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idle thoughts....,immediate Philly impressions

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 28, 2011.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    1. For some reason I was really pissed that Philly scored that last TD. I also find it curious that while its not OK for a team way ahead to run plays to score more, its perfectly OK for a team way behind to call TOs when you are behind 4 scores and run onside kicks with 30 seconds left behind 3 scores.

    There is something hypocritical about it . If I were a Philly player I'd be pissed. I don't have any problems with them trying to score on that last drive, but at THAT point of the game, isn't it the coaches responsibility to get his players off the field healthy. Would those 7 meaningless points be worth losing a player because the coach wanted to add 5 or so more plays to a game that was long gone

    Besides only allowing 13 points would have cemented the team's inclusion into the top 10 in scoring defense, and in a year where there isn't much good to say about the Pats D, to this point, I'd like to have that one.

    2. A couple of interesting things to not to note about top 7 DBs we had available to us; Arrington, Moore, Iheadabu, Molden, Adams, Brown, and Edelman

    a. 4 of the top 5 weren't even on the roster when the season began
    b. 5 of the 7 came into the league as UDFAs, with only Edlelman (7th) and Moulden (3rd)
    being drafted at all

    3. Speaking in more detail about the much maligned secondary personnel
    a. Arrington- There will soon come a time when people will start to realize that he's having a big year. Its not just the 7 picks, but I read that he was statistically behind only Revis in defending passes in general. He's tough on run support and tackles well. He's EARNED the title as the Pats top CB
    b.I know its only an impression, but it seems to me that Iheadabu is around the ball more and more with every game he plays. I thought he was strictly the special teamer/backup run support S he was with the Jets I didn't expect more when he got here.Maybe there is more to this local kid.
    c All the mediots are going to make big deal that the Pats gave up 400 passing yds again, It should be noted that over 100 came on those first 2 drives and over ANOTHER 100 came after the Pats opened up its 38-13 lead

    4. I appreciate Rob Ninkovitch more and more with every passing game. Very steady. A great tackler and a versatile.player. He not only looks like Vrabel, he's starting to play like him.

    5. On the other hand, while he's not playing badly, I don't think the switch to the 4-3 has been very kind to Jerod Mayo. Maybe its the knee, but he doesn't look as sure of himself or explosive out there. Just an anecdotal impression.

    6. With Volmer in a walking boot, Light playing hurt, and us being down to our 3rd C, the OL is getting very thin.

    7. OL comments-
    a. It seemed like the Ryan Wendell era went off without being a disaster. He seemed to hold his own. I don't know if he's making a positive impact, but he wasn't killing us either, especially in pass blocking.
    b. I liked the fact that the OL made adjustments. Much of the talk in the first quarter was about how Brady was getting hit so often. By the Pats 3rd drive it got better and better.
    c Solder continues to impress with this versatility, speed and execution. There was one play that caught my eye. It was a running play with Vareen in the backfield. Solder came off his initial block and it almost looked like he caught up with Vareen and passed him. In fact he pushed him forward another 3 yds.This kid is a special athlete and will very hard to keep out of the starting line up next season.
    d. On the negative side there didn't seem to be many running plays where the OL created much push against the Eagles. I don't know if one would describe the running game as effective, more like it was "complementary".

    8, BJGE looked like he had a bit of that burst we saw earlier in the year. Maybe that turf toe is starting to heal He did a nice job early, but curiously he didn't see much action in the 2nd half. Lots of mouths to feed with 4 capable RBs.

    9. If there is a blueprint to stop the Pats, apparently the Eagles failed to open the envelope. They single covered Welker and for the most part didn't physically challenge the Pats recevers at the LOS. For the most part they were able to get off the LOS.....and when THAT happens, Dion Branch will become a factor.

    10. Miscellaneous -
    a. The Jets must be the luckiest team in the league. Just like the last few year, they won ANOTHER game because their opponent keeps giving them gifts. I would double this post by listing the ways the Bill gifted this game to the Jest.
    b. After seeing KC hold the Steelers to 13 points, the offensive job we did on them becomes more impressive
    c. Edelman is one of the best tacklers on the defense. He squared up with perfect technigue on this his tackly on Young in the open field. Very impressive. He also had at least one nice coverage in coverage that I saw. Plus you can't help notice that EVERY time he runs a punt back, he makes the first guy miss.
    d. The refs missed several easy calls this game. The clear facemask on Young. The illegal contact on Adams, where it looked like, in the replay, that the WR initiated the contact. Plus about 5 obvious holds on the Eagles
    e. Up to this point this has been an Ocho-free article....and for a reason. I am so tired of all the drama and speculation the topic of Chad Ochocinqo generates. NONE of which, btw, is created by Chad himself. Its all media driven. Clearly I'd rather have him than Underwood, and he'd really be missed if Deion went down. But with him or without him THIS offense is going to be productive. And that goes for any Price talk. Much more drama than your 5th and 6th WRs should merit.
    f. LMcCoy had some of the most exciting 2 yd runs I've seen in a while. Very Barry Sanders-like. He;s a special runner. I;m surprised he didn't get the ball more. When asked about it, Reid basically said, why attack the strength of a defense, (alluding to the Pats ability to stop the run), when you can attack their weakness, )some one must have told bim about that 32nd ranking of the Pats passing D ;) )

    Summary. Given all the injuries, the character of this team becomes more and more apparent with every passing game. Don't be mistaken, the Pats beat a very talented team to night. A talented team....just not a very good.one. Going down 10 points on the road, and turning it into a blow out by the end of the 3rd quarter was a great acheivement. We should all be very proud of our team.
     
  2. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Nice thoughts, Ken.

    I agree about Solder, and it's nice to see that maybe Belichick knew what he was doing all along. The same could be said for the secondary mess, and the cutting of the DB's in general. Ighedibo looks like he is seriously improving, which is a very positive thing...else we wouldn't all have been worried when he went down, right? ;)

    It'll be interesting to see what happens to Vollmer, as he obviously hasn't been playing too well lately. I am confident that Solder can get the job done, and I was one who did not want him starting from day one. That said, the offensive line does worry me at times. Even plays where they are nice completions, I am caught watching/worrying about Brady being hit again. That has to change. He is still taking too many hits in my opinion, even as well as the line seems to block at times. I still feel as though they need to improve, especially for the physical teams of the postseason. Even the defenses of Miami and Denver will be chomping at the bit, and both are quite capable of ending our hopes and dreams with one good blow. I would bet that most are not as worried as I am, but we still need to do a better job at protecting our one and only key player who cannot be replaced.

    I have never been as huge of a Mayo supporter as most, but I do respect the fact that he is young, under a pretty cheap deal, and is one of the leaders of the defense. However, I have honestly never seen him as one of the top 1-2-3 ILB's in the game, as so many constantly state. That said, his loss would be devestating at this point. He does provide great talent at stopping the run and tackling, but I do agree that he has not looked nearly as good this yr.


    Your point about the KC defense was what I was harping about all of last week, even though no one listened, and I ended up looking pretty dumb as the offense put up a solid effort. They have some very capable defenders. If not for Palko's 4 turnovers, they may have beaten the almighty black and gold last night. That would have been fun to say the least.

    I think the defense taking away McCoy yesterday was an incredible effort, and when I saw that he only had 31 yds, I was even more impressed. Great job by the coaches and players.

    Finally, I agree that BJGE looked a lot better the past 2 weeks, as once he gets warmed up he seems to run much more effectively. I understand the rotating of the RB's for obvious reasons, but I think he would've had a much better effort had he been the lead back in the second half. Then we could've gone from 'complementary' to downright effective.
     
  3. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    I'm not gonna bother making a new thread for it so i'll hijack yours.


    Does NE have the best no huddle in the NFL ?

    Every time we go to it the opposing defense is in trouble. They either don't get lined up properly,can't get guys off the field,matchups became a far bigger problem and the high pace just gasses every D. The philly pass rush became extinct in the no huddle. Really liking that we are executing well in the no huddle and i think this is a good sign for the playoffs.
     
  4. doesntmatter1

    doesntmatter1 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I would like to add one important thing. Since the Steeler game, Guyton has seen very few snaps and has been replaced by tracy white and our defense is soooo much better without him. I have hated guyton for years and bb is finally seeing it. Next step: cut sergio brown. Brown scares the shizz out of me. He gets beat deep when he has like a 20 yard cushion. Really???

    I quickly grew tired of edelman at wr(bad hands), but he looks very promising at db. His stop of VY was just a bonus of the great coverage he had on that play. He jammed the underneath receiver extremely well and that is where VY wanted to go with the ball.

    I personally thought this was the most satisfying offensive output of the season. Game after game I yell run the fn ball and for once they did. Especially when they ran it three times in a row on one of the first scores. When we were shutout against the Giants in the first half, I felt that if we just ran it every down we would of had some points and this game is basically what i had wanted to see that game. The eagles pass rush is no joke and they needed to be worn down with some ground and pound.

    Lastly, good game by Branch. I have to admit that Branch may be the slowest receiver we ever started though. I thought the 35 year old troy brown was slow but he would burn the current branch no contest.
     
  5. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not sure what to think of Guyton, to be honest. We all know that he is better suited to defend the pass, and is a liability against the run, but I'm not sure if he deserves quite as much of the knocks that he gets around here. He is hands down, currently the #1 whipping boy on this forum.

    Don't get me wrong, I realize his obvious limitations, and by no means am saying that he should be considered "good." But as a role player, I am not sure that he is quite as bad as many state that he is.

    THE BIG PLAY FACTOR: Just last yr, he had better numbers than even Jerod Mayo in many important categories: (not comparing their talents as a whole, just giving an example of some "big plays..." nothing more)

    MAYO---5 passes defended
    GUYTON-6 passes defended

    MAYO---2 sacks
    GUYTON-3 sacks

    MAYO---0 INT
    GUYTON-2 INT (1 returned 59 yards for a touchdown)

    MAYO---1 forced fumble, 3 recoveries for -2 yards
    GUYTON-1 forced fumble, 1 recovery for 35 yards (plus another defensive TD)

    That's 2 defensive touchdowns, a forced fumble, a returned fumble for 35 yards, 3 sacks, 6 passes defended, and 2 INT's... his big play capability was obvious. He led the LB core in passes defended, by 2x the amount of any other LB.

    HIS DEPENDABILITY: Since coming here in 2008, Guyton has appeared in almost every single game. The only exception was a 15 game apperances slot in his first year, and the recent game last week when he was injured. Other than that, they are all 16 game appearances. While I agree that Belichick may not bring him back next yr, the coach apparently has had some use for him. More importantly, he has avoided the dreaded injuries (at least with the exception of his recent issue having missed the game last week), even during the 2009 season, when he was a full-time starter in all 16 games.

    --------------------------

    To bottom line it, I reiterate the fact that I am NOT a huge supporter of Guyton, only that I believe it is fair to look at the entire picture and realize that he has been effective at times in his positional role playing. I agree that he has not been as successful this yr, but the switch to a 4-3 has had some effect on those numbers and defensive reps too.

    While I agree that he pretty much sucks in run support, and there is a high possibility that he may not be back next year, I still wonder exactly what Belichick truly thinks of him...and that we will likely never find out.

    As many have pointed out, they assume that Tarpinian (vs NYJ and KC, before being IR'ed) and even Tracy White (who looked totally lost at times in the past several games) has immediately taken over all of his duties. Since Guyton started again today, and actually even made a nice play rushing Vince Young to force an errant throw, I am not assuming that he has done anything to have lost his job. Let's also remember that he made a crucial pick inside the Pittsburgh 15 yard line that led to the TD to cut it to 10-7, when it appeared that the Steelers were going to completely crush us. That led to a momentum shift that allowed the team to hang in there, with a chance to even win or tie it at the end.

    So to say that "White has replaced Guyton, and the defense has been sooo much better without him," may not be entirely fair, as I imagine that the defense would have made drastic improvements with or without either Tracy White, or Gary Guyton. I believe the depth as a whole needs improved (although our recent injuries are what is killing that position), and Guyton should probably not be back with the team next year. I also believe that Guyton may have some use in certain areas and situations, and I am curious as to whether Belichick agrees? Or if his recent repetition cuts have been due to his being banged up?
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  6. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite In the Starting Line-Up

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    I see your Gary Guyton and I raise you Sergio Browne
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ken great job as always...

    Guyton is what he is and UDFA, who has some strengths and has played pretty good in this system, if he could cover TE's he would be more valuable, but right now, at best, he is a situational player.
     
  8. bruce_w

    bruce_w On the Roster

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    Nice Post. I have renewed faith in this forum. Lets sit back and enjoy, the things this team is doing don't happen too often in the NFL.
     
  9. Gumby

    Gumby 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #11 Jersey

    Not sure I agree w/ the Wendell analysis. Is hard to see on CBS video when you cant rewind and re-look or zoom in yourself anywhere; ... but my impression in the 1 Qtr was that the early-on VERY ACTIVE Philly pass rush was overwhelming the middle and the Gs/Ts were having to hedge inside to make up for it.

    After they ran some draws and delays AND got the quick/no-huddle offense going they made the Iggles back off some and then they really just GASSED THEM due to the long sustained drives.

    But I am also concerned about OL depth. Thank God for Scar; he coaches guys up a lot.

    But at some point playoff caliber teams will recognize that Wendell is a #3 depth for a reason. They will attack it like the Gints did the RG in the SB that shall not be named.

    Lets hope we get our other guys back and Waters/Mankins stay healthy. We need the vets there; I think we could better sustain injuries to Vollmer/ Light than we could in the Gs right now.
     
  10. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar In the Starting Line-Up

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    Great post, particularly #1. Which I agree with. Why does a team like the Patriots constantly get criticized when they continue to call plays and score when their up, but yet a team that is going to lose is credited for still trying? IMO if a team puts in their backups and continues to play football regardless of the score then it's acceptable, but when the starters are left in to do the same it is questionable due to the injury factor while backups are simply getting more reps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  11. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Though there is still a game tonight, I think the Patriots arethe only team this week to score 30+ points. Not sure it means anything as there are no doubt other weeks this happens.

    or maybe defenses are starting to catch up?
     
  12. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    It's likely a fluke. The Jest are the second highest scoring team this week so far with 28 points.
     
  13. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    Nice post Ken. Here's my quick thoughts:

    -Vareen is the first Patriots running back I've ever seen who can simply beat the defense to the edge using pure speed.

    -My mind was boggled when they announced how many yards Philly had amassed. It seemed to me that the Pats shut them down most of the game.

    -I was also pissed about the last touchdown. I know it doesn't matter, but if the Pats held them to 13 points, their defensive points allowed average would have dipped below 20 to 19.6. Plenty of opportunity for the defense to improve against the flotsam and jetsam on the remaining Patriots schedule.
     
  14. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    There are no accidents. Isn't that what the wise men say?

    Then again, Sanchez completing only 17 of his 35 passes to yield 4 TDs does seem like a fluke. Point taken :)
     
  15. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    Thats what i saw in the first quarter pressure right up the middle, than they started running The Law to keep Philly honest. My hats off to BOB for running in this situation and sticking to it. If i had been able to i would have posted that Connelly not being there was big.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mayo has been injured and has been playing out of position. Spikes is our starting MLB. Mayo and Ninkovich start outside. With both Spikes and Fletcher out. Mayo is starting out of position at MLB and Guyton is starting outside.

    I believe that the play of Mayo will be improved a lot when Spikes is back.

    With regard to Guyton, I see no indication that White has passed him on the depth chart or that Belichick wouldn't want him back, depending on price. He is an inexpensive backup player (yes, a JAG) who can start if needed.
     
  17. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    1) Back up QB getting additional reps with the starters vs. an NFL defense....yawn at the outrage
    2) Philly showed that speed can burn our makeshift DB warriors
    3) Why not eliminate stats from 4 drives for every team every game?
    4) Ninko will be a major factor when the Pats climb the holy mountain and battle Tesus at Mile High. Hope Spikes is available for that game as well.
    5) Pats D controls the running output every game, despite being a react D. Mayo is a big part of that.
    6) Interesting how the Pats combatted the intense 1st qtr pass rush by going 5 wide with a no huddle. Tom Brady was tough as nails yesterday. Took a beating early, bulldozed when needed, scampered when available, and stayed mentally sharp throughout. IMO, one of his best efforts EVER.
    7) Going 5 wide settled the line down. Did Cannon get any reps?
    8) BJGE had burst, but was being stopped on the first contact....as were all the RBs.
    9) It is that time of year when teams must rely on the depth of their roster and the resourcefulness of their front office. Comparing NE vs Philly.....BB wins the roster challenge
    10) a....a confident Sanchez wins games. He gutted out his early miscues and got it done
    ......c.....Edelman....5'10" 198lbs...4.45 40yd dash.....the kid is a baller, a great tackler and I love that they blitzed him.....a floating S ?? It's fun to watch
    ......d.....Desean Jackson???? If his head was screwed on better, this could have been a different game
    ......e...The Ocho no show deserves ALL the critique. Highest paid WR on the roster, former NFL star. Spent draft pick. Belichick needs to reexamine his evaluation process that lead to this major mistake. For now, moving on....but over the offseason, BB needs an intervention regarding his WR evaluations over the past few years.
    ......f....McCoy and Forte....wow....could they put up extreme numbers as an every down Patriot.

    Nice win...very entertaining.....next
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2011
  18. mosi

    mosi Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    #12 Jersey

    This was a really good win mainly because the offense came to play. People forget that Philly, for all the losses, has been in every game this year. Their defense is good. Real good. And the Pats just blew them up.

    The heck with how our defense played. That was expected. Based upon how the Pats played against the Giants and Steelers, I thought the Pats would have problems but no. Pretty amazing if you ask me.
     
  19. Kasmir

    Kasmir Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #75 Jersey

    Woodhead is actually a bit faster than Vereen, even at longer distances: Vereen was timed at 10.66s in the 100m in collegiate track, Woodhead at 10.5s...
     
  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Exactly. Philly has one of the more talented defenses in the NFL and a ferocious pass rush. Brady was only sacked once yesterday and only misfired on 10 passes. Plus, he didn't turn the ball over. The Pats shredded them with the no huddle all throughout the game, even forcing an Eagle into a flop in order to buy time for the struggling defense. This was a very impressive game for the offense.

    It's never good to allow 400 passing yards to Vince Young, but keep those numbers in perspective. With Vick out, the gameplan was obviously to go in there and shut down the run. Couple that with the fact that, after they pulled their heads out of their asses, the Pats got up to a big lead, and you have that kind of passing day. It was also obvious that Jackson saw the film and saw the likes of Sterling Moore blowing up receivers over the middle of the field. He looked like he was hearing footsteps all day and got benched because of it.
     
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