Idle thoughts - The Houston Match up. (Texan fans welcome)

[BananaRepublican]

the last game was a total beat down by the Pats and it wasn't because of poor execution of the Texans.

I'd agree that primarily the Pats' game plan was other-worldly better than Houston's. I also have to conclude that Houston's offensive personnel (mainly Schaub) limit what they can call.

But then who can forget the safety biting on the play-action that went to Lloyd? Geez, lack of execution there if we ever saw it.

As I remember it the Stallworth TD was a sorta botched job too. He ran right by guys who seemed to get confused about who had him.

Can you imagine Gronk running that seam next week?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

gronk and hernandez back on the field against houston unlike week 10...i like it

 

[Bhelmet]

IMO, it will be far more important to have the same D personnel healthy than the O. We have proven to be an O that can overcome injuries - this D will have a harder time trying to overcome some of the injuries they are dealing with.

 

[RIpats88]

IMO, it will be far more important to have the same D personnel healthy than the O. We have proven to be an O that can overcome injuries - this D will have a harder time trying to overcome some of the injuries they are dealing with.

after all their time off, I hope Talib/Dennard are good to go...

I was under the impression that both most likely wouldve played had it been a playoff game.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

after all their time off, I hope Talib/Dennard are good to go...

I was under the impression that both most likely wouldve played had it been a playoff game.

Shanahan woulda played 'em

 

[Bhelmet]

after all their time off, I hope Talib/Dennard are good to go...

I was under the impression that both most likely wouldve played had it been a playoff game.

I hope that is the case - and it may be, but noone from the Pats organization calls me to let me know.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

after all their time off, I hope Talib/Dennard are good to go...

I was under the impression that both most likely wouldve played had it been a playoff game.

talib played in jax with his bad hip...he will play

 

[Ring 6]

Yes it was only 13 (as I typed later in my post) not 14.... my error but doesn't change that it is a lofty win total. It seems whatever the Texans do has a rather obvious and positive result most of the time (results that most teams wish they could replicate).

The Texans did not execute well and it was reflected in the score. If they would have executed better would they have won? No and I said about as much....but better execution could have made it competitive. For example, it was 21 to 0 at half time. The Patriots had 6 meaningful first half possessions. Three 3 and outs, one Patriot TD that was greatly aided by a PI call on a 3rd and 10 (that was poor execution by Texans), one TD by the Patriots where AH split out wide and, literally, had no Texan go over and line up to cover him (again, poor Texan execution).
The Texans offense had 5 meaningful possessions in the first half: a drive to the Patriot 21 end on a 2nd and 8 with a very poorly executed pass plus two drives end around the Patriot 35, both on 4th and 5 turnovers on downs.
If the Texans don't commit PI, don't throw an absurd Int and can complete just 1 of 2 passes for a measly 5 yards? Halftime likely goes from 21-0 to 14-6. That isn't rosy for the Texans but it remains a one score, competitive game at halftime.
Next Patriots TD approaching mid 3rd quarter (and the one that arguably puts the game on ice and sees the Texans start to pack it in) is a 65 yard TD to Stallworth. When you give up a 65 yard TD there is likely some level of poor execution on the defense side (see the Patriots v 9ers game for an example of that).

Again, would the Texans have won if they executed? It still is not likely but a one score game at halftime is a vastly different game than 21 to 0 at halftime. But remember this is Foxboro in December where the odds say there is little chance anyone wins. Where every gameplan fails at a, what is it, 95% clip?
But if you think a 13 win team needs to do it differently to win versus doing what has got them 13 wins (except executing it well)? I guess we should hope they don't change.....should make the chances of a Patriot victory very high....

So let me understand. Any team that isn't good enoigh to make a play didn't execute so not being good enough is an excuse for losing that means next time you will be?
My God, we destoyed that team. Now we are saying a TD drive doesn't count because one play had a blown coverage, a pass interference, that was the reason the WR didn't catch the pass isnt a real play, an interception is luck, a 65 yard TD pass isn't really football, and doesnt count.
If all of those plays don't count which ones do? Does the 15 yard run by Foster not count because the DL didn't execute not getting blocked?
Can we bring Sergio Brown back and have a probowl safety if he just chooses to execute?

 

[Rob0729]

- I never suggested everything hinged on one thing. Patriot execution, game planning obviously aided in their win. This does not nullify that their victory was helped along by some Texan miscues.

Name a game where a team played perfectly and got blown out. Fact of the matter is that in every blowout, the losing team has their fair share of miscues. Many of the miscues are caused by the other team.

- It was a very borderline PI call. Arguably should not have been called IMHO. Some agreed, some disagreed after the game.

Marginal or not, it was pass interference.

- The uncovered AH play was likely aided by the potency of the Patriot offense and hurry up ability, however, he split far right (almost to the sideline) and, literally, no defender went to that side of the field. Even the Jets know to send a cover man over to line up on a receiver that far from the line.

The Pats and a lot of other teams end up having receivers uncovered a lot. Again, you seem to be making too much of these mistakes.

- That is EXACTLY the point. IF it was a closer game then what plays are run, how the game transpires changes. It is no knock on the Patriots to say a few plays changed the complexion by halftime. Same thing with the Patriots versus 9ers. Just a few plays different and the complexion of that game changes at halftime.

There is a difference between arguing a team changing their gameplan in a three TD lead in the first half and claiming a few mental errors changed how the Texans played.

- Yes I see a pattern. If the Patriots execute some other plays better they could have won by more. Not sure how that makes your point? As the point you made is execution of X plays could change the game....

Just showing you the better execution argument goes both ways.

- You say "people recreating"? Ok, so if I say people just blindly assume team A was unbeatable and team B couldn't beat it's way out of a wet paper bag just by looking at the final score, is that as applicable to the point of discussion?? The argument is, if the Texans executed better on a handful plays with their gameplan, would it have been competitive? If you see that as recreating the game? Ok..... I disagree.

The fact of the matter is the Pats won by 28 points. And it probably wasn't that close. The best argument you can probably give is that if the Texans executed better, they might have only lost by 14 to 21 points. If the Texans executed better, they still would have gotten blown out. Because the Pats would have executed better late in the second and in the third rather than working on exploiting the deep pass on third downs.

 

[Rob0729]

I'd agree that primarily the Pats' game plan was other-worldly better than Houston's. I also have to conclude that Houston's offensive personnel (mainly Schaub) limit what they can call.

But then who can forget the safety biting on the play-action that went to Lloyd? Geez, lack of execution there if we ever saw it.

As I remember it the Stallworth TD was a sorta botched job too. He ran right by guys who seemed to get confused about who had him.

Can you imagine Gronk running that seam next week?

Tell me a game over the last month or so where the Texans didn't have poorly executed plays. They have been a horrible red zone team over that time because of poor execution. They had poor execution on defense yesterday, but the Bengals couldn't capitalize on it either.

Fact of the matter, when a team lose by 28 points you are going to find plenty of horribly executed plays. Many of those horribly executed plays are caused by the other team.

Also, the Pats had their fair share of poor executed plays and mental errors. All you have to do is look at the first two plays of the game. They give up a big run by Foster because of poor execution and tackling followed by a timeout because the Pats had 13 men on the field. Poor execution is magnified by the losers in a big loss.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

So let me understand. Any team that isn't good enoigh to make a play didn't execute so not being good enough is an excuse for losing that means next time you will be?
My God, we destoyed that team. Now we are saying a TD drive doesn't count because one play had a blown coverage, a pass interference, that was the reason the WR didn't catch the pass isnt a real play, an interception is luck, a 65 yard TD pass isn't really football, and doesnt count.
If all of those plays don't count which ones do? Does the 15 yard run by Foster not count because the DL didn't execute not getting blocked?
Can we bring Sergio Brown back and have a probowl safety if he just chooses to execute?

A+B does not equal F.....a leap in conclusion. Please point to where I said "Any team that isn't good enough to make a play didn't execute"? And if it is assumed because of my seemingly audacious belief that a handful of plays that the Texans did not execute (versus the Patriots making a really good play) aided a blow out versus a more competitive game, then I guess the opposite assumption is true? Teams do not benefit from an opposition's lack of execution on some plays, they do it all on their own.

I gave some specific examples of where Houston should have executed better. The Int? That was a poor Int, a very poor throw, and not a particularly awesome play by the defender. The PI call? It was borderline PI call to begin with for a defender/pass that didn't need to commit PI. Two plays, two largely unforced errors, two instances of needing better execution by the Texans, a 10 point swing. Those two make the score 14-3 at half.

Why does that observation make you and others seem almost afraid? What, the Patriots can't win a game by making some good plays along with the opposition making some poor choices that facilitate a lopsided score?

I think the Patriots will win this game. Check the Hou v Cincy gameday thread just as the game ended, you'll see where I stand on that. But it is no stain on the Patriots to believe if the Texans don't turn over the ball on a stupid throw, don't commit penalties on defense on third down, complete a 5 yard pass on 1 of 2 occasions, actually line someone up over a receiver..... they may make the game competitive. And that a 12 win team does not need to proceed like a 9-7, lucky to be there team in its game plan to give themselves a chance to win. You disagree? So be it.....

 

[zipster9]

Tell me a game over the last month or so where the Texans didn't have poorly executed plays. They have been a horrible red zone team over that time because of poor execution. They had poor execution on defense yesterday, but the Bengals couldn't capitalize on it either.

Fact of the matter, when a team lose by 28 points you are going to find plenty of horribly executed plays. Many of those horribly executed plays are caused by the other team.

Also, the Pats had their fair share of poor executed plays and mental errors. All you have to do is look at the first two plays of the game. They give up a big run by Foster because of poor execution and tackling followed by a timeout because the Pats had 13 men on the field. Poor execution is magnified by the losers in a big loss.

I think most folks will agree this time around, the score will be a closer.
It will come down to turnovers and no self-inflicted mistakes.

Texans got back a few defensive players, that did not play in 1st meeting.
Patriots dont have Stallworth, so that is a loss (Branch is too slow).

I just hope Patriots do more of those play-action fakes one-direction, and instead, go the other direction. That seemed to work multiple times against
Texans.

 

[JMC00]

Texans got back a few defensive players, that did not play in 1st meeting.
Patriots dont have Stallworth, so that is a loss (Branch is too slow).

Uh you're forgetting about the best TE in the league.

 

[zipster9]

Uh you're forgetting about the best TE in the league.

Yes, forgot about the Gronk. Hopefully, that broken arm does not impede his running/catching/blocking in the game....

 

[supafly]

Yes, forgot about the Gronk. Hopefully, that broken arm does not impede his running/catching/blocking in the game....

The break occured on Nov.18th, so he'll have had the benefit of a full 8 weeks rest by Sunday. The bye helped that scenario out a lot in my opinion.

On top of that he looked pretty good a couple of weeks ago vs Miami, so another couple of weeks should be great for that issue.

 

[SVN]

What the Texans are saying - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

What the Texans are saying - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Thanks for posting the link -- interesting to read so many different players' quotes. For the most part (not quite all) I think they all said the right thing (spontaneous or scripted framework?). Kubiak's quote: "We understand the challenge that we have. That is what is awesome about this league: it’s the ultimate challenge. We’ve earned our right to go back. We want to go back and play a heck of a lot better than we did."
I realize it doesn't amount to a hill of beans what he or anyone says, however, his comment of the situation (my personal interpretation) 'tough challenge, honored to be in this position, we better play better than we did' is a decent one. And while I was probably one of only a few that actually found entertainment in Rex's big mouthed buffoonery, I have a level of appreciation for a coach that respects the gravity of the situation/the game itself.
Sunday can't come soon enough.......

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Lost in the 42-14 box score was about 20 minutes of the Pats and Texans going toe to toe rock 'em sock 'em robots style. The Texans defense got their bearings and forced 2 or 3 three and outs. Gronk's presence will be huge, because if it weren't for a 3rd down prayer to Stallworth which totally took the wind out of the Houston sails, we would have done nothing on offense for two straight quarters. Houston has not seen Gronk yet, which could, if he's healthy, be the difference on Sunday.

Defensively, Wilfork ran wild against the Texans. Houston can't let that happen again, but we were the thinnest we had been all season at that point on defense. Jones is back and healthy, Cunningham is back, Spikes is rested, Hightower is rested.

All that said, I'm still worried, but I'm not nervous. For the first time in a while, I haven't hated the team we're playing. If we can't win it, I'd rather it be the Texans than anyone else.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The Pats will win this game for the simple reason that they cannot lose it. They will not go "one and done" in Foxboro in one of the diminishing handful of Playoffs in which Brady will play at the top of his game. Take that to the bank.

That said, I don't think that the outcome of the game will be resolved until deep in the Fourth Quarter. I don't like playing a second game against good teams that are "on a mission" after we embarrassed them the first time we met. A turnover late in the game would be disastrous, but I don't see that happening. In other words, if I were a betting man I'd regard that opening nine point spread as too good to pass up and take the Texans and the points.

 

[BradyManny]

How everyone is so certain we'll beat a team of comparable talent is beyond me.

Do I think the likelihood that we execute well enough to win is high? Yes. But this dismissive attitude towards the Texans is surprising. They've been one of the best teams in the league for two years. They have one of the best core group of young players in the league.

All it takes to win or lose any game against a good opponent is a play or two here and there. If Patriot fans have not learned that by now, both in our favor and then much to our dismay, I'm not sure what they've been watching the past decade.