Idle thoughts.....instant reactions

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Sep 13, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #91 Jersey

    lk about and most of them were good....but not every thing. Lets get started.

    The GOOD:
    1. Given what we saw in the last 2 preseason games, I was kind of worried about the offensive efficiency coming to a team that had the 6th best defense in the league AND thought they had improved it. Well I clearly I wasted a lot of angst for nothing.

    The offense was everything we hoped it would be. We ran the ball very effectively. (though IMHO, we might have run it more, especially late in the game. Danny Woodhead ran the ball up the middle as well as outside. When was the last time we had our RBs AVERAGE 4.9 ypc Good job by both of them.

    2. Tom Brady had a good game, Hey everyone will be talking about his record setting performance, so why be redundant.

    3. The OL was MAGNIFICENT - God Solder was superb, especially since he had to play most of the game against one of the best pass rushers in the game. His one hold was marginal (more on that later), and the sack he got was more a result of GREAT second effort by Wake than a bad block by Solder,

    It was very hard to believe that 8 days ago Brian Waters was in KC without a job, and then came here and with just 2 practices in pads played over 60 snaps... and played extraordinarily well.

    Dan Connolly once again has proved INVALUABLE. He steps in for Dan Koppen and the offenses didn't miss a beat. Amazing that the transition was so smooth, especially this early in the season and in a game where the Pats threw the ball 48 yds

    Oh yeah, Mankins and Light were pretty good too.

    4. It was a pretty good week end for TEs all across the NFL. Could it be that a lot of teams went to school of the Pats effective use of TEs last season?. Well the the "masters" were not to be out done this Monday and the nightmare match up that Hernandez and Gronk make was apparent all evening.

    The best part will be as team have to start to make adjustments to the TE's, things will start to open up for the WRs

    5. I liked some what I saw from the defense.

    a. I liked the potential Haynesworth showed. he was stout up the middle and gave us consistent push up the middle. Sometime I think that people only think that Haynesorth's highest value is as a pass rusher/sack master. No. What Haynesworth really does is to set the stage for OTHERS to make the sacks. Its no coincidence that when Albert just being average (for him ) in 09,helped BOTH their DE's get double digit sacks, yet neither got close while Albert pouted.last season I think it was a good start for Hayneswoth, but I also think the best is yet to come

    b. The Pats run D was good. More than half the Phins rushing came on Henne scrambles. That DOES have to be improved, but for a first game it was a decent start.

    c. I think the defense looked better when Fletcher was teamed with Mayo than when Guyton was in there

    d. Dowling played very well. I think we are going to like him a lot.

    e. I know people can latch on to the 400 yds the Pats gave up in the air, but I see the seeds for the hope that it will get better as the season goes on. If you think about it, close to 200 of those yards came in the first drive and the last couple of drives the Phins had in the 4th quarter when the Pats were protecting the lead.

    f. After the first Phin drive, which was seemed a little less scary after you consider that most of the yardage came on 2 plays where the receivers BOTH made highlight reel catches against decent coverage. If you look on it, the Phins just had 2 good drives for the first 3 quarters before garbage time fattened their stats. Clearly things need to get better, but for a first effort the good outweighed the bad.

    g. I would like for someone who DVRed the game and can go over the Safety play, and who did what to whom, because outside of a couple of Chung big hits, the Safeties seemed kind of invisible

    THE BAD -

    1, Andre Carter disappointed me. I didn't really see him get as much pressure on the QB as I thought he might. Long could be the best LT in the league, so maybe I'm being harsh, I don't remember seeing much from Mark Anderson and Sean Ellis either. It seemeed that whatever pass rush we did manage came more from inside pressure than from Carter, Anderson, and Ellis

    2. I want to see us rush the ball more. Not just for yardage, but for ball control and time management as well. It was disappointing that we weren't able to run the last 3 minutes out and gave the Phins that last possession

    3. Koppen's injury. Hopefully it won't be a season ender. I'm encouraged slightly by the fact they let him back on the sidelines after half time. But at best we won't see him until mid season.

    BTW from the way Connolly played I'm comfortable having HIM replace Dan, but who replaces him as the swing G and who becomes the backup C. Who is still out there who the Pats can bring in. We are going to need to add someone.

    4. The Pats had NO deflected passes at the LOS and forced NO turnovers (except for the meaningless one on the last play of the game, THAT has to improve

    5. The Pats had 8 penalties, several of which cost them points

    Miscellaneous observations.

    1. I thought Henne looked a lot better in a loss than Sanchez did in victory. While I wasn't completely happy with the pressure, I'd be willing to bet that Pats had double digit hits on him over the course of the game and Henne showed a lot of poise and threw some very good passes under pressure He also made some good decisions. If I were a phin fan I would be very encouraged. OTOH I'd be more worried about that "top 5" D than the QB.

    2. The Pats didn't get any help from the refs this game and it cost them at least one TD. There was one sequence of plays in particular that pissed me off. In one drive in the 2nd Quarter, Ocho was pretty much mugged on a pass inside the 10 that wasn't called. I wasn't terribly upset because quite frankly I'd like to see the refs allow the DBs a little more lee weigh in general (which seemed to be the case over the entire league this weekend) They also allowed the Pats to be physical as well. BUT then the very next play which would have had the Pats on the one, the officials called a VERY marginal hold on Solder. It WAS a hold, but compared to what else was gong on, not much of one Shortly after that, when they showed a replay on the 2nd Miami TD you could see Hayneswoth being grabbed by the arm in a clear hold, which cost him the half second he need to get to the QB. I know that stuff happens, but they seemed to let some obvious calls go for the Phins, and called a nit pick hold on the Pats. Not a big deal, but it was irritating

    3. It was curious to see that it seemed like the Pats dealt with the Miami heat and humidity better than the Phins

    4. Dumbest play of the game had to go to Miami for trying that fade in the back of the endzone on that 4th and half yard. It says a lot about the perception of running against the Pats GL D, but also about how Miami feels about its running attack. Even if you decided to pass the ball, there seemed to be so many better options

    5. I hate having a short week to prepare for SD

    6. Finally lets all lift a glass to Jeff Tarpanian, who luck in avoiding the "turk" becoming almost legendary. The Bell FINALLY tolled on Jeff when the Pats had to add Welch to the OL. Here's hoping that he soon replaces Welch on the PS

    Nice win, Enjoy. And don't forget to nitpick :D
  2. Joker

    Joker Supporter Supporter

    I'm not one to nitpick your thoughts...your reputation on this board is impeccable.

    As usual you convey your thoughts logically and clear.

    I watched this game at a rowdy college bar up in South Kingstown with a bunch of fans half my age.Sure I got all yahoo'ed up and came back home to post like the excited FAN I am. I've NOW been able to watch the game using the DVR and I have to say there are things I didn't see earlier that are clear now. The way the game was called along the O and D lines for example....I counted 7 clear blocks in the back by Phin O linemen,numerous holds that went uncalled and seemingly an all night pushoff fest by Dolphin wideouts on Patriot D backs.

    I what. A few hours ago I would have been ballistic. What I do know, and tonight's game is as clear an example as ever is that...the best thing about this game was the Pats won it. Actually, that's it.What happened and what all these stats and play dissections mean adds up to exactly SQUAT IMHO. First games, historically, are probaly the WORST indicators of what a team is or where it's going. Let's see what we have after 6 or 8 games before determining what "kind" of team this is this season.

    In the meantime, I'm gonna get hunkered down back in the homer bunker awaiting week 2 and the Chargers...and hope we build on week one's win.
  3. Gumby

    Gumby In the Starting Line-Up

    #11 Jersey

    ok, I'll nitpick. ;)

    Anderson did get a sack! (ok, in garbage time; but it was with ONLY a 3 man rush [in the last (/second to last?) drive]. I thought at the time it was pretty good that he was showing hustle and managed to get through a 6 man line w/ only 3 rushers (1 of whom was just holding the middle and not really rushing the qb).

    agreed didn't see much earlier. Joker's comments about the holding explains a lot.

    The 3rd and goal pass was a deflected pass (at least what I saw). Gruden was saying Henne and wrs werent on same page; but I saw a hand hit the ball sending it floating out the EZ. That was a pretty big one leading to the stop/99 yd td!!!

    I think dumbest play for miami was sending marshall across the middle in final seconds. If he is hurt bad; henne could have a long couple of weeks til he gets back. (although bess isn't bad either).

    Although I do give the play you mentioned honorable mention as most obviously fore-shadowed play when they moved marshall over to Ras's side of the formation after going to him 2/3 previous downs.
  4. Hael

    Hael On the Game Day Roster

    Carter was pretty good against an elite OT. He was getting penetration around the edge, but Henne was stepping up. He definitely brushed up against him several times and hurried him several more.

    The Pats had a pretty good pass rush in general, they just didn't click at the same time (eg the outside rush would get there, but no inside push.. next play the inside would push but the outside wouldn't get there).

    I didn't see Anderson play much, but he did get that sack at the end on a nice move.

    Overall, they were lacking on a few plays, but some of that was scheme related too (like when they had Arrington as a DE who was only there to cover Bush)
  5. supafly

    supafly Supporter Supporter

    #32 Jersey

    Yes, certainly a good look at the 2 rookies that most of us wanted to see, and they did not disappoint. I hope that they continue to build some confidence (especially Dowling), and that maybe some fans/posters can fianlly see that this past draft was brilliant. We still have Ridley and Vereen to look forward to in the upcoming weeks and months. It's a great feeling to see the rookies hold their own in game one.

    How about that play from Slater?? Didn't see that one coming, but it's encouraging that we have that kind of potential talent and depth at the position.

    I thought BJGE ran hard, and I hope that he sticks around here for another few yrs. I have always been a huge supporter, and he seems to run with a good purpose.

    TFB was incredible, but I don't want to have to rely on him to play like that to win. It is always good to see him in that kind of form to start the season though, and I am so relieved that the offensive problems of the pre-season (at least the first team offensive problems) were ironed out just as we expected them to be. They looked in rhythm in a great way.

    THE BAD:
    I too, was a bit disappointed from the 'new look' defense. While I will agree that we saw some great potential from Haynesworth at times, I am still a little worried about the lack of a consistant pass rush. We did make some occasional noise on the all-out blitzes, but that's obviously to be expected.

    I saw exactly what I'd thought I'd see from #85, (which is fine)..but I wonder how long he will be able to deal with not being looked at as often as he expected? All we need him to do is be the real #4/#5 WR, considering Welker, Branch, Gronk, and Hernandez are the top 4. I do wonder how he will handle that though? I am sure he will get more looks as the season progresses, but it's more than obvious who Brady's most comfortable with. I am fine with Chad all yr long in his role tonight (if needed), but it does make you wonder if his salary is worth being used as a decoy? I realize that we'll see him used more and more as the yr progresses, but there's no way that he should be the top earning WR, when Welker/Branch/Gronk/Hernandez are all going to be getting 80%+ of all the catches. 6 million+ seems a bit extreme. It's certainly something to keep an eye on.

    The safety plan is somewhat scary to me. I still am yet to see all of the enormous hype that surrounds Pat Chung. I get that he has tremendous upside, is young/fast, and hits hard. Those are all great attributes to have, so I guess I answered my own question on some level. I do think that his coverage skill set is ridiculously weak, and I was hoping that had been improved somewhat. There were plenty of down the middle targets, and it seems as though teams will still use that to continue to attack us. That has to improve, and quickly.

    Barrett was almost invisible, but I think that was due to mainly rolling him to Marshall's coverage--but I could be wrong. I have not watched any tape or DVR. Regardless, I would like to see more from the safety play, and am still miffed at the release/reforming of the position.

    McCourty did not impress me as much I expected. I know that Marshall is certainly a handful, but 150+ yd performance is not going to go over too well with most fans. Once again, it was a close game mid-way through the 3rd until Brady started to act like God as a QB to bail us out. This is great for the offense, but not what we wanted to see all over again. I don't want to rely on Brady playing lights-out to have to win all season. He is only human, and will have some bad games...then everyone *****es and we're back to square one. Even though DMcC looked good on several occasions--and tends to have good coverage more often than not, I don't think we've seen him the same as last yr, at least through the pre-season and game one. I am not trying to be overly negative, but I can't be the only one wondering if last yr was not just a super yr. I hope our expectations of him were not too high, as most of us felt that we had a sure-fire pro bowl CB for many yrs to come.

    I also felt that the inside pass rush from Miami was more than apparent when Koppen went down. I hope that isn't a sign of things to come, but it will be interesting to see what all of the Koppen bashers have to say now. Since he is heavily involved with calling and working with Tom in regards to the blocking assignments etc, I am glad that Connelly seemed to step in without too much downside, but it was clear (at least to me) that the inside pass protection will not be the same without Koppen. I have been a Koppen supporter through many attacks here on the boards, and even though he has lost a step or two, he is a very solid and reliable center for us. Here's hoping a return sometime this yr, at least for the stretch of Dec/Jan.


    Interested in hearing others' thoughts, as to whether or not I am being too critical of the secondary, but it is something that needs improved obviously.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  6. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

    #37 Jersey

    Nice post as usual, Ken.

    My quick hits:

    Very happy with how the offensive line played. Thought for sure Miami would be able to exploit Connolly at Center, but it never happened. Connolly is a stud. Brian "muddy" Waters was impressive at RG and Solder was a beast. Light and Mankins were rock solid.

    Looks like the Pats are going to rotate the defensive linemen frequently to keep them fresh. With beef like Haynesworth, Wilfork and Love, I was kind of surprised to see Wright starting at DT. He got some reps at DE too. Thought I'd see a lot more of Andre Carter. So far Ellis has shown me nothing at DE. I miss Eric Moore, and I can't help but wonder if Ellis is really a better pass rusher than Moore at that stage of his career.

    I've been slightly critical of Brady of late in terms of his accuracy especially down the field. Last night may have been the best game I've ever seen him play. He was locked in. The 99 1/2 yarder to Welker was incredible.
  7. voluntarysaftey

    voluntarysaftey Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Offense = Awesome.
    If Chad can meet his initial expectations this offense is going to rival 07 (Don't have TD season record Moss but have more weapons overall)

    Defense = First Game Disappoint
    Expected more from the DE
    Haynesworth, Wilfork -- happy with what they showed
    Mayo -- I feel like this guy gets a bit too much hype from the local media. He's not a playmaker yet, and its his 5th season? I think this may be his max -- solid tackler, but not at the level of some of our past great LBs
    Other LB -- nothing remotely special.
    McCourty had a really bad game -- relative to the fact that I'm hoping he's able to take the next step to shut down corner
    Bodden/Dowling -- Solid for #2,3 corners
    Chung -- Still has a long ways to go before he's Rodney
    Other Safetys -- Big concern
  8. Patriot 37

    Patriot 37 On the Game Day Roster

    Reading some of the comments most people thought Hanyesworth did a good job "at times" and "show potential". Watch the game again just focus on Haynesworth. 90% of the time he beat the man in front of him easily the 2 holding penalties on Incognito would likely been sacks by AH if he hadn't grabbed him.

    His conditioning should improve and the weather will get cooler so he should play more in the weeks to come. I thought he was great along with Ras-I the thing I'm most excited about.
  9. parthasas

    parthasas Patriots Nation Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    kind of dissappointed with the D and the pass rush yesterday ! Hope this the a combination of first game jitters / climate / road game etc.

    God almighty, do we need OL help or what :eek:
  10. supafly

    supafly Supporter Supporter

    #32 Jersey

    It is Mayo's 4th season, 2 of which he was the Defensive rookie of the yr, and last yr he led the entire NFL in tackles...he's pretty damn good, solid, proven leader, and the future of our defense. I think you are referring to his 'big play' lack, but that may come this yr. Mayo is one of the premiere ILB's in the entire NFL.
  11. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. Supporter

    #87 Jersey

    Just work from the premise that a player in the front 7 is just rated on the amount of sacks they get in a year supafly. It takes the heart out of the need to justify being a well rounded defensive footballer. ;)
  12. RhodyPatriot

    RhodyPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

    I'm not a big fan of arena football (that's what we saw last night in Miami, the other night in Green Bay)
    Agree with you wholeheartedly about running the ball. It's like the Colts.....errrr Patriots learned nothing from the playoffs the last 2 years. They've got Brady in the game and throwing the ball with 3 minutes left. Ridiculous to put him at risk like that.
    Brady throwing the ball 40+ times a game will get him killed at some point this year.

    Saw some encouraging signs with the D/ love the line. Vince and Albert are going to be fun to watch this season.

    DB's struggled but that's a group that I think will get better the more they play and play together.

    Going to be a fun year.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  13. betterthanthealternative

    betterthanthealternative In the Starting Line-Up


    -There were a few times when Brady had as much time as he wanted to find a receiver. He could have been back there 10 or 12 seconds. Don't see that in the NFL often.

    -Henne played better than 75% of the QB's we will face this year.

    -Waters is a blessing. Who could have predicted this? Wow.

    -How did Solder go from "high ceiling" to "very good" so quickly? Credit Dante (again).

    -The interior DL rotation is the best we've had in decades. Pryor has quietly become a quality NFL player. Keep 'em healthy.

    -I really hope Spikes gets his head together and comes back to play to his potential.

    -When do we get to see the rookie RB's?

    -Miami in Miami is a game I fear every year and it is great to have it out of the way already.
  14. Halifax_Pats_Fan

    Halifax_Pats_Fan In the Starting Line-Up

    I am always a buzz kill around here..:)....and I will just say this. The Chargers are coming to town next week. The Jets, Eagles, Steelers....these are the teams we need to handle.

    Does Miami totally suck....not really. Henne lit us up pretty good.

    Let's see what next week brings. We measure ourselves against the best the league has to offer. That needs to be the bar. Where are we against those teams.

    Either way that was an awesome game to watch. Just our tight ends man, they can make plays, holy crap. Hernandez made a couple real nice catches. Now we need some consistency, week in and week out, I think Welker said this in his presser.

    Offensive line, did great. Awesome job. Brady's the chart.

    Stuart Scott asked Bru how much Brady has left in the tank...Bru pretty much laughed it off. That question should be on "come on man". Idiotic.

    Great start to the season...
  15. supafly

    supafly Supporter Supporter

    #32 Jersey

    I've always thought as though Pryor had a lot of potential, and could be a good contributor. Great point in bringing that up, he looked good last night. I think he was having some bad back problems last yr, and that's why some were quick to write him off.

    Great pt too in pointing out that the Miami (away) game is now done, that makes it a lot easier. Make the NYJ have to play there in the oppressive heat, but at least we got it out of the way.
  16. Timbo717

    Timbo717 On the Game Day Roster

    Couple of things I liked (too much to list):

    Haynesworth looked good. Should be even better once he gets out of the hot humidity and gets more conditioned. I think after seeing how Bill used him, it will really motivate him to work even harder because it is how he wants to be used.

    Solder, Waters and Connolly all stepped up. Connolly stepping in for Koppen, Solder going up an elite pass rusher and Waters playing 69 out of 80 snaps and doing so well. We needed it, and they delivered. Need to get some depth now, but it is scary to think that Solder is still to be considered somewhat "raw".

    TEs - Gronk played well obviously, and Hernandez made some very good athletic catches and ran well with the ball. Not great with the fumble, and hopefully that improves but if he can make catches like that more he is a great weapon.

    Not so great but not the end of the world:

    - Pass rush wasn't as epic as some of us thought it would be but to his credit Henne stepped up and made a couple of good throws while under immediate pressure.
    - Secondary: Happy with Dowling and wish McCourty would've played better. Safety somewhat of an issue and I think Guyton just didn't do well with coverage. Fasano made an amazing catch when he was covering him but it didn't seem he was playing the ball as much as he could've been??

    Again, I think Henne had some errant throws but he also made some very good ones. I think he is getting more confidence and with Marshall, Bush, Bess, and Fasano he has some decent weapons. We can give some credit to his OC, but the bottom line is you need to go out and make plays and he did that without a doubt.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2011
  17. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

    Overall, I think it was a good performance for a first game and I am happy with the win on the road against a division rival. The play was pretty sloppy, which was a consistent theme accross the league. Its that way every year but even more so this year because of the abbreviated offseason schedule and limited practices. In the end, this game is probably a very poor indicator of how they will play the rest of the year.

    The most interesting take away from the game was that Dowling started opposite McCourty and seemed to do a decent enough job.

    On the other side, Henne looked good especially under pressure which he was under much of the night. I saw him make several plays while taking hits. Plus he seemed accurate and made good decisions. I also can't believe he is as fast as he is. I remember this was my impression of him as well his first year as a starter. I don't see him enough to understand why he hasn't been more successful. Is it a consistency issue? Is it the players around him? Coaching?
  18. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

    I haven't had a chance to read every post in the game thread or in any of the post-game threads, so maybe this is redundant. But I just re-watched the replay of Brady's interception. At the time it happened, my first reaction was "that's pass interference" because the Dolphin CB (Sapp?) clearly hit the receiver (Edelman) before the ball got there. It was that jarring that prevented Edelman from getting to the pass.

    See: NFL Videos: Patriots vs. Dolphins highlights - start at the 2:02 mark for the highlight.

    Obviously there was no PI called. Was that because it was ruled a lateral? Or because Branch was making contact with Sapp and they felt that Branch pushed Sapp into Edelman?

    There was no explanation given for what was a no-call on obvious PI.
  19. reflexblue

    reflexblue Supporter Supporter

    #91 Jersey

    Well that was not exactly a stellar referring crew we saw last night. I think the ref was the same one that gave rapestburger the TD last year against the fish.
  20. PatsDeb

    PatsDeb Supporter Supporter

    If you watch it, it looked like the Miami guy blocked Deion Branch into Edelman. Could it also be that it's considered a hand-off rather than a pass because it's behind the LOS? Either way, I hate that play and I wish BB and Brady would remove it from the playbook. It hardly ever goes for big yards (although David Givens used to execute it well), and there have been more fumbles/ints/loss of yards on it than I can count. I don't understand why they continue to use it.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page