idle thoughts - the I can't sleep edition

[AzPatsFan]

Random thoughts:

1) Pats running left....whoever BB was targeting on the right side of the Jets D line has to be worried that fat Rex is about to ask him to bring his playbook into a private meeting. The Pats ran left early with limited success...and I started to get pissed....ah....but what do I know...because that meat was being tenderized for a 4th quarter feast...and it was delicious

2a) The Jets WRs complain about their O during the week, then proceed to drop balls on the first two series forcing punts. Pats D was handed those first 2 three and outs on a platter. This game could have gone in a different direction very easily

2b) WTF was Tannenbaum thinking taking Plaxico over Braylon Edwards? Plax and his hands.....nothing has changed since jail. P.S....that sideline catch /overturned call should have been called inconclusive.....and a catch IMO.

3) Welker going for that short punt reminded me of a certain Sox left fielder...Now Wes knows what contract he compares best to

4) Can the Pats hire whoever scouts Jets' DBs?

5) Points against...Pats have given up fewer points than the vaunted Jets...by 1 point

6) Great white north....Buffalo's secondary feasted off another QB...Do not ignore the team behind the curtain

7) BJGE...M o a M...Man on a Mission. The total commitment Ben showed on every play was impressive. He followed his lead blocked then launched his body through gaps...total commitment. A shining example of team ball and unselfishness. Good stuff. BJGE earns unlimited whirlpool visits this week

8) Hernandez looked a little chunky out their...or was that me

9) I thought Ghost could kick it through the endzone? Anyone see Janikowski yesterday. Raiders just let their guy tee it up from 50+ all day.

10) A common theme from Jets fans over the past few weeks....DEPTH. The Jets are thin at O line, RB, WR, TE. Depth is their achilles now and through the rest of the season. Of course the Jets fans blame their OC instead of the roster make up....have at it JEST fans[/QUOTE]

That has been a constant them with me for a couple of years. The Jets have been trading multiple draft picks for ageing front line players, for several years now. You can't keep a team winning when you only get one or two picks a year. The depth disappears and the good players age faster you can replace them.

For the first two years of the Wrecks regime, they were very fortunate having far fewer than normal the number of injuries, too.

Well the Law of Averages has caught up with them. Bart Scott has gone over the Hill, as has Leonard. Their WR pool is basically empty. The two starters at WR, were high picks dumped by two teams or more before arriving in Jetland. The reasons why are there for everyone to see. They have only one RB in shone Green as "Classless" is fully over the hill.

Wrecks can't run the "Ground and Pound" without a superior Offensive line. Unfortunately age has robbed them of a RT, and there is a nonentity playing in one Guard spot. Not only do they lack depth, they only have three out of five players with starting ability, playing.

Their DL is short on starters, and consists of three players only.

As I predicted, the distance between the Jets and Pats has opened to more than the three games that it became last season. We are on course for 12-4, and they look to be on course for 7-9, or so. The Bills may actually pass them by.

 

[Patspsycho]

Why even compare them? They bring different strengths to the table. Against a team like the Raiders that crashed big guys between the tackles, Ridley will have more success by being able to get to the edges. Against a Jets team that was spread out much of the time, BJGE's ability to quickly identify and hit the right hole was the right fit. Tastes great and less filling.

To this I add, why do we have the compelling need to rank our RBs, to make one better than the other? Like Metaphors says, they all bring their own skill set to the table, and there will be an use, and an opportunity for each of them.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Almost forgot about another RB, he should be returning soon, no?

Stevan Ridley
Up, and workout finished.. of course kev faulk beat me to the workout and film.. The wise oldhead will never be outworked lol you see why it's his 13th year.. Gotta Learn from the vets!

 

[patfanken]

WoW I never thought my remarks on BJGE would be so inflammatory. I basically wrote it more as a compliment to a guy I thought brought more to the table than just pure talent. I wrote it to point out that there are other qualities, beyond just running skill that are deemed important to BB. I never thought that among all the things I wrote about, this would be the one that would generate the most comment.

It only goes to show me that next time I'd better be clearer in my phrasing...which is often hard to do at one in the morning. Suffice it to say, that BJGE is a good RB who has thrived because he has accentuated different qualities than what is usually thought of when rating RBs Among those being: not fumbling, pass protecting, finishing runs, consistent effort. Where as usually RBs are rated by their elusiveness, speed, quickness, and big play ability.

Other thoughts I had last night but forgot to put down.

1. Was I the only one here who was secretly rooting for Buffalo to beat the "Dream Team", even though I knew I shouldn't be. Damned if they aren't a very likable team. BTW- I also believe we are going to kick their asses in December.

2.When I think about it, who to root for in other games just became a lot more difficult for me. While it will be easy to root for a Miami victory over the Jets next week, who do you root for when they play SD. Isn't in our best interest to have the 4-1 Chargers lose to the Jets as a team we could be fighting for a bye with. But as easy as it is to root FOR the Bills when its NOT in our best interests; its just as hard to for the Jets when it IS in our best interests Help me out here.

3. Dallas is a scary team, and those fans who just ASSUME that Romo will implode against us, are making the fatal mistake of all those who "assume". Romo is a very talented and good QB who makes plays....a lot of them, and he has 2 of the most talented WRs in the league, along with the guy who used to be the best TE in the league.

He MAY be too inconsistent to lead the Cowboys to the "promised land", but that doesn't mean we can rely on him giving us a game we don't deserve.

4. This is a repeat request - can anyone show me how to upload the MHK insignia to my signature.
2.

 

[DaBruinz]

6. For all the kudo's that BJGE is going to get all this week, the fact is that he is a very average RB in the NFL. HOWEVER he has 4 qualities that BB values. a. He rarely loses yds b. he will always get at least what is given d. He can get those tough yds around the GL and Short yardage and d. He doesn't put the ball on the ground.

IIRC ASmith never averaged 4ypc Yet he was perfect for what BB wanted in a RB because he had those 4 qualities, even if he wasn't among the most talent backs in the league or even the division

Its not like BB doesn't want a dynamic RB, but until he lucks into one, BJGE can provide the kind of running attack that compliments the high powered passing attack well. He's not a guy who can run for 20+ several time a year, but he's not going to risk any opportunities to get 3-6 yds in order to try and hit that home run. BB appreciates that kind of dependability

I love your posts, but I have to disagree with many things you say about BJGE.

The kid has made a believer out of me. He won't ever be an Adrian Peterson or Charles Johnson, or an Emmitt Smith. But he's better than average. He's good. And all the plusses you mention about him are what makes him good. I disagree that he couldn't run 20+ times a year. I think he could easily do that. He's just not been used that way by the Patriots. Part of which falls on Brady for the numerous times Brady has audibled out of a running play into a passing play. And, as I mentioned, he's not fumbled in over 1600 official carries.. (Pre-season doesn't count).

The defensive side:

1. If you look at the yds, 3rd down ratio, and some other stats there is certainly room to think the D showed some improvement. and they did. However they failed badly in a couple of key areas that ironically had previously been areas of accomplishment. One being Zero TO's. The other, red zone defense, where the Jets went 3 for 3. No Mayo. Ihedigbo is only a slight step up from Brown and Barrett, but his poor coverage cost the Pats at least one TD.

Remember all the positive people (including me) were touting the fact that despite all the yds given up, the points allowed in non-garbage time, was starting to improve, Well here we did well in giving up only 250 total yds, but the 21 points we gave up are too many given how few yds were allowed. Last week we gave up over 500 yds, yet only allowed 19 points, and 6 of those were in garbage time.

I hate to say this, but the 3 red zone TDs were a direct result of not having true leaders in the LBers and in the DBs.. by true leaders, I mean guys who make the correct on field adjustments. James Sanders excelled at that. Mayo is very good also..

2. Good thing we got back Dowling and Haynesworth.....I guess, Neither managed to show up on the stat sheet with a tackle, sack, or pass defended. In fact I asked myself all night if Dowling was even in the game. Now I understand I'm being overly critical. Both had missed a couple of weeks and both were "limited" at practice all week, so I guess I should be just grateful they made the effort they did. Still disappointed, since I was excited to see them back.

I did not see Dowling play much at all, but Haynesworth was a force in the run game. The problem there was the LBers (Spikes and Guyton both) were washing themselves out of plays.

5. When the Jets started to gain some traction in the run game, I thought the Pats would move into a 3-4 look but it never happened. We rarely put immediate pressure on Mangold coming off HIS injury. I thought this would be part of the strategy. I was wrong.

On several occasions, they lined Love, Wilfork or Warren up directly over Mangold.

Special teams - Mezko had a great day punting the ball, and KO coverage sucked. I think that about covered it.

Gotta disagree on the kick-off coverage. McKnight's 88 yard kick return should have been called back. If not for the illegal clip, then for the illegal 4 man wedge they had set up. I can't fault the Pats for that. Neither should anyone else..

We lost Slater and Ihedigbo, supposedly. Though I swore that Ihedigbo went back on the field, Bedard says otherwise..

 

[DaBruinz]

BJGE started the season with 5 OL who were former Pro Bowlers or All-Pros, and a passing offense that induces opponents to play pass-first. That all can help an RB ...

No he didn't. Vollmer didn't play the 1st game. Vollmer supposedly started the 2nd game (according to NFL.Com). However, Koppen was already out by then.

BJGE has not have 5 former pro-bowlers/all-pros in front of him at any time this season.

 

[Patspsycho]

Part of which falls on Brady for the numerous times Brady has audibled out of a running play into a passing play.

Brady audibled out of 2 or 3 run plays close to the goal line yesterday. I wasn't too happy with that. I think there is a time and place for everything, and when they are that close to the goal line, they just need to ram it in.

 

[DaBruinz]

2b) WTF was Tannenbaum thinking taking Plaxico over Braylon Edwards? Plax and his hands.....nothing has changed since jail. P.S....that sideline catch /overturned call should have been called inconclusive.....and a catch IMO.

Not sure how you can say it was "inconclusive" when two different angles showed Plax's foot OOB by a good 2-3 inches..

5) Points against...Pats have given up fewer points than the vaunted Jets...by 1 point

Going into the game, the pats had only allowed 3 more points than the Jets.. After the game, the Pats have now allowed 6 less points.

6) Great white north....Buffalo's secondary feasted off another QB...Do not ignore the team behind the curtain

This is Michael Vick we're talking about. Not Peyton Manning. That being said, the Bills are playing some damn good football..

8) Hernandez looked a little chunky out their...or was that me

I wouldn't say "chunky". I'd have said he looked like a guy who just got his knee brace 3 days ago and hasn't really had a chance to break it in during game conditions..

9) I thought Ghost could kick it through the endzone? Anyone see Janikowski yesterday. Raiders just let their guy tee it up from 50+ all day.

Gostkowski is currently ranked 11th with 12 TBs. He's averaging 66.6 YPK. There have been 19 returns with an average of 24.6 YPR.

It's been well known for years that Janikowski has the strongest leg in the NFL. Not sure why that is a surprise.

 

[The Scrizz]

You're going to harp on the lack of turnovers? Really Ken? Maybe you should do these after more sleep.

Every game people ***** because we give up too many yards and ignore the turnovers like they're just luck or something. Now we have the 3-step drop kid getting 5 and a half yards per attempt, a bunch of 3 and outs, and you complain about no turnovers.

Maybe if the Jets managed more than 53 plays in the game we would have had a few shots. The Jets O played scared the whole game. They ran pretty good on one drive and passed pretty good on another and did nothing the rest of the game.

You've taken as big a beating on this thread as the Jets did.

 

[Lloyd_Christmas]

I love your post-game threads ken, keep them coming.

I would disagree about BJGE. Whatever his shortcomings, he has proven to me that he is an above average back. I agree with you on his strengths and think that some here put too much weight on the ability to rip off long runs.

If another RB has that ability, but cannot consistently deliver the positive yards on the tough runs and protect the ball, is he really better than BJGE.

I say no.

I can't argue with anything else you posted, which is quite an accomplishment since you almost as long winded as me

 

[The Scrizz]

4) Can the Pats hire whoever scouts Jets' DBs?

Why? The Pats tried to trade up for Revis the year the Jets did, not like they didn't know who he was. Cromartie was a well-known, talented but inconsistent corner that they gave up a lot for.

The rest is a bunch of flotsam and jetsam. Hernandez and Gronk not being at 100% was the best case scenario for the Jets because they can't cover either of them.

And besides, they would never let Revis hold every play if he were on the Pats. It would be a point of emphasis within a week after our yearly Colts game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Your original "fact" about Green Ellis was that he is "very average". I'm just disagreeing with you based on objectively looking at the statistics from last year and through week 6 this year. His rush yards and touchdowns are higher than the league averages for RB's over that time, those are facts.

Now, if I can be subjective for a minute....BJGE is hardly an average running back. When the majority of RBs in the NFL barely approach 1,000yds let alone go over that total, he did it on a pass first, pass happy, 2 to 1 pass-run ratio team. And his totals thus far and on pace to surpass last year. An avg back would be more like a Brandon Jacobs or Knowshon Moreno type who run for league avgs of around 800yds and 8 TD's. A "very average" back would be like a Tim Hightower/Jahvid Best type guy who start for their teams but don't produce a whole lot offensively.

As far as Ridley being better, I'm not sure what you are seeing that the coaching staff isn't. If he was clearly more talented, don't you think he would have been on the field for the 4th quarter, not BJGE?

If you are going to start tearing into Ken and using facts as part of your being "subjective" then you should, at the very least, have those facts correct.

The Pats passed the ball 507 times last year and ran it 454 times. That is a total of 961 plays. 454 running plays is 47.2%. So the Pats passed 52.8%. That is a far cry from the 2 to 1 (66.6 to 33.3) you claim.

Now, that being said, I agree that there is a long way to go before we can say that Ridley is better or has more talent or has a "higher ceiling."

Right now, BJGE is a good to very good back. He won me over last year and has continued to make a believer out of me. He's had his good games and bad games, just like most Non-Elite RBs. And BJGE won't ever be said in the same phrase as Curtis Martin, Emmitt Smith, Adrian Peterson, or Chris Johnson in terms of talent or game changing ability. But he doesn't have to be..

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

4 Welcome back to reality Steven Ridley. A little too much east and west, and not enough north and south Stevie. I still believe in you kid, but you had to know that the NFL wasn't that easy.

I'm pretty sure he realizes that he wasn't thinking that he was gonna spend his career at 7-8 ypc. Still, I think these games are invaluable for his development. He needs to have some tough yards to develop. While I'm not nearly as critical as you on BJGE, I do think Ridley will usurp him on the depth chart by the end of the year. At the very least, he'll force BJGE to compete more.

Appreciate your efforts as always, however...... I'm not sure this was your best analysis to date.

 

[RIpats88]

BJGE isnt an elite back....but I would say that he is above average...how quickly people forget the maroney years when we couldnt run the ball at all...and we had a prretty good passing offense then as well....he rarely gets negative yards and never fumbles the ball.

hes not perfect for every situation, which is why we also have another above average RB in woodhead who is more crafty and more of a receiver back for 3rd down situations.

 

[patfanken]

You're going to harp on the lack of turnovers? Really Ken? Maybe you should do these after more sleep.

Every game people ***** because we give up too many yards and ignore the turnovers like they're just luck or something. Now we have the 3-step drop kid getting 5 and a half yards per attempt, a bunch of 3 and outs, and you complain about no turnovers.

Maybe if the Jets managed more than 53 plays in the game we would have had a few shots. The Jets O played scared the whole game. They ran pretty good on one drive and passed pretty good on another and did nothing the rest of the game.

You've taken as big a beating on this thread as the Jets did.

Defenses designed on the bend but not break philosophy rely on turn overs. Its just that simple. When we don't force turn overs an already vulnerable defense becomes even MORE vulnerable. We have only one TO in the last 2 games and THAT one can hardly be called "forced"

We were 14-2 BECAUSE our defense forced TO's, to go along with the best Offense in the league. If we want to be 14-2 THIS year, the defense has to approach the TO ratios we had last season. Either that, or it has to get a whole lot better....and do it fast


... And why is it I get the impression that you are secretly deriving some pleasure in watching me get "beat up"

 

[patfanken]

I'm pretty sure he realizes that he wasn't thinking that he was gonna spend his career at 7-8 ypc. Still, I think these games are invaluable for his development. He needs to have some tough yards to develop. While I'm not nearly as critical as you on BJGE, I do think Ridley will usurp him on the depth chart by the end of the year. At the very least, he'll force BJGE to compete more.

Appreciate your efforts as always, however...... I'm not sure this was your best analysis to date.

Why is it that 5 pages into this thread people STILL think I was being critical of BJGE. I can understand that one COULD get that iimpression based on some poor phrasing of my original post Since that time, in multiple posts I have tried to correct that impression....clearly to no avail.

Why didn't everyone get on my case when I so obviously criticized Ridley who, coincidentally was LAST week's flavor of the week.

BJGE is what he is. Why don't people see I was just pointing out the the reasons for his effectiveness are different from the ones we usually associate with good RBs and move on to some of the other comments I made

 

[DaBruinz]

Defenses designed on the bend but not break philosophy rely on turn overs. Its just that simple. When we don't force turn overs an already vulnerable defense becomes even MORE vulnerable. We have only one TO in the last 2 games and THAT one can hardly be called "forced"

We were 14-2 BECAUSE our defense forced TO's, to go along with the best Offense in the league. If we want to be 14-2 THIS year, the defense has to approach the TO ratios we had last season. Either that, or it has to get a whole lot better....and do it fast


... And why is it I get the impression that you are secretly deriving some pleasure in watching me get "beat up"

Ken - as was pointed out to you, forcing an opponent to go 3 and out IS creating a turnover. Would an interception or fumble be better? Sure. but the fact is that the defense stopped the offense from putting points on the board. And that is something we, as fans, have been wanting on 3rd downs. Now that we get it, it's not good???

 

[JoeShmoe]

Just my 2c but i think BJGE is just what this team needs and yesterday was the first game IN A LONG TIME that i've felt they tried to establish the run and stuck with it which made our offense so much more balanced

Ifs and buts but if only we'd have done that last January. As it is to beat the Ravens, Steelers etc in the PO's you cant abandon the run as we have done so many times in the last few years

BJGE is a tough downhill runner. Sure those 2 yarders may not rack up the stats but its the cumulative effect over 4 Q's

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting thread. Ken seems to have gotten peoples' juices flowing.

 

[PatriotFan77]

If you are going to start tearing into Ken and using facts as part of your being "subjective" then you should, at the very least, have those facts correct.

The Pats passed the ball 507 times last year and ran it 454 times. That is a total of 961 plays. 454 running plays is 47.2%. So the Pats passed 52.8%. That is a far cry from the 2 to 1 (66.6 to 33.3) you claim.

Well by 2-1 I was pointing out BJGEs rush att. vs Brady's pass att. - 229 vs 492- sorry, should have made that known. And I'm not tearing into him. I merely disagree with his original description of Green Ellis as "very average". Statistically speaking, his totals are above average amongst NFL running backs while operating in, as your post pointed out, a pass oriented offense. I believe he is a very good back. Not elite, not Top 5, but certainly better than average.