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Idle thoughts - one down, 2 to go.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Jan 14, 2013.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    1. I have to say that when the board went down. I missed it. When Ian figures out what happened, I hope he informs us and if we can help in some way, he lets us know.

    2. I sincerely hope fans and media don't second guess and look to blame BB or the Pats for Gronk reinjuring his arm. As BB said in his post game, if the doctors say they can play, he plays them. Its horrible luck that we have lost him again. It just is. This is a great offense. It can be even greater with Gronk playing. Unfortunately we are going to have to wait until next year to see what that looks like. Until then we are stuck with what we have. Fortunately that doesn't suck.

    3. Its the pure Patriot way to have prepared a lot of great things all week for Woody and Gronk Ias Brady alluded to postgame.) and then lose them BOTH in the first series.....Then within 2 series they had reset the offense and managed to score 41 points on a top 10 defense over the next 3 and a half quarters. Kudos to Josh, Brady, Vareen, and Hooman

    4.Back in the 2010 draft, I didn't mind that we draft Vareen, and I didn't mind tat we drafted Ridley, but drafting BOTH in consecutive seemed like a wasted pick to me. Mea Culpa - Now it doesn't ;) - Vareen showed us that he can fill that 3rd down back role well. and showed some the explosive plays that caused us to draft him BEFORE Ridely. . Yeah the 3 TD's, the great hands, and 5.5ypc are fantastic, but what stood out to me was how well he blocked the blitz. Vareen got an opportunity and made the most of it....in true Patriot style.

    5. I'm going to assume that Woody will also be IRed. Now the Pats are left with just 3 RB's. Good running backs, productive RB's, but RB's that only have 5 years of experience between them. So I ask the question do the Pats go out and add a RB, or do we take a chance that we can make it through the next 2 games with just 3.

    OR with the Pats put out a call to Kevin Faulk and hope he's in shape or is there someone else out there like Sammy Morris who knows the system and could come in and at least be the 4th back

    6. But the real story of this game, imo was the continuing maturation of our Defense.

    Over the first 3 quarters the Pats D allowed only 13 points and all of those points came on drives of LESS than 45 yds. Now in the end, the Texans piled up a ton of yard, over a 3rd of them came in the 4th quarter after the score was 38-13. So I'll go by what my eyes saw and not what I read in the final box score and here is what I saw.

    I saw a run defense completely shut the one of the best run games in the league completely for all but one drive in the first half and only 90 yds total, and half of those were gotten in garbage time. I saw a defense that got off the field on third down 74% of the time (11 out of 15) I saw a secondary that contested every down hill throw and tackled very well.

    In particular I thought Wilson did a very nice Job on Daniels. He seemed to be right on him most of the time. Interesting that he, not Chung seemed to get most of the 3rd S snaps. I thought this might be a big game for Chung, but all it did was confirm that he won't be back after this season. But who knows with the Pats, next week he might be the key performer. I doubt anyone had Shane Vareen as their playoff fantasy RB. ;)

    Andre Johnson got close to 100 yds again and was a beast for the Texans, but Talib made him earn every one of those yards. Steve Gregory didn't provide us with any highlight big hits, but he did defend and tackle extremely efficiently. Finally McCourty didn't make any big plays that were obvious to us, but I have to think that his positioning and range was one of the reasons, that, IIRC, the Texans RARELY tried to go deep on the Pats, which was a bit surprising to me.

    BOTTOM LINE - I like this defense. I'm starting to like it a LOT. Sure the offense has been damaged, losing Gronk and Woody. It will make it a lot easier for teams to cover Wes Lloyd, and Hernandez. BUT, unlike last year, THIS defense doesn't need to be carried by the offense This unit is starting to show that it can share the load with the offense, and very soon be capable of carrying the load for short periods.

    7. I have to say I got a woodie when Brady tossed 2 outlet passes to the RBs early in the game. I have been begging for that from Brady, since I kept seeing RB's open in the Jets loss in 2010. I'm sorry I didn't see more of it. I hope that the success he got out of it tonight, plus the success the Texans had dumping the ball off to Foster, will put the seed in Josh's head that THIS might be a good idea going forward.

    8. On the negative side - 2 things. First, going in to the game the Pats had one of the best KO coverage teams in the league....and they sucked all but one time. That HAS to get fixed. Secondly, the Pats could muster very little pressure on Shaub with just a 4 man rush. They did do much better when they blitzed however usually getting a man free in those situations.

    Also you can't be happy giving up 15 points in the 4th quarter, and all those total yds, even if they were in garbage time. Just not a great precedent. Too much of a reminder of the bad old days when we gave up double digit leads to both the Ravens and Seattle.

    9. I read in PFT that JJ Watt spit on the Pats logo and rubbed it in with his feet....BEFORE the game. Good thing LT wasn't around to see it. :D. Not that it bothered me much, but still diminished Watt a bit in my eyes. Just more BS, childish behavior that show why the Texans aren't mentally ready to take that next step, to where their play matches their talent. Letterman jackets and spitting our our emblem isn't going make you any more intimidating. "GROW up JJ, this is the NFL."

    Besides according to NFL.com JJ got credit for a half a sack (which came very early in the game) and 3 tackles. IIRC what hits the Texans got on Brady came from Smith more than Watt. In other words JJ didn't get much return on his saliva. ;)

    10. No even Jet fans can complain that the Pats got the calls from the officials. Far from it. The "forward progress fumble", cost the Pats a turnover at the Houston 20. The ref who obviously was going thru the "change of life" cost the Pats a TD when he hit Lloyd with 15 yds for throwing the ball too hard. Also Foster hand hit the ground BEFORE he got the ball to the 1st down marker on that 4th down. Plus I have to wonder if what Gregory did was worth a flag, what about the time Welker was crushed when he was defenseless.

    All that being said, the fact that by and large the refs kept their flags in their pockets and there wasn't a sing PI, IIRC made this game go much faster. Even with the bad calls, I prefer games like this to games where every other play a flag is thrown.

    10. Some quick thoughts on the Ravens

    A. On the plus side, I don't think the Raven's OL is not as good as Texans have, (3 all pros) and with the injuries to Ngata, and Suggs, they don't have anyone who can rush the Pats like Smith and Watt. So I predict our 4 man pass rush is going to improve a bit, while the chances of Brady getting hit a lot is going to decrease.

    B. No question that the Ravens, unlike Houston, is going to test our secondary DEEP. Torry Smith and Aquan Bolden are just too good not to. Both are big tough guys who excel at winning the ball even when well covered. IMHO its the #1 threat and should be the #1 topic of discussion this week in the strategy threads.

    C. I am a lot less fearful of Ray Rice's running. He's not near the threat that Foster was, and we handled THAT reasonable well. Where I DO fear Rice is in the passing game. Screens and dump offs make me worried.

    D. We need Daniel Fells to go from a healthy scratch to a viable 2nd TE receiver in the course of a week. He doesn't have to be Gronk. He just has to catch about 3 balls and take someone out of coverage.

    11. Just peeking ahead to the superbowl - In a playoffs riddled with rematches, it would seem that should we win next week, we should be getting another shot at the Niners. Of course they present a myriad of problems, which, hopefully we'll have 2 weeks to get into, but on the plus side, a Niner win next week, will likely mean that the Gronkless Pats, would likely be a Superbowl UNDERDOG. :eek: Rodney and I would very much enjoy that.status again :D
     
  2. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    if this team goes to the SB, even barely beating BAL, and SF destroying atlanta, i bet we will still be favs
     
  3. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Agree that Vereen's bltz pick-up was terrific and great to see.
     
  4. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Good points as usual, Ken.

    If Faulk starts coming into the office this week, he could be ready to go for the Super Bowl.

    I really worry about the Ravens' big play capabilities ... but as you point out, we have a much better FS than we used to.
     
  5. CityOfChampions

    CityOfChampions Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm very nervous about Flacco just throwing it up and either his receivers making a great catch or a PI flag. Not as worried about our offense.
     
  6. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Pro Bowl Player

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    Pats contained Andre Johnson pretty well. I think they will give a lot of attention to Torrey Smith. I know Boldin is a good receiver but he's not a big play guy. I'd rather give up 10 yard plays here and there then get gashed for 30+ yard touchdown receptions.

    Ray Rice's versatility as a pass catcher will be a problem, but he's always been a troublesome player, as long as we stop the Ravens from running effectively though, I like our chances.
     
  7. Jercules

    Jercules Rookie

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    I'm scared of the Niners b/c without Woody in the last game, we'd have been crushed, and Woody is now hurt.

    Foster and the Texans' o-line have a horizontal, zone-blocking style different from what the Ravens do. Rice will be a force. My hope as a Pats fan is that Talib shuts Smith down OR... they double Smith, and sic Talib on Boldin.
     
  8. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Brady
    Welker
    Hernandez
    Lloyd
    Vereen
    JAG TE

    is a pretty tough matchup problem for any defense, 49ers not excepted.

    Yes, it's a lot easier than if the last guy on the list were Gronk -- but it's tough even so.
     
  9. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Dennis Pitta is balling at present. I suggest he's the one guy the Patriots may need to look at very closely.
     
  10. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think we could potentially help by creating more members, which in turn would help to offset the costs involved.

    To be honest, I actually thought about starting a thread a couple of weeks ago wondering if any would like to join me in becoming paid members to help celebrate our (hopeful) SB appearence. Kind of like a "let's make a deal" scenario where if we make it there are more people who sign up. My only fear was that we may fall short, and that wouldn't serve much of a purpose. At the end of the day, there are less than 100 paid members. Today I noticed that there were close to 2,000 people on here, so 1/20 is a paid member.

    The one and only thing that's been preventing me from becoming a paid member is the fact that I have been in school, and that the subscription renews itself every year automatically, but when you figure that the cost really isn't all that much in the big picture, and that Ian has provided us a place to talk football all year long, it really is the right thing to do.

    Something for all of us to think about, myself certainly included...
     
  11. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think the thought certainly exists to want to double Smith in some form, though of course the drawback is that it will limit us a bit in our aggressiveness and what we're able to do.

    I know one thing, I don't want to see another 2 TD performance by Smith, and he certainly reminded me of what he's capable of by destroying Champ Bailey on several occasions.

    I don't think that Talib is capable of handling him on his own, no.


    The Boldin/Talib matchup would certainly be okay, and the thought of doubling Smith is understandable. That said, I still somehow doubt they start out doing it.

    One would imagine that the Ravens will definitely continue to be aggressive in their deep shots, and that they'll try to allow Flacco to sling it. That could end up being both a good or a bad thing.
     
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm sorry, but it's been conclusively proven that Wilson was a wasted 2nd round draft pick. Just like Vereen. :p Who knows? Maybe Ras-I Dowling will even surprise a few people next year, after we have a few "the invisible Ras-I Dowling" threads.

    I thought our defense looked the best of any of the 8 defenses this weekend, including Seattle minus Chris Clemons, and arguably San Fran with Justin Smith less than 100%. I don't see Baltimore puttiing up 31 points this time around.
     
  13. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa In the Starting Line-Up

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    Echoing the thoughts on the defense. Even the completed passes were tightly contested for the most part. Dennard and Talib at cb have really changed the dynamic of this secondary. Allows McCourty to move to FS and take away the deep ball. His play this coming Sunday might be the key to the AFCCG.

    All we're going to hear about is how close Baltimore was to beating us last year. How many will mention we have new starters at all 4 positions in the secondary? Edelman won't be covering Boldin this year.

    Ray Rice isn't as explosive as he was when he first came in the league. What back is? Still have to stop him first. Bernard Pierce appears to have injured his knee and aggravated it Sat. He's been a help to their running game. Make Baltimore throw. Take their deep pass away and make Flacco be accurate underneath.

    Also, Webb was playing at a pro bowl level last year. He's gone. Suggs might have been the defensive POY in the league last year. Not the same player coming off of his achilles. Ngata is beat up. Lewis is beat up. They don't have Jarrett Johnson and Redding either. They are not the same defense. We scored 30 on them earlier when they were healthier. Suggs was still out. But, the rest were playing. Gonna do the same this week 30+.
     
  14. Gumby

    Gumby 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #11 Jersey

    Me too. Was so focused on full-screen game that I didnt have time to jump to board til game end; and then just got frustrated since it was up -pregame.

    Good luck on that one. The only way to get your mediot credentials in NE is 2nd guess BB.

    Good question; but at this point I doubt Faulk is still in shape. Think at this point we are what we are. I think any decent street FAs were scooped up by guys who already exited the season. Any extra RB they add more likely will be more for ST / practice (shadow team) work.

    Good, but still short periods. But BB teams always seem to give up TDs in 4Q of playoffs. BBDB for 3Q and then something always clicks for the opponents (often injury related back in the first 2 SBs, but still has been a consistent theme. Would like to see them become a dominant D; but oh well......in the post-Polian era 'it is what it is' = O is king.

    BINGO BINGO BINGO. Can anyone say WIDE OPEN RB for the 1D on the infamous SB Wes Welker 'Drop'.

    On the FLIP SIDE; MESKO was DA MANNN!!!!!!!! Ghost also was pretty good. 3 kicks were (IMO) returnable; the rest he pinned fairly deep (manning took at least one out he should have just downed). and he tackled once :D Real ****ty that the coverage was so poor that on only 3 returnable kicks they got 2 really deep runs.
    agreed on the let them play; but in addition to the ones you mentioned the lack of holding calls and the 'hands to the face penalties were a little one-sided as well. The ball-spotting was terribly one-sided.

    Flacco has some great NBRS in this last game and some of the others he has won this season. Didnt see all those games; but my impression from Denver was that he THROWS UP RAINBOWS. He is just living off BIG-TALL WRs who can take advantage of small S and CBs deep. IMO he is not throwing with accuracy or away from the coverage. Hopefully Pats can have McC or other in right place.

    That said Torrey is scary fast. Gotta cover the top.

    IMO Foster was more dangerous in dump offs (Hou just didnt use him enough). IMO Rice himself isnt more scary; just Pats ability to cover while covering TEs at same time slightly deeper in same part of field is i think what makes it threatening.
    agree w/ sentiment; but one at a time just for my personal sanity (not as a shameless BBisms). too much to think about already w/ Ratbirds.
     
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you choose you can listen to the soccer moms from 6-10 AM on WEEI.. they will have some really good conspiracy theories about playing Gronk, and will spread the hysteria..

    I am going to be in NOLA for the SuperBowl.. do not have ticket, but am staying with family who they tell me they "know people"... that would take care of a a big bucket list item.
     
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Baltimore sruvived by chucking the ball long against Denver, succeeding with a combination of terrific catches (admittedly on well thrown deep balls by Flacco) and terribly coverage by Denver. I think that Talib/Dennard and McCourty will contest things much more, and it won't be at all like the first game against Baltimore earlier this year.

    I also think that playing Houston's TEs is good preparation for Baltimore. I think Wilson will hopefully be the big nickel guy, and between him and HIghtower I think we can contest that area pretty well, and at least make Baltimore work for it. I have a hard time seeing Joe Flacco play 2 good games in a row. It makes me laugh to see all this stuff about him suddenly being "elite" and a "top 5" QB all of a sudden. That means he's in the class with Brady, Rodgers, Brees and Manning. :rofl:

    On offense, I just don't see the Ravens being able to slow down the Pats offense, since pretty much no one has. It's a bummer that we'll never really get to see it in its full glory this year, but that just means it will leave some room for the offense to be even better in 2013. I'd love to see Welker, Vereen, Hernandez and Ridley on the field at the same time.

    Ray Lewis played into a second overtime period in his first game back, and he's 37. His body will have a hard time recovering. Ed Reed hasn't been making the game changing plays that he used to - he has to be respected, but he's not the same player. Ngata is banged up, Suggs isn't full strength. The Pats put up 41 on Houston with relative ease, and I think they'll do something like that against Baltimore.
     
  17. Haterproof

    Haterproof Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'll be out there as well. I'm a New Orleans native who currently lives in Houston. I pray to GOD NE plays in the SB & wins that shiny Lombardi trophy! I'll cry like a baby if NE wins number 4 in my hometown. The Dynasty did start in New Orleans!
     
  18. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    Congrats. I hope you get to the game. I was in NO when the Pats met the Bears in 85 (actually 86 to be accurate, but that distinction always confuses). What a great time, even with the loss. IMHO the Superbowl should ALWAYS be in NO.
     
  19. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    I am hoping that Woodhead would be ready in three weeks. Gotta get by the Ravens, but then maybe he'll be ok for the Super Bowl.
     
  20. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No Jersey Selected

    Breer already started questioning the Gronk thing last night on Twitter.

    --------
    Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
    Obviously terrible too. Have to question the timing of his return. RT @inatsel: @AlbertBreer no terrible feeling for Gronkowski?

    Albert Breer ‏@AlbertBreer
    Probably b/c Pats won their game, Skins didn't. And Griffin's a QB. RT @steelz022 @AlbertBreer Yet Shanny takes heat. While BB gets a pass?
    -----------


    Um, no, big difference from RGIII. You could see early on that he was struggling and compromised in a way that would be an issue every single play. Plus the nature of the injury and how it could affect his entire career. Gronk could have gone 100 plays without landing on his arm the way he did last night. And I don't think a broken fore arm threatens the career of a TE.
     
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