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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Sep 30, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Well guesss what? It isn't going to be easy rooting for this team. They don't seem to do anything easily, or at least make it easy for their fans.

    1. Mayoiclinic made a great point in a thread that this was a statement game by the Pats. I'm not sure if we are at the point where we are at a "statement game" stage, but I do think it DOES say a lot about the team's character.

    After 2 VERY tough losses. Not having your best offensive lineman and one of your WRs. THEN droping behind by 2 TDs AND losing one of your top ILBs and the crowd-is-going-wild That is hardly ideal.

    Then you have have the Gronk drop 2 TD passes AND fumble. And then have another of your go to guys, Welker, fumble and BOTH turned into 2 TDs..... If there was a time for this team to just let it get to them and figure that it just wasn't their day. This was it AND they didn't. The defnese makes plays and the offense just isn't stopped...or even close to stopped and what might have been a rout against them, turns into a blowout for them..

    Make no mitake. This team had its meddle tested today.....and they passed with flying colors. That is what I think is the single most important thing to take from this game

    2. ThaT, and that the offensse is good. Lets break it down.

    OL - Its getting better all the time, Even when Brady started to get pressured he had time. I don't think that there was a single pass play where he didn't have at least enough time to get the ball off in rythm. That's outstanding

    And the running game was even better. If you consider how often Boldin and Ridliey got into the 2ndary untouched, they both better have gotten 100 yds rushing. That being said, both ran hard and smart

    TE- Gronk had his worst game as a Patriot and I still wouldn't trade him for any TE in the league. He blocked very well and caught enough balls to make him a threat. I don't have any idea why Fell catches an easy 20 yd pass and is never used again , but more on that later. Dr Hooo was also underutilized

    WR - Quinitcential Brandon LLoyd. He isn't big, fast or quick enough to get off of good press coverage, But he can run a great pattern and beat you for a TD if you don't watch itl. He's also willing to run the inside routes that will shack him free.

    Aside from the fumble Welker was outstanding again and made one HUGE 3rd down catch that was outstanding

    RB's anything I'd say would be redundant. but don't forget that the the Woodhead catch was a key adjustment at a very KEY moment of the game

    QB - Brady got better as the game went on. However I really wish he'd sometimes take the easy play over the hard one.

    What I mean they had no problem hittinng any TE on short routes, or even Weller on the short outs, yet at a key time in the game when they really need a first down, on a 3rd and 2 they go and try a back shoulder fade on a closely guarded LLoyd.

    Hey Josh, it's 3rd and 2. If you don't want to run it, a play action pass was open EVERY time. Why on earth do you throw a pass like th back shouloder fade, where so much has to go so perfectly , when you can accomplish the same thing so easily several other ways.

    I also have to ask why they stayed away from the TE's for such a long stretch of the game and that includes Gronk. Now granted its hard to complain when your offense just put up 50 points and close to 600 yds of offense (in fact ludicrous), but we ran the same play in the last drive of the Raven game, and I didn't understand it then.

    I love the back shoulder fade, but there is just too many things that have to go right vs what you need to happen. The back shoulder fade is a high risk play....there should be a high reward.e Its just not the pass I'd pick, especially when there are so many other options

    So I guess when it comes down to it, in that horrid 2nd quarter, the Bills didn't really do anything to stop the Pats offesne. For the most part, they stopped themselves. We needed to go back to things that worked at the start of the game and keep doing it untill until the defense proves they can stop it. I don't think we do that enough. It seems we always seem to be in such a hurry to get to the next great offensive concept that we forget what already has worked.

    Just a thought.

    Defense

    3. I was looking for Hightower and Jones to rebound after what I thought were sub par games vs the Ravens (especially Hightower). Jones didn't disappoint. (does he ever? ;) ) And neither did Hightower.......until he got hurt. That was a shame.

    4. We aren't nearly as good a defense when all 3 LBs aren't in there. I'm sorry but Tracy White is NOT an adequate replacement for Hightower Spikes or Mayo. I miss Dane Fletcher. I wouldn't be surprised to see another LB brought up from the PS if Hightower is going to be out more than a game.

    5. I hopw people didn't miss that great play Ninko made on CJ Spiller in the open field on a short catch. Just a super play and sure to be dismissed by his haters. The strip sack wasn't bad either. We should always be so lucky when we go looking to pick up FA long snappers.

    6. McCourty continues to improve his game. But the fact that someone caught a pass somewhere near him and the fact he plays on the the QB' right side and right handed QB tend to throw the ball more to the right, so it proves that he sucks. If hi ball skills were better he'd have at least 4 picks in 4 games. But then again, if his ball skills were better, he'd be a WR.

    7. For the record it looked to me that Arrington was man to man on Jones on that long pass for the TD It looked like man across the board which accounted for no one being in the middle and caused the TD. Either that or a blown coverage assignment by one of the S's

    8.Overall I think the defense did make some progress in their 4th week. 3 of the 4 TDs were the result of turnovers, and 2 were simply great passes. Not a lot the defense (Chung) could do. More importantly, the Defense held the #1 rushing team to less than 100 yds, and some of that in garbage time. Plu they didn't it without a key feature in Higfhtower.

    Lets not forget that this is perhaps BB's youngest football team, so ups and downs are bound to occur.

    9. Sorry long suffering Bills fans, the Bills have about one chance in 10 of beating the Pats, and they let that chance slip away today. I still think they are getting better, but they are't ready to take on the Pats just yet. OTOH, I will be very disappointed if they don't crush the Jets down the road. No excuses there.

    10- Speical teamss did a great job today.....except for Gonzo. Still 49 yd FG's in outdoor stadiums like Buffalo are NOT gimmes. No excuse for the 40 yd one though

    I'll be looking forward to Bedards all 22 break down next Thursday to see how all my 'impressions" track with reality.

    BOTTOM LINE: This offense could be pretty much unstoppable by the end of the season between all the receiving and rushing targets. Meanwhile if you can't see the improvement inn the overall defense, to go along with the problems, then you just not a happy unless you are unhappy.

    The defense already is better than last season and hopefully will continue to improve as the season goes along. Still hoping to see a game when we will really attack the passer, biut I'm not holdikng my breath on that one. :O
  2. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    The only way this game says anything about our character is if our youngsters come back down to planet earth next week...

    ... otherwise it's 2010-11 all over again.
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats have never done things the "easy" way, especially in September. The 2003 team won ugly all the way to a 14-2 record and the SB. I doubt BB includes "make it easy for the fans" among his priorities. We're very privileged, and very, very spoiled.

    After 4 weeks we're tied for the lead in the AFC East, we're leading the NFL in scoring, and we're showing much more balance than teams in previous years, including defense and the running game.

    Why exactly do you feel that it's not easy to root for this team, Ken? I can't say that I see the problem.
  4. manxman2601

    manxman2601 On the Roster

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    In the Draft thread I had to do a mea culpa as regards the O/Line. I think the McDaniels boo-boys need to do the same. Only the second OC in history to draft an offense that featured two 100 rushers and two 100 yd receivers. A great gameplan, executed poorly in the first half and spectacularly in the second.

    On defense, the only weakness in that game was defending the middle, our safeties are weak and whilst our linebackers are great, they can't defend a pass to save their life (Mayo did well twice to give him credit). aside from that, a really good defensive performance and special credit to McCourty and Ninkovich who had much better games.

    And I love the more balanced offense, always been a fan of a good running game, nice to see the Patriots execute it

    Oh and excellent OP btw.
  5. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Thank you for the 'debbie downerism'. In other news, the Pats won this football game.

    Ken, our defense needs a lot of improvement in the secondary. This isn't news by any means. We did have the dead last ranked secondary last year after all. The question is which safety gets replaced. I think Tavon Wilson will eventually force himself into a starting role. But will he take over for Gregory or Chung. Both of them looked pretty bad/got beat at times. Chung is a good in the box safety, but does he have the coverage skills to justify being out there on 3rd and longs?
  6. BananaRepublican

    BananaRepublican Banned

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    Doesn't matter, he has the nice looking porn queen.
  7. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    That's my main issue as well right now. Josh seems to outsmart himself sometimes IMO. This offense is too good to have to get cute.
  8. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Maybe he's just talking about the negative effects on our cardiac health :)
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Spikes deserves a mention today his hit in the goal line to force the fumble was Butkus like, perhaps the play of the game. As well as when he Crushed F Jackson to force a funble.

    His presence almost by itself make this a physical defense capable of intimidatig.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2012
  10. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    I like the heart of this team, and I love the good young players finding their identity.

    BTW, Tavon Wilson is so underrated for his playmaking. He left his mark on the game again, today with limited snaps. I'm already more confident in him than I am in Arrington or Moore.
  11. PP2

    PP2 Rookie

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    That wasn't Brady's first read, IIRC.

    I actually think this game is a turning point. I foresee us going on an extended win streak.
  12. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

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    So wait if they play well next week that's a negative thing?

    I think Josh did a much better job today. I only recall 3 plays that really seemed bad. Overall besides Gronk with a side of WW I thought the offense was really impressive today.
  13. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

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    Jeez man, get an editor.
  14. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    The New England Patriots offense only turned over the ball twice.

    The New England Patriots defense for the second consecutive week allowed over 300 net passing yards and at least 28 points.
  15. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    You are right tip. IIRC one drive started aroundthe 20 (the Gronk Fumble) Another drive started on around the 35 after the Welker fumble. The 3rd TD came on the 71 yd short pass and run, which occurred on the most eggregious play the defense made. That was the 3rd and 15 slow developing screen pass the Bill converted just before they hit that big play. There is no way a team should be able to run a screen pass and get 15 yds in that situation. There was no blitz. There wasn't even a hard rush. It was the one play where I was really ticked at the defense. It was the first play were I really felt the loss of Hightgtower

    The last TD was a garbage time drive if there ever was one.
  16. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    That Buffalo Bills touchdown should have never occurred.
  17. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Of all the plays, that 3rd and 15 was the one that will still piss me off later in the week....and I'm sure it will be the one BB will rail against. Even the long TD pass and run won't last as long
  18. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    Cause and effect. Offense turned the ball over on a very short field twice. Not to mention the two missed field goals. Sure 28 points is 28 points in the box score but its not like buffalo moved the ball up and down the field at will on this defense. Field position was key for all but the blown coverage too D Jones.

    You could say the same thing for some of new England's scores as well but I think they had 4 drives of over 60 yards to add to those bills mistakes.

    Ill take a 300 yard passer any day as long as he adds in 4 turnovers with it. The defense was stout against the former number 1 rushing attack taking away what they do best making them 1 dimensional. It wasn't pretty in the box score but I think they played a lot better than the numbers portrayed.
  19. ATippett56

    ATippett56 Rookie

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    The Buffalo Bills only scored 7 points off turnovers in the game. The Wes Welker fumble was offset by C.J. Spiller fumble caused by the vicious hit delivered by Brandon Spikes near the goal line.

    NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at Buffalo Bills - 2012 Week 4

    I'm not as concerned about the New England Patriots offense especially considering the status of the following offensive players prior to the Buffalo Bills game:

    Mankins - out
    Hernandez - out
    Edelman - out
    Gronkowski - questionable
    Vollmer - questionable
    Vereen - questionable
    Fells - questionable

    The New England Patriots defense allowed 438 total net yards against the Buffalo Bills.

    NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at Buffalo Bills - 2012 Week 4

    Someone on the New England Patriots defense please make a tackle on that play! :mad:

    I'm not sure what your point is here.

    I was hoping the New England Patriots pass defense would improve upon the Baltimore Ravens game. At least Fitzpicksix lived up to his nickname, as he is currently tied for the league leader in interceptions.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  20. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that many of the problems that we have seen in the secondary so far through 4 games show a lack of adequate safety plan altogether.

    I am admittedly not claiming to be an expert, but it is my opinion from the casual fan's standpoint that the CB's have improved significantly at times, while the play of the safeties is something much worse.

    I think that Chung is extremely overrated as a whole, although I do respect his ability to play physical and he adds strength up the middle. I just think that he is downright awful in coverage though, just borderline horrible.

    Gregory has not really impressed in coverage either, although it is still too early for an kind of justification on that opinion.

    T.Wilson had looked promising in some phases, but the reality is that he is a very green rookie who cannot be relied on in coverage at the current moment. That is not a knock on him, just pointing out that we don't seem to have anyone who can offer much at the position in terms of coverage right now and it really hurts the backend in my opinion.

    Then again, maybe I am being too hard on them. I am interested to see what others have seen so far, and whether or not they see the position of safety as our biggest weakness on the team right now?
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