the 4 runs for losses. That's just not good. We might never see Vareen in the backfield unless their's an injury. It wasn't a great day for the runners, but they were adequately complementary.

    b. One of the reason's the Pats will have an effective run game going on into the season is the 2 TE, 2WR, 1 RB set, that has become our predominant formation...by far. What makes it go is how effective BOTH Gronk and Hernandez are as receivers and how good a run blocking OL we have.

    2 TEs force defenses to widen and spreads them. On passes, outside rushers are often one Man wider than they would be. You get great blocking match ups on runs and/or protection. So teams really have to align to protect the run.

    But their's the rub, because the Pats STILL have 4 very effective receivers who can quickly get down field. You rarely can rrisk keeping 8 men in the box. Then when you add all the motion options, it can be a real problem, because motion forces the D to declare coverage

    So in the run game if a team goes to a nickel or dime defense with 5 or 6 DB, it creates favorable match ups - But when they stay with 4 DBs to stop the run, they open themselves up to the pass.

    c. The OL was a mixed bag today. For the first time this year you saw some consistent pressure up the middle. The 3 sacks can be broken down like this. Light got beat by the best rusher in the league. Connolly and Waters played "you got 'em....no YOU got 'em". and got split on the 3 man rush sack. And the 3rd was a cover sack from Ware. Also there was one egregious blown block by Mankins.

    STILL Brady has a lot of drop backs where he had tons of time. That was a very good pass rushing team. Plus the run game was effective The OL would probably deserve a B- for the day. Decent Job....room for improvement.

    BTW I am REALLY looking forward to the time when we can bring out the 3 OT formation with Solder as the 2nd TE and Hernandez on the wing AHHHHHH maybe someday.

    d. Thank god Brady was Brady on that last drive, because he had some very unBrady-like moments in this game. It looked like the first pick was deflected on the LOS, which "might" have caused the ball to be behind Branch and led to the pick, but the second one was clearly Brady doing his best Romo imitation, throwing the ball right into the FOUR Dallas Players who seemed to surround the only Pats player close to the ball. Plus on Hernandez's fumble catch,. Brady was late getting him the ball

    Still he had some great throws into tight places too. He had 27 completions, and there were very few where Pats receivers were wide open. An ordinary QB who had a game winning drive like that would get a B. But on the Brady scale, I'm sure he'd give himself a C

    e. How long is it going to be before some talking head tells us that Dallas has given the dreaded "blueprint" on how to stop Wes Welker :rolleyes:

    f. The Pats had 5 penalties today....somehow it seemed like more

    g. I think the last drive proved to me that one way to break down the Rob Ryan scheme that we didn't use enough is the RB getting into the pattern. Woody was wide open both times Brady hit him. We didn't use that enough

    DEFENSE -

    1. The DL was stupendous all around. And while this wasn't a great pass rush, I think the DL made Romo more uncomfortable more consistently than any other QB this season, even when they didn't get to him. Still not what we'd like to see, but better than the last game, which was better than the game before that.

    2. I thought that the Dallas offense were present more problems for the Pats D than any Team other than the Saints or the Packers. Teams we won't play until the superbow. I feel better about our chances if we get there ;)

    3. I don't know if the Pats have a 10th player award but if they do, I'd give it to Rob Ninkovitch who has been quietly effective setting the edge and rushing the passer all year. The best example of "do YOUR job" on the D.

    4. OTOH, Jerrard Mayo can't get back on the field fast enough for me. You know me. I'm not a player basher, but Gary Guyton is going to make me a hypocrite soon if BB doesn't get him out of there. He is a detriment in the run game, and doesn't seem to be much of an asset in coverage either.

    Fletcher is MUCH better in the run game, and how much worse can be be in the pass game. I'd like to see him get more time. If the self flagellating masochists want to start a poll on Gary Guyton, I'd vote YES to sitting him down.

    5. On the plus side for the DBs, I'd have to think that Romo would have thrown to Austin and Bryant more if they had been open more. So I expect that the coverage was pretty good overall. OTOH, the tackling wasn't good. It was not only the missed tackles like McCourty on Robinson, and Chung/Guyton on Bryant, but there were a LOT of instances where the Cowboy receivers were getting and extra 3-5 yds after being hit

    6. I also find it strange that neither the Pats OR the Cowboys took a single shot deep in this game. Given the receivers the Cowboys have you'd think that they'd have tried a least a couple of times. and up until today, the Pats have taken their shots down field 3 or 4 times a game previously. I'd love to see the coaches tapes to see what each team was doing to shut that off.

    7. Albert teases us with a few more impact plays with each game he plays. I think by game ten we will finally start to see what the excitement was all about when we got him. It will be perfect timing for the stretch run and playoffs

    SPECIAL TEAMS

    The coverage teams did real well today, however we haven't had a big play from the return teams in a while. I was hoping we'd get one today.

    Miscellaneous

    a. I am pleased that the Ryan portion of the season is 2/3rds over....with 2 wins so far. Say what you will, they seem to have more success slowing down this offense than anyone else in the league

    b. How can TB lose 48-3 to the offensively challenged 49ers last week and then beat everyone's 2nd favorite team today

    c. On Monday, we can get the 4 guys he has on PUP back on the field to practice. though I think we have up to 4 weeks before we have to make a roster decision Is that correct?

    d. When you thing about it, beating the Cowboys coming off the bye makes this win even more impressive

    e. It seems like we COULD have nearly EVERYONE back by the time we play Pittsburgh. SWEET I really think Dowling is going to make a big difference in coverage once he gets a game or 2 under his belt. He can give us a bigger CB to o\play against the taller WRs or more coverage ability at the S position...or a little bit of both

    f. I know its VERY unlikely to happen, BUT if the Jets ever lose to the Dolphins Monday night, there will be blood in the water for the NY media. It would be UGLY BTW - I think that Jet fans are going to be very surprised when they finally have to play the Bills The Bills are good

    g. They did a poll on TV on whether you thought the team had improved since last season. Even though Brady has gone from Godlike to "merely" mortal excellence, I'd think that answer is a resounding YES and I'd be happy to list the ways if anyone disagrees, but this is too long already and I"m running out of steam. Good night
  2. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,824
    Likes Received:
    446
    Ratings:
    +1,061 / 15 / -16

    Thanx Ken...I actually stayed up waiting for YOUR take...good work
  3. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,720
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    The team has improved in one very big spot.....the Red Zone on both sides,obviously 100x better on defense compared to last year.

    We all know the red zone defense wasnt the greatest last year, but if there was anything about this low ranked D it's that it held it's own much more often than last year so far in terms of giving up the FG instead of a TD

    Even the offense is even better down deep in opponents territory.....Gostkowski might be getting bored if he is waiting for a bunch of FGs this season.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  4. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,415
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    i wanna think that the Boys Offensive gameplan played right into our hands...

    it seemed that their sets for the most part was 2WR,1TE,2RB....and what we did was double the outside WR's, with a cb and safety every time

    our safeties sure werent big on run support today

    the deep passes would then explain why Romo wasnt going to them

    i still dont know why we didnt try any, it seemed that branch was doubled some times (that is actually starting to be the case a lot this year, not sure why, but defenses are afraid of branch)

    for the second pick Brady threw: his elbow was hit while throwing the ball, and that takes a LOT out of the power in the throw, if you go back and watch the replay you can see that behind a triple covered welker was a double covered Hernandez....but behind hernandez was a wide open i wanna say branch

    if Brady had managed to get the ball out w/o getting hit, im 90% sure it was a TD.....my prob w/ the play was that brady knew the guy was very close, he should have just tucked it and ran for however much/out of bounds, he KNEW he was taking a risk trying to throw it, he got burned on that risk


    btw, when was the last time we had a Tom Brady come from behind win? been a while, nice to see it happen again
  5. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,415
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    btw, im pretty sure Felix Jones left the game in either the first or second series....the RB ur talking about getting some yards even after getting hit was the other dude (Murray?)
  6. amazinPats

    amazinPats Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2006
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I don't sign off for the night until I see Patfanken's take on things. Thanks, bro!
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,296
    Likes Received:
    128
    Ratings:
    +239 / 8 / -26

    As always good post... not much to argue about.

    But 4 runs for losses against this Defense is not all that bad, BJGE continues to plow ahead and take care of the ball.

    To have 4 turnovers and still win is impressive...

    Brady's last drive, was outstanding.. but hate to say this, expected. We are in the really glorious times, when he got the ball in the end he looked focused and determined, and it showed. He deserves every accolade he gets..
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  8. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0

    For what it's worth, I saw the same thing. There was only a brief view of it during a replay (from behind Brady goign towards the end zone). It answered the question of what he was attempting because Aikman said it was going to be an interception for whichever receiver he was throwing to (havings seen only the 2 himself).
  9. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    18,650
    Likes Received:
    268
    Ratings:
    +570 / 1 / -3

    #75 Jersey

    Opening game 2009 is the last one that comes to mind.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  10. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2008
    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -1

    Over time game against the ravens at home last year. Or was that the year before? Its to early.
  11. borg

    borg Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2004
    Messages:
    3,872
    Likes Received:
    57
    Ratings:
    +125 / 5 / -12

    I find it intriguing that opponents opt to run the ball on their goal line opportunities. They throw the ball with ease for 70 yards...then tighten it up on the goal line. Six games in now, the Pats have stuffed multiple rush attempts on their goal. Will teams learn to pass on all 3 downs in the future?

    Hernandez plays like a vet (except that fumble). Clearly his speed/agility has dropped significantly since the knee issue, yet he has the smarts to use body postion to create an open target. The bye week couldn't have come at a better time for him. Loved the Hernandez/Gronk comraderie after the game winner. Hope these two stay in a Pats uni for many years to come.

    Ridley kick returning up the middle on every return? Not much imagination there!

    Rattle Brady early....and it affects his mindset. These plus defensive teams with their pass rushers can force the Pats O into plan B very quickly. Loved the fact that Tom had some carries in the game. Double digit yards in fact. The big question: The Pats go hurry up O to a) exploit a perceived mismatch...or b)...tire out the pass rush by the 4th quarter.

    As Ken stated, can't wait to get a healthy Volmer, which will allow Solder to lengthen the line as a TE. I feel the running game will show more consistancy then.

    Pitt on the schedule next....Will we see the usual, a pass happy O?
  12. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    The thing that gave us a winning advantage through 2004 was our ability as a team to take the other team's best shot and then overcome it.

    I haven't seen that same kind of heart and determination to win ugly since our last SB victory. The 2007 team was very fun, but a one trick pony. In the end they could not overcome a scrappy team that wanted a dogfight.

    I feel like this team is developing a character that we haven't seen in a while.

    Playoff character. :D
  13. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,307
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +28 / 0 / -0

    I joked (to my wife) that it seemed his objective was to run into the first defender that came down the field.
  14. Buchanty

    Buchanty Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -1

    Great post as usual, and I am pretty much in agreement with all your points especially that this was the best game the team has played all year. Yes there were a number of mistakes and quite a few problems to iron out, but this is exactly the sort of game you want going in to the bye. Plenty to dissect and improve. But what stood out for me was the mental toughness and spirit on both sides of the ball. That one was definitely for MHK.

    I also have to raise my hat to the Ryan brothers, they are without doubt the best defensive coordinators in the game right now and I loved the respect TB showed Rob at the end of the game handshakes - a brief hug which tells you everything about how high TB rates him.

    Not one of the O-Line's better games but in the context of the quality of the Dallas defense they deserve a B. I still think Waters and Solder are great additions and cant wait to see Vollmer return - he has to be close to ready surely?

    It's funny how people are saying that TB's not playing to the stellar level of last year. I don't think there is any significant change other than the dice are falling negatively on tipped plays. Last year there were quite a few but no-one near, this year every tipped ball seems to land in the hands of the opposition and usually the defensive player makes a very athletic move. Damn, I tipped Sean Lee for the pro-bowl this year but he didn't have to improve his chances yesterday with that pick. And I also questioned Brady's decision making on that throw even though his arm was hit on the play, but thanks for the posts that showed there was a open target other than Hernandez and Welker in cover.

    That last drive though is a keeper for the video collection, and so nice to see as these have become rare in the air attack we have had since 2007. The offense as a whole looked awesome for the final 2 minutes. I have to admit I was not 100% confident of a FG let alone a TD when they started out on their 20 yard line. But each completion was an adrenalin rush of major proportions. Fantastic theater!

    But the majority of the accolades need to go to the Defense or at least the D-line. Warren, welcome back; Love, glad your are through your injury and contributing; Albert is becoming a major force; Wilfork gives 110% on every play. But game balls to Spikes for a breakout game and Carter for those 2 sacks, glad we got you. The secondary still worries me. I think it does come down to the second safety, and the fact that we have a weakness there that undermines the cornerbacks' confidence (McCourty in particular). I do think we need to bring in Sharper or trade to improve the Safety position, Chung plays more than well enough but can't do it alone.

    I'll take 5-1 going into the bye any day, especially since we have played a pretty tough schedule and overcome some strong opposition. If there is one thing I would like to come out of this game though is the end of commentators and mediots calling the Pats D the worst in the league - no bigger myth in football today than that one.

    Great game and great post - thank you , Ken
  15. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,638
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    I see why this Dallas team gets the hype despite the results, they are good. They have the talent, they just seem to do the one thing every game to lose it. When they finally pull it together they'll be scary, I'm just not sure if Romo will ever learn to take care of the ball in critical moments. They should easily be 4-1 right now.

    Liked what I saw from the D line today. The tackling in the secondary still needs a ton of work and with the lack of padded practices I'm not sure what they can really do about it. Guyton.... yeah he was on the field, not sure he actually played the game. Spikes was great at the end of the game and seems to be turning into an emotional leader out there, which is great.

    Fortunately unlike the Buffalo game we made the mistakes and overcame them. That said, these 4 turnover games can not continue. Hernandez would be the perfect offensive weapon if he didn't fumble the ball. Every time he makes one of his moves I get nervous, even though they often time gain an extra 5-6 yards. Brady also needs to stop forcing passes. Several of his INTs weren't his fault but the second one today certainly was and the one to Gronk in the Buffalo game was, one could have cost of the game and one did. That can't continue if we want to go far in the playoffs against the likes of Baltimore.

    Also, let's hope the Dolphins can pull the upset tonight to give us more room from the Jets as well as hurting themselves in the suck for Luck campaign.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  16. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    11,609
    Likes Received:
    318
    Ratings:
    +775 / 8 / -1

    #11 Jersey

    And it's not just turnovers, it's accuracy. Despite a brain-dead moment or two for Brady, it's easy to recall several times he threaded a needle yesterday to move the chains despite good coverage. But when do you ever hear "What a pinpoint throw by Romo!" or "The defender was all over him, but Romo put that ball where only his receiver could get it!"

    It makes you realize that every year there are teams that could be Superbowl contenders with an elite QB. I'm very grateful to have an all-time elite here in New England.
  17. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    the cowboys are mediocre though. Maybe the pats get a pass b/c ryan's defense is tough and he seems to have their numbers....but bottom line, having to have a last drive TD to win against a mediocre team is not good. Not good!

    Pittsburgh will be a challenge, if they win that they are for real.

    It's good that Brady is gettiing used to throwing pics during the year so he won't freak out and crumble like he did last playoff game when he threw one.
  18. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Messages:
    23,364
    Likes Received:
    489
    Ratings:
    +1,184 / 15 / -11

    Disable Jersey

    That last drive...
    Brady got whacked hard a couple times but hung in to make the pass.
    And each pass except for 2 was to a receiver that looked "covered" so the accuracy HAD to be perfect. And it was.
    Nice off the bench contribution by Woodhead. And WWW whom the announcers announced was taken out of the game made 2 big plays that drive.
    Postgame Brady revealed that the last TO was called by BB to ask if Light who got hurt 2 plays earlier was up to the task of protection. On the following play Dallas rushed only one from the left side allowing Mankins to help out Light for the game winner.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2011
  19. PatsSox363804

    PatsSox363804 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    2,638
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    Last year we kicked the crap out of Pittsburgh and look where that got us. I agree it will be a tough game but we generally play well against them.
  20. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,526
    Likes Received:
    12
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Agree with this the most. That is my biggest take away from this game. All of the things I've started to worry about these last couple seasons. A big stop when we really need it and the game on the line. Come from behind GW drive by Brady.

    In other words...... a gritty win. Seems like it's been awhile since we had one.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>