Idle thoughts - The Houston Match up. (Texan fans welcome)

[Rob0729]

I've seen them play against the Colts and the Bengals - and yes, it's hard to come away impressed with their play, overall. However, their last 5 games have been against playoff teams now. Naturally, they are going to look worse. And their failures in the past month are no guarantees that they fail this Sunday. The talent is there, and all that matters is if that group of talent executes on Sunday or not.

I thought their defense looked quite good on Saturday, granted, Dalton sucks, but they seemed to be much more competitive than when we played them a month or so ago. I also think their DBs were physical and got away with a lot of contact. We've seen that as a factor in some of our rare losses in the last several years. If that continues, that could be an issue, too.

I'm not suggestion the Patriots will lose. I believe the Patriots are the better team and most likely will win on Sunday. But this notion that it will be a repeat of the beatdown we handed them, or that the Texans are some scrub team - I'm not buying it. This isn't Tim Tebow from last year. This will be a test. They have a physical team and a tough D.

But the Texans have been fairly mediocre for a while. It just started to show up in the L column with the Pats' game. They took both Jacksonville and Detriot to overtime unable to stop either offense. They struggled to beat the Bears with Cutler inactive for the game. They couldn't put Buffalo away for 3 quarters. Those are some bad teams that they barely beat. And again, Schaub has gone nearly six games with one passing TD.

I also never said that it would be the same beat down, but barring the Pats making a lot of mistakes or coming out flat, I still think they win by 10 plus points. I think the Pats are significantly enough better to win by two scores.

 

[Kontradiction]

That man coverage was successful for four straight drives before the Pats beat it with a burner who isn't on the roster right now. Had those four drives come at the start of the game, it's a different ball game.

Zone against Brady is suicide if you can't get home with 4, and the way the Pats played Watt, I'm not sure Houston can.

I expect Houston to play largely the way it did before and hope for better execution. The unfortunate thing for them is that Gronk is back, and he beats any coverage you want to throw at him.

What should scare the rest of the NFL is if Gronk is 100%. This is a guy who was just a tick below Tom Brady in importance to our squad last year. He is one of the best players in the NFL, period. I think people nationally are quick to forget that.

The other interesting thing about Phillips is that he is one of the few teams to actually play us in their base D (according to Reiss, they only went nickel when we went 3WR). Our 2TE normally draws a nickel group, and granted, Gronk was out, so it may be different this week. Phillips is an arrogant, stubborn SOB, he's the same guy who said he was more afraid of our run game than Brady before we ripped them up in Dallas in '07. Even though Brady has torn his D apart the last two times, I don't expect him to change his approach. The problem is for Houston, we can throw all over a base D, and we can still run on most base Ds.

This game will most likely come down to whether we can block JJ Watt as effectively as last time.

I'm not saying that they're going to go with all zone looks. What I'm saying is that I expect them to give us a lot more zone looks than they did and do a lot more disguising.

 

[BradyManny]

I also never said that it would be the same beat down, but barring the Pats making a lot of mistakes or coming out flat, I still think they win by 10 plus points. I think the Pats are significantly enough better to win by two scores.

No disagreements here. I also think they should win by 10 or more. Just want to caution the people around here who think that is a guarantee.

The remaining three AFC teams are all teams we should handle if we have our A game. It's simply going to be a question of execution.

 

[Rob0729]

No disagreements here. I also think they should win by 10 or more. Just want to caution the people around here who think that is a guarantee.

The remaining three AFC teams are all teams we should handle if we have our A game. It's simply going to be a question of execution.

In the playoffs, there is no guarantees. Just ask the Super Bowl favorites from last year, the Packers.

 

[IllegalContact]

for what its worth, welker had a bad game against the texans.....and no gronk.....plus, shiancoe is gone

just sayin'

 

[BradyManny]

In the playoffs, there is no guarantees. Just ask the Super Bowl favorites from last year, the Packers.

Exactly.

Patriots fans should be confident, not ****y. That's all.

 

[IllegalContact]

Exactly.

Patriots fans should be confident, not ****y. That's all.

there are no laurels for this pats team to rest on.....I think the niners game and tha jags game was all they needed to wake up

 

[TexasTradition]

you are forgetting that the texans also had sharpton and dobbins for the previous game. in all, the texans are no better than they were in the first meeting, and if anything, are weaker on defense. at least they had mercilus behind reed......they have nobody behind dobbins and sharpton

That was my point on the Cushing loss. We took a risk trading Demeco Ryans this offseason for future cap purposes. We could not afford to lose Cushing after that, and we did. After Cushing, the drop off is already there. They are all the same. They all suck. Bradie James was always the #2. And for what its worth (and it aint much), James had a better game than Dobbins in our last matchup. But yes, losing Dobbins does make us even thinner at this position.

Our offseason will be heavily focused on the right side of Oline, and getting another stud ILB to play along side Cushing when he returns. Last year these were strengths of our team and despite the other teams knowing what was coming, we still could not be stopped. This year, teams know whats coming... And we can not force our hand like we used to.

Look, I have very little confidence in us pulling this off. We should have beaten the Bengals by alot more, we are STILL settling for FGs. That is NOT going to cut it against you guys. But if there is one take away from the bungals game, is that we were able to run at will vs Geno Atkins and that front 7 and we controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the entire game. I do think your LBs are a much stronger unit and much better at making the open field tackle than Cinci's LB unit so it may not mean a whole lot.

Minimal penalties (lol yea right), no turnovers, controlling the TOP, new wrinkles in our gameplans, and executing in the redzone will all have to be managed for us to even have a remote chance. But this is still a game, it has to be played, someone has to win, and anything can and does happen in this crazy game we love.

I do think this Texans team has a TON of heart, is a very close TEAM, and will be playing as if they have nothing to lose. I mean, it cant get any worse for us than in our last meeting right? RIGHT?! (this is me trying to be optimistic).

 

[JackBauer]

Exactly.

Patriots fans should be confident, not ****y. That's all.

I'm pretty sure we can rest our starters and still win by 30+.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments and some things we'd better get used to.

1. We'd better get used to the fact that we are going to hear a LOT of talk about the Jets playoff loss from the media this week. Unfortunately, on the surface it is well deserved. However I would like to point out this. In 2010, BB was only into his 2nd year of what amounted to a complete rebuild of the Pats roster.

That team over achieved to a great extent, and was ripe to be upset. Shocking though it was back then, THIS team is a much better one that in 2010 on a lot of levels, both on the playing field and the coaching staff, but most importantly in their ability to absorb adversity, and adjust on the fly. Bottom line, the chances of a return to Jan, 2011 are a lot longer now.

2. We'd better get used to the fact that EVERYONE will be picking the Pats this week. Can't get around it. As good as the Texans really are, by every metric the mediots use to compare teams, the Pats will come out ahead.

For a guy like me who relishes the underdog role, this is almost an uncomfortable situation. I actually look forward to a possible AFCCG at Denver when we truly WILL be the underdogs again.

3. Where are the Texan fans? In the first game we saw a plethora of them here, and they were very active, knowledgeable and remarkably well behaved. Now despite being lauded by by us and welcomed back, only a few have chosen to return. I would have thought that Texas football fans would be tougher than that.

4. I can see from the banter our fan base is pretty much divided into 2 groups. On group who feels that a team with as much talent as the Texans do, has a reasonable chance to beat the Pats if they don't come out and play well. They will be the ones talking about the Jet game. They will be ones quoting "any given Sunday". They will be the ones telling us that the blowout in December would have been different if only a few plays turned out differently.

The other group are those that look at all the comparative metrics and say, simply, "no way that the Texans can beat the Pats in NE".....and all the worrywarts should stop wringing their hands and acknowledge that fact.

Depending on what day it is, I am a proud member of both groups.

5. Personally I look forward to seeing the defense with all its parts back together and what it can do. I want to see if it can continue its upward progress because every team we can possibly play on the way to a Lombardi win, will be a top 10 offense except the Ravens, who gained the most yds of any team in the first round, and the Packers, who when healthy has a top 5 offense. So the Defense BETTER be prepared to step up

I look forward to finally seeing this offense with BOTH Gronk and Hernandez in relative good health.

I look forward to seeing how really committed Josh is to the running game, or our we going to abandon it at the first sign of adversity.

 

[IllegalContact]

james is a 2 down LB.......he is useless in the passing game......at least there was a little coverage with dobbins and sharpton.


geno atkins? really? is he anything like vince wilfork? LMAO

it can get worse......just ask the rams.......and the colts.....and the jets.....and the bills.....and the dolphins......it can get worse.

the pats have had a history of doing that to wade phillips' defenses

That was my point on the Cushing loss. We took a risk trading Demeco Ryans this offseason for future cap purposes. We could not afford to lose Cushing after that, and we did. After Cushing, the drop off is already there. They are all the same. They all suck. Bradie James was always the #2. And for what its worth (and it aint much), James had a better game than Dobbins in our last matchup. But yes, losing Dobbins does make us even thinner at this position.

Our offseason will be heavily focused on the right side of Oline, and getting another stud ILB to play along side Cushing when he returns. Last year these were strengths of our team and despite the other teams knowing what was coming, we still could not be stopped. This year, teams know whats coming... And we can not force our hand like we used to.

Look, I have very little confidence in us pulling this off. We should have beaten the Bengals by alot more, we are STILL settling for FGs. That is NOT going to cut it against you guys. But if there is one take away from the bungals game, is that we were able to run at will vs Geno Atkins and that front 7 and we controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the entire game. I do think your LBs are a much stronger unit and much better at making the open field tackle than Cinci's LB unit so it may not mean a whole lot.

Minimal penalties (lol yea right), no turnovers, controlling the TOP, new wrinkles in our gameplans, and executing in the redzone will all have to be managed for us to even have a remote chance. But this is still a game, it has to be played, someone has to win, and anything can and does happen in this crazy game we love.

I do think this Texans team has a TON of heart, is a very close TEAM, and will be playing as if they have nothing to lose. I mean, it cant get any worse for us than in our last meeting right? RIGHT?! (this is me trying to be optimistic).

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Look, I have very little confidence in us pulling this off. We should have beaten the Bengals by alot more, we are STILL settling for FGs. That is NOT going to cut it against you guys. But if there is one take away from the bungals game, is that we were able to run at will vs Geno Atkins and that front 7 and we controlled the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball the entire game. I do think your LBs are a much stronger unit and much better at making the open field tackle than Cinci's LB unit so it may not mean a whole lot.

Minimal penalties (lol yea right), no turnovers, controlling the TOP, new wrinkles in our gameplans, and executing in the redzone will all have to be managed for us to even have a remote chance. But this is still a game, it has to be played, someone has to win, and anything can and does happen in this crazy game we love.

I do think this Texans team has a TON of heart, is a very close TEAM, and will be playing as if they have nothing to lose. I mean, it cant get any worse for us than in our last meeting right? RIGHT?! (this is me trying to be optimistic).

Geno Atkins is a beast. No bones about it, but Wilfork is a different kind of beast. If Vince can do what he did against you guys the first time, it will be tough for that O to do what they thrive doing. However, Vince has been isolated in the biggest games and others have been unable to win their matchups. It's not our defenses ability to make the open field play as much as it is to win the battle in the trenches and not let it get to the open field.

It was strange. The first two plays against us (though one was called back), Foster ran for 15 yards a piece. After that, it's almost like BB saw what was wrong and made the adjustment. Any insight from the other side on what was going on with that o-line that game?

 

[TruthSeeker]

How everyone is so certain we'll beat a team of comparable talent is beyond me.

Do I think the likelihood that we execute well enough to win is high? Yes. But this dismissive attitude towards the Texans is surprising. They've been one of the best teams in the league for two years. They have one of the best core group of young players in the league.

All it takes to win or lose any game against a good opponent is a play or two here and there. If Patriot fans have not learned that by now, both in our favor and then much to our dismay, I'm not sure what they've been watching the past decade.

The Texans have played mediocre football for a full 8 games now. I think the talent level is irrelevant; the level of football being played is what we should strongly consider.

The Patriots have a good run defense and are a disciplined team. These two strengths negate two of the Texans primary weapons on offense (running game and play action).

The Texans are a very favorable match-up for the Patriots as Schaub is not likely to beat you with his arm and the Patriots have been susceptible against the pass. On the other hand, Tom Brady's quick decision making and release proved vital in helping to reduce the impact of J J Watt and keep drives alive. I'm not anxious at all (but then again, it's not time for the kickoff. )

 

[IllegalContact]

Geno Atkins is a beast. No bones about it, but Wilfork is a different kind of beast. If Vince can do what he did against you guys the first time, it will be tough for that O to do what they thrive doing. However, Vince has been isolated in the biggest games and others have been unable to win their matchups. It's not our defenses ability to make the open field play as much as it is to win the battle in the trenches and not let it get to the open field.

It was strange. The first two plays against us (though one was called back), Foster ran for 15 yards a piece. After that, it's almost like BB saw what was wrong and made the adjustment. Any insight from the other side on what was going on with that o-line that game?

BB called a time out less than a minute into the game and that was that.....the ravens had zero success in isolating wilfork in the AFCC last year.

 

[TexasTradition]

james is a 2 down LB.......he is useless in the passing game......at least there was a little coverage with dobbins and sharpton.


geno atkins? really? is he anything like vince wilfork? LMAO

it can get worse......just ask the rams.......and the colts.....and the jets.....and the bills.....and the dolphins......it can get worse.

the pats have had a history of doing that to wade phillips' defenses

Like I said, BOTH Dobbins and James are useless in the passing game AND against the run. While there is a drop off in athletic ability, James at least has the experience playing for Phillips in Dallas and calls a better game in the middle. Neither are game changers and the liability is there regardless who plays in place of Cushing. Our ILB position has been destroyed by injuries this year.

Cush is an absolute BEAST and we are a different team with him on the field. With him, we had a chance. We dominated offenses and his loss was when deep down inside I knew our chance at a real run was over. It hurt bad:

Brian Cushing Highlights - YouTube

And did you really just LOL @ Geno Atkins??? The dude is one of THE best DTs in the game today.

Never said he was better than Vince, but was merely pointing out that it was still progress and unexpected after the way we have been running the ball recently. But again, that had alot to do with Foster making the cinci LBs look silly. Geno still had a strong game but he wasnt as much of a factor as I was expecting.

How we handle Vince will be HUGE in this game. Historically, our undersized but athletic line has had trouble with stout DTs as we saw in our last matchup. I expect Vince to do more of the same this week. But will he have as great of a game as he had last time? PFF shows that was by far his best game of the year against us and will be a major focus for us in slowing him down a little like we did against Atkins and Cincy. Easier said than done I know.

We are going to have to come up with something new to get Schaub into a rythym. What that is I dont know, but we will have to be quick and precise in our passing game. Schaub missed Foster wide open for big gains a couple of times. We must get him involved in the passing game along with utilizing BOTH our TEs this time around.

 

[TexasTradition]

It was strange. The first two plays against us (though one was called back), Foster ran for 15 yards a piece. After that, it's almost like BB saw what was wrong and made the adjustment. Any insight from the other side on what was going on with that o-line that game?

With us in the middle of revamping our Right side of the line we lost projected starter Rashad Butler at RT for the year early on. The right side of the line is a weakness as it takes a long time to gel in this zone blocking scheme. So basically teams started loading up on our left side (our strength), and pay zero attention to the right side, thus shutting down the run game, which makes us even more predictable, limits play action, and even more easier to handle without 2nd TE Garret Graham in the lineup... Who was out for our first matchup. I was distraught when he was ruled out the first time, because I knew how important he was. Will be interesting to see how having him back will help in both facets. He will allow us to open up our playbook to its full capacity this time. (Again, this is me trying to be optimistic)

 

[SeymourTrophies]

BB called a time out less than a minute into the game and that was that.....the ravens had zero success in isolating wilfork in the AFCC last year.

The Giants had lots though. It can be done.

True story though, Matt Birk probably had nightmares about Vince last offseason.

 

[patfanken]

With us in the middle of revamping our Right side of the line we lost projected starter Rashad Butler at RT for the year early on. The right side of the line is a weakness as it takes a long time to gel in this zone blocking scheme. So basically teams started loading up on our left side (our strength), and pay zero attention to the right side, thus shutting down the run game, which makes us even more predictable, limits play action, and even more easier to handle without 2nd TE Garret Graham in the lineup... Who was out for our first matchup. I was distraught when he was ruled out the first time, because I knew how important he was. Will be interesting to see how having him back will help in both facets. He will allow us to open up our playbook to its full capacity this time. (Again, this is me trying to be optimistic)

Still waiting for some Texan fan feedback on whether we are likely to see something different from Wade Phillips on defense this time around?

As to the rest of your comments. Having your 2nd TE will be a help I'm sure, but don't you think that it will be vastly outweighed by the addition of the best TE in the game to and offense that put up 42 points on what was then, the best defense in the league?

I think last time, without Gronk, the Wade tried to take Welker out of the game and did a relatively decent job of it (3/53yds) However Lloyd showed he can beat your man coverage (9/94yds) and the 8 catches by Hernandez proved your point about your LB's inability to cover. The addition of Gronk not only multiplies your defensive problems, it probably will open up more opportunities for Wekler,

The other thing I took from the Cinci game was that BJGE ran for a 6.6ypc clip. We know and love BJGE, but he's definitely NOT a 6ypc kind of guy. I think Cinci made a big mistake not giving him the ball more (only 11 carries).

Granted the Texans did a great job vs the Cinci offense, but the Pats OL is light years better than the Cinci one. Steven Ridley has been an upgrade over BJGE, and any comparison of Andy Dalton to Tom Brady is down right laughable. Finally the Pats crowd is pretty knowledgeable and Brady will have full reign to communicate with his team as they run their offense - fast or slow. Matt Shaub won't have the same luxury.

At any rate, I look forward to your answer to my question

 

[shmessy]

However Lloyd showed he can beat your man coverage (9/94yds) and the 8 catches by Hernandez proved your point about your LB's inability to cover. The addition of Gronk not only multiplies your defensive problems, it probably will open up more opportunities for Wekler,

In all fairness, Ball was out and IIRC Joseph was a gimpy gametime decision. Their secondary is in better shape this Sunday.

 

[TexasTradition]

Still waiting for some Texan fan feedback on whether we are likely to see something different from Wade Phillips on defense this time around?

As to the rest of your comments. Having your 2nd TE will be a help I'm sure, but don't you think that it will be vastly outweighed by the addition of the best TE in the game to and offense that put up 42 points on what was then, the best defense in the league?

I think last time, without Gronk, the Wade tried to take Welker out of the game and did a relatively decent job of it (3/53yds) However Lloyd showed he can beat your man coverage (9/94yds) and the 8 catches by Hernandez proved your point about your LB's inability to cover. The addition of Gronk not only multiplies your defensive problems, it probably will open up more opportunities for Wekler,

The other thing I took from the Cinci game was that BJGE ran for a 6.6ypc clip. We know and love BJGE, but he's definitely NOT a 6ypc kind of guy. I think Cinci made a big mistake not giving him the ball more (only 11 carries).

Granted the Texans did a great job vs the Cinci offense, but the Pats OL is light years better than the Cinci one. Steven Ridley has been an upgrade over BJGE, and any comparison of Andy Dalton to Tom Brady is down right laughable. Finally the Pats crowd is pretty knowledgeable and Brady will have full reign to communicate with his team as they run their offense - fast or slow. Matt Shaub won't have the same luxury.

At any rate, I look forward to your answer to my question

To be honest I am not sure how Phillips will approach this game. What I do know is the big plays killed us, the offense stalled, and you jumped out to a big lead quickly. We do not play well from behind at all. Tho we did have some spells where we forced a few 3 and outs, and did not take advantage. Gronk will obviously only make things more difficult.

But my point with Graham is this. We are going to have to sustain more long drives to win this game. Having the ability to use our bread and butter formations with Graham will put us in a better position this time around to have a chance to do that. Basically, controll the clock and keep your offense off the field as much as we can. The number of possessions yall had was unnacceptable. When we are on, we chew chew chew up the clock and in the past have eaten up what seems like entire quarters with methodical, effective drives. And they cannot end in FGs. Essentially, a better offense will have to be where our improved defense is found this time around.

Foster has played in 3 playoff games now, and has rushed for over 100 in each. He will at least need to get his yardage in the passing game this time around, and find a way to get to the second level consistently on first downs when he carries the rock. If he has a big game, and our TEs are blocking well, and getting open quickly, it will allow us to find AJ on key plays.