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Idle thoughts....its my party and I'll rant if I want to....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Jan 26, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    Sorry about the obscure reference to a rock song from the early 60's, but try as I might, I'm getting ticked off with the so called “experts” early analysis of this game. We may be the early favorites according to Vegas, but that just a factor of money. The expert analysis is clearly leaning toward the Giants.

    Now the fact that the mediots seem to favor the Giants doesn't piss me off. Why would it? First off, no likes being the underdog more than I. And second, I know that you can make a very compelling case for the Giants to win this game. The fact that they are favoring them doesn't bother me in the least. What is aggravating me no end is the gross inaccuracies and faulty logic that they are using in making their predictions. Here are just a few “for examples”

    MEDIA - The Giants get the edge because Brady is coming off a bad game, while Eli is on a 5 game hot streak

    REALITY – No one is doubting that Eli is a having his best year as a pro, and is quickly coming out of his brother's shadow, However I find incomprehensible that these guys seem to ignore that Eli is coming off a game were he BARELY completed 50% of his passes, while in an admitted poor game Brady managed to complete 61%

    MEDIA – Brady is coming off a game where he threw 2 picks and had 2 more which were called back because of penalties. While Eli put up over 60 passes without a pick

    REALITY - While they weren't great throws, both of Brady's picks were absolutely fantastic plays by the Ravens. 9 times out of 10 NEITHER of those balls end up being caught. And as to the 2 that were called back, one was ball that bounced off of Welker's chest, a perfect pass, and a legit flag. The other was a heave, when Brady knew he had a free play.

    But here's what I don't understand what the media ignores. In the NFCCG Eli had one throw that was just flat out dropped, and TWO that were in the hands of the defender, only to knocked out by their own man. If he didn't have his brother's horseshoe up his ass, Eli easily could have had 3 picks. Yet somehow it never gets mentioned or even considered in the comparison

    MEDIA – The biggest advantage for the Giants is the pressure they will surely bring from their defensive front 4 -

    REALITY- This completely ignores that fact that the Pats have one of the best OL's in the league. They ignore that they have 2 first team all pros on the the line, and another guy who should be. They ignore that the Pats put up fantastic numbers on offense against some of the best pass rush teams in the league.

    And while they are over hyping the Giants DL, and underestimating the Pats OL , they are completely ignoring some serious issues about the Giants OL. Why aren't they being questioned. The Pats gave up one sack in the AFCCG, against the 3rd best rushing attack in the league, while the Giants OL gave up SEVEN (plus an amazing 20 QB hits).against the 7th best.

    Well I know a Borges-like media puke would respond that “Dah. you can't compare the Pats DL with that of the Giants DL”.:rolleyes: Well I say at least in the playoffs, you CAN.. You might find it interesting to know that in 3 games the Giants “all world”, “unstoppable” DL have accumulated 9 sacks, while in just TWO games, the “4 guys who just happen to rush for the Pats”, have accumulated 8. In total D the Giants have allowed JUST 4 yds less per game than the Pats.

    There is no question that the Giants have a very good pass rush, but I'll take my chances going up against that pass rush with OUR OL, which did a good job against one of the best pass rushing teams in the league versus a Giants OL that got Eli beaten up worse than a …...than a.....its hard to finish this simile without possibly offending SOMEBODY, so feel free to complete the thought yourselves, because I know you get the idea. ;)

    Why do the experts question an OL that has gone up against 6 of the top 10 sacking teams (Eagles, Ravens, Giants, Cowboys, Miami (twice) and Denver (twice) and only allowed 13 sacks in those 8 games. That they scored over 30 points in 6 of the 8 games, and lost only one.

    The Point is that the Pats have PLAYED 8 games against the best pass rushers in the league and have allowed LESS than 2 sacks per game. (in fact it would have even been better without the 4 sacks the Dolphins got in week 16 when BOTH Light and Mankins were late scratches)

    Again, I'm not just being another Pats homer, I'm just wondering why these paragons of football knowledge are simply ignoring facts that are readily available to them. The real facts are that these are two teams that had pretty horrible defenses (the Pats finished 31st and the Giants 29th ) that got both healthier and better at the end of the season, and into the playoffs. Like I said, if you look at their playoff stats they are remarkable similar. In total yds a mere 4ypg separate them. In points just 2 ppg. In sacks, just 1 sack/game

    Just for credibility's sake, I wouldn't mind if they said the Giants defense was better because they have had to beat the 1st, 10th, and 26th best offenses in the league(total yds), while the Pats went against the 15th an 23rd best. THAT is a legitimate point to defend that position, not the crap misinformation they are giving out. And there are others as well. Certainly enough that if I get bored enough waiting for this game to finally come about, I might to a “case for a Giants win” thread., but with legitimate and logical points. NOT the stuff I'm hearing so far from these so called experts. Maybe they are saving their best stuff for next week. At any rate, to paraphrase BB, my plea is that they “DO THEIR HOMEWORK” before putting their collective feet in Rex Ryan's mouth. ;)

    …..I'll close on a more positive note: Could this week be ANY worse for the Jets and their fans. AND while I take pleasure in the agony their FO and players must be going through (except for Santonio, of course, because we all know that he doesn't give a sh!t. ;) ); I can't help but feel a “little” compassion for their fan base, who might be watch their window of opportunity close for ANOTHER 40 years. :D
  2. Jared

    Jared Rookie

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    Hug it out bro.
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Awesome post. I really have nothing to add, very well put stuff!
  4. PlainOldEd

    PlainOldEd Rookie

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    Rented mule? :deadhorse:
  5. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    As usual.... Awesome stuff.

    I actually started a similar thread (yours articulates the point better). It's almost like the media is making it seem that we some how BACKED into this game and we don't deserve to be there, and following the logic down...... have no shot at winning.

    I personally think that from a straight up "football" perspective, of all the NFC teams that made the playoff's, only Atlanta would have been a more favorable opponent.

    Giants are very good, are certainly red hot and could easily win this game......... But it's not like they were at the "top" of many statistical categories in the regular season. We all did want to face them, but that because of the history and we're biased in that way....... but bottom line, this Giants team is not super scary from an statistical football sort of way. The best thing that have going for it is that have the proven mental toughness to win this game..... which coincidently you can make the same argument for the Patriots.

    You'd NEVER know that from the media though. It's like 2007 all over, cept this time, the Patriots don't have a chance against the "vaunted" New York Football Giants :confused:

    It's all good though. I hated the position we were in back in 2007 and it never was a comfortable feel for me going into that game the way we did (so heavily favored). This is a perfect set up for a huge win for us.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  6. borg

    borg Rookie

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    The Giants handled the Patriots in Foxborough!!.....Why shouldn't the experts believe in the Giants again?
  7. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I think the point is, the Giants hype goes WAY BEYOND just believing the Giants will win. It's reaching Patriots can't win at some levels (BSPN for instance).
  8. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    ken

    This happens because you look at facts and draw conclusions.

    The other guys have a conclusion then torture 'facts" to support their conclusion.

    Look at our village idiots. Has being proven wrong left them any less embolden?

    Not really.
  9. Haley

    Haley Rookie

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    Additionally I would argue that the 2 that were brought back never would have been attempted if the flag had not been thrown prior to the attempts. Those were "freebies" as I remember things. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I love how the media even the local media are saying in the playoffs that Eli is the better QB. Based on one game. Brady against the Broncos could have easily put up 500 yards and 8 TDs if they didn't take the foot off the gas. Brady has a bad game which wasn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be and now Eli is the better QB? I think it is hilarious.

    Yes, Brady is going up against the better defense in the Super Bowl, but I would take Brady over Manning anyday including a week from this Sunday.
  11. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    Didn't we just go through the same exact exercise a week ago with all those that proclaimed the Ravens were going to win, because they beat the Patriots in the playoffs two years ago?

    My first inclination was that you're being sarcastic, but based on the majority of your comments this season I'm going to assume that not only are you serious, but you agree with them.

    So the logic is if Team A beats Team B the first time they meet, then they should do the same again, correct?

    Did you feel the Bills should have been favored to beat the Pats in December because Buffalo won in September also?

    Consider this: how has Bill Belichick and his coaching staff done facing a team for the second time, after losing the first time around, since Tom Brady became the starting quarterback? A grand total of only two such losses in eleven years.

    Can the Giants win? Of course they can; they are a good team playing at a high level right now. But logic like 'they won last time, therefore they are going to win this time' is just as superficial and flawed as the reasons why Denver was going to win (Broncos were moving the ball and would have won if it wasn't for the turnovers - while disregarding the adjustments the Pats made on defense and not crediting them with the forced turnovers) or why Baltimore was going to win (the equally meaningless and inconsequential stat about the two teams records versus teams that finished the season with a winning record.)
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  12. Theplayer

    Theplayer Banned

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    It's not if Eli is better than Brady, it's who has the better match up..Eli vs the Pats defense or Brady vs the Giants. It's not far fetched to think that Eli could have a better game. Brady's recent track record in the play-offs against very good pass rushing defenses is not that great.

    I don't agree with the people who say that Brady can't have 2 bad games in a row. It''s all about the defense he's facing.
  13. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

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    Presumption of FACTS by the media.
    1. Eli was an ok QB in 2007, now Eli is eliteand maybe he's surpasses Brady
    2. Patriots defense is almost a historically worst ever
    3. The Giants defense is as good as it was in 2007
    4. The Patriots offense is an even scratch from 2007 (no improvement, not worse)
    5. Because the Giants beat them in Foxborough, the Giants will have the aadvantage on a neutral field
    6. Giants are much improved since that game because they got Key Playmakers back. Patriots are the same team it seems (though we know they aren't)
    7. Patriots have a losing record to Tom Coughlin and will continue to lose
    did I miss many. Maybe I'll follow up with some of the reasons we can win, but duty calls.
  14. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I suppose I'm one of those "village idiots" you're talking about. I haven't really been proven wrong yet. If anything, my analysis about the defense throughout the season was proven right when Belichick was still tinkering with the line-up in the last week of the regular season against the Bills (McCourty to safety, Moore to CB) plus re-inserting the 3-4. He saw there was problems with the personnel that he had and has done his damndest to fix them. So far, it has worked.
  15. E1Downey

    E1Downey Rookie

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    Rob I LOVE this too and not in the sarcastic kind of way hehe. I want them to keep singing this ridiculous song all the way to kickoff on Feb 5th. I want them to sing it as loud and as often as they possibly can!

    I want this because, I think it pisses Brady off more than we could ever know. I am one of the many who think that the Tebow hype actually did drive TFB crazy and that it "Lit a fire" so to speak.

    So hopefully they keep up with this bologna, and it really pisses Brady off and then he shreds that NYG defense to shreds! I hope they dominate this game! I hope they go up early and NEVER let up.

    Pedal to the metal until that final whistle is blown, even if they are fortunate enough to be up by 35 points! That is my superbowl fantasy lol
  16. E1Downey

    E1Downey Rookie

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    I may be wrong but, I think one of the reasons for some of the late tinkering on D may have been due to losing Carter in Week 15.
  17. BadMoFo

    BadMoFo Rookie

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    One thing's for sure, whoever wins this one will be saying, "no one thought we could do this. No one gave us a chance."

    hate that.
  18. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Love the homer outrage. And which part of what I wrote is the sarcastic part.....Am I not allowed to understand why the experts might like the GMen better?

    Maybe the "experts" watched the Pats/Giants game two months ago and saw the Giants pressure Brady and abuse the Pats DBs.

    Maybe the experts saw the Giants snap the Pats multi year home winning streak...then realize the SB is in a neutral site without that Pats home advantage.

    And are you comparing the 2nd Bills game, vs a team that had lost 8 out 9 going into the Pats game, with this Giants SB against a team that has one 5 in a row, beating the best D and 2nd best O on this run.

    Yeah ....how dare the experts believe in the Giants....bunch of clowns they are!! Frankly, I'm surprised the Pats are favored at all. The Giants possess 2 strengths that the Pats are vulnerable against....a pass rush and an accurate passer. And it seems funny to dismiss the 2007 game....sure most of the players are new, but the coach is the same coach that has devised schemes to beat the Pats.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  19. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    "Handled" Borgy? Are you sh!tting me. At first I thought you were being sarcastic, but I guess being viewed as the village contrarian is more important that intellectual integrity. "Handled"? :rolleyes:

    Did you forget the fact that the Pats had close to a 100 more passing yds, DESPITE turning the ball over 4 times. "Handled"?

    Did you forget that the "almighty" Giant defense allowed the Pats over 450 yds of offense, again, despite the 4 turnovers "Handled"

    Did you forget that "unstoppable" Giants pass rush managed hold Brady to "only" 342 yds. "Handled"?

    Did you forget that the Giants scored MOST of its points AFTER the Pats lost BOTH their starting safeties mid game, and Spikes as well. "Handled"?

    Did you forget that on BOTH of the Giants last 2 scoring drives were helped by 2 key PI calls, one of which was very questionable, the other a horrid play by Sergio Brown on a ball that was never going to be caught. - Gifts "Handled"?

    Now I'm not saying that the Giants didn't deserve to win that game - To paraphrase BB, "they made more plays that we did". BUT, Borg......HANDLED?. Hardly, not even close. That game was close fought, tight game, won by the team that made more plays on THAT particular day. Nothing is likely to change a week from Sunday.

    HANDLED? :roleyes:
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    Do your Homework, Borg! How can you call allowing 250 yds of passing offense against a team that lost their 2 starting safeties "abuse" :rolleyes:

    The 2007 game is irrelevant,. and you know it. :rolleyes:
    Now that is a legitimate point. You should have used this in the first place rather than the drivel you've espoused to this point.

    Well here we agree. I was surprised too, especially given the media's current spin. Lets see who is the "underdog" by the KO time, Not that it will matter. Even at -2.5, its essentially an even game

    Accurate passer.? Are talking about the guy who was a career 58% passer before this season, and in his best year is merely at 61% passer or the guy who had a 52% completion rate in his LAST game. :rolleyes: And that “unstoppable pass rush”. Is that the one which has only one more sack in 3 games than the "pathetic" one the Pats have. :rolleyes: Again Borg, Do your homework
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  21. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    Another myth vs reality thing the media is trying to sell us is the impression they give that when the Pats and Giants first met, the Giants were missing several key players and not playing well. Now they are healthy and on a hot streak. The reality the Giants were on a hot streak at the time they came to Gillette, winning 4 of the last 5 and left it winning 5 out of 6. It was AFTER leaving Foxboro that the Giants started to go into their mid-season funk.

    Beware mediots using this myth to strengthen their pro Giants position
  22. illthrill

    illthrill Rookie

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    I dont think either of them have a chance. First tie is SB history? (after 5 OT) lol

    jk. Go Pats
  23. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Game, set, match and STILL world champion......Patfanken!

    This is as even a SB matchup as you'll see. I AM surprised the Pats are 3 point favorites. I would have expected Giants by a point or two.

    This game could go either way - - but anyone using the word "handled" regarding the Giants victory in Foxboro this year is seriously off.

    BTW, BB is chummy with Mike Shanahan. Now there is something to look at. The pathetic Skins HANDLED the Giants this year. I'd pull up a chair for Shanny.
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2012
  24. byfuglien

    byfuglien Rookie

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    You're correct about the second non-INT, as that was after an encroachment flag came out, and Brady took a gamble.

    The first INT, Brady threw the ball far before it bounced of Edelman after he was contacted.
  25. Kulko

    Kulko Rookie

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    What really rattles me is not so much the fact, that the mediots is hyping this teams, but that soo many Pats fans, on this board and kin other places, are even upstaging them.

    We are a very good team, playing an above average team, who nheeded an stupified opposing PR fumbling twice to even make the SB.

    Yes they are on a hot streak, yes they battled us to a draw last time we played, but the worst proposition for this game should be, that its a 50/50 thing, for a hometown fan nonetheless.

    All the supposed flwas of this trams are there, but they are not bigger, than the flaws of all other 32 teams, or the flaws on the 01 or 03 Pats. or the 05 Steelers.

    The Great Eli Manning had the fewest passing yards of any NFL QB but Mark Sanchez, Tim Tebow and Tyler Palko against the Pats defense.

    This teanm has a very good chance to win the SB and we should be a bit ancious, as the other team, knows there pigskins too, but generally we should enjoy this.
  26. borg

    borg Rookie

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    The homer meter is very high.

    These are the things I love best about the homer fan base:

    1)When the homer team gives up big yds with the lead...the "yards don't matter" theme is all that you hear......but.......when the homer team is playing catchup accumulating yds, these yards prove that the homer team is a real force

    2)When the homer team creates turnovers, this is proof of a superior team......but.....when a homer team coughs up the ball, they simply gave it away. No credit given to the nonhomer team for creating the turnover

    3) Has there ever been a homer thread where the term "questionable call" doesn't get attached after a loss.

    Sure, "handled" may be too strong a term...how about dictated. The Giants dictated how this game was played, and the Pats were in reaction mode. My memory of this game was that the Giants were the dominant team.
    So back to the OP......sure...I easily see why the Experts are sidling up to the Giants

    And PS.....why do you label someone that sees logic behind the "expert" arguement a contrarian. Is this thread only for koolaid drinkers. Lastly...."Intellectual integrity"???? I see. Any argument you make has intellectual integrity but if I use a simple fact like...the Giants coming into unbeaten Foxborough and marching out with a victory...I lack intellectual integrity. Good stuff as always.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
  27. Brettlax3434

    Brettlax3434 Rookie

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    This may be the rant of the year. Great Post!
  28. Vataha

    Vataha Rookie

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    Borg,
    You should add an "es" to the end of your name.

    I watched both games this week on the NFL Network.

    These games were very similar and ended exactly the same way with a great 30+ catch and a blown coverage in the end zone.

    I can't say that either team dictated anything.

    The Superbowl loss was the Giants D line that dominated and Eli made some plays. (some luck and some great).

    The 2011 loss was 0-0 at the half.

    Turnovers were the difference.

    These 2 teams are evenly matched across the board, and probably will go down to the wire again.

    I can't wait!!

    WE NEED TO RUN TO ESTABLISH PLAY ACTION.
  29. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Not only is the reference to Leslie Gore's hit song not so obscure, but my sister lived in the same dorm as Leslie at Sarah Lawrence College and appeared in several photos with her in a spread in Life magazine. So there! :D

    OK, now I'll go back and read the comments you made about football... ;)
  30. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    No Borg, what is high is your BS meter. You don't even bother to dispute a single thing I said in two rather long posts. All you did her was keep repeating the "same ole, same ole", hope that if you say it often enough you can make yourself believe it.
    None of what you describe above occurred in anything I wrote. Why do you bring it up?
    Again you are tilting at windmills that don't exist. Some would call it deflecting. I'd rather think its because you don't know what you are talking about, or you are trying SO hard to be the next DI, (who would at least use legitimate positions to make his contrarian views known), that you can't address the MANY points I brought up
    Well this point I can agree with you. I only mentioned the questionable PI in the first Giant game, not to argue that it shouldn't have been called, but to point out that it just as easily COULD NOT have been called. These things are just too arbitrary for my taste. There was NO question about the Brown call. I just point it out as a horrible play by a bad player who was only out there because of an injury.
    Well, now we come to the crux of the matter. Your opinion of the nature of the game. While I accept your inalienable right to have this opinion, NOTHING that is derived from the stats, eyeball test, or common sense would back up your OP. NOTHING! - Nor did you even attempt to provide anything to oppose what I wrote
    Like I've several time in my posts (which you continually seem to ignore), I can easily see why the "Experts" are "sidling up to the Giants". A real good case CAN be made for that position. AGAIN, my complaint was that a lot of them were basing their positions on evidence that made no sense when you looked at them closely....and I'm NOT going to repeat them again. Go back to the original post and feel free to point out a single example of where I erred.

    My apologies if you are offended by my characterization. AGAIN, I have no problem with your stance that the Giants should be favored. But were the lack of intellectual integrity comes in is from your failure to deal directly with anything I said, either in the original post OR in my follow up to you.

    All you did was claim the Giants "dictated" the first game, but didn't provide anything to back this claim up in your initial response, and when I called you on it and provided several pieces of evidence to back up MY position, your simply responded by essentially whining "homer, homer, homer!!!!!"

    I encourage you to have a "contrarian" position. It would be pretty dull if there weren't any. However if you want to maintain some sense credibility, BACK IT UP with something....anything?.

    What I find ironic is that there ARE legitimate positions you COULD take that WOULD back up your position (to some degree, anyway), but it seems you are waiting for someone else to provide them for you. Now, for the third time, borg, DO YOUR HOMEWORK! ;)
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012
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