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idle thoughts - Happy Thanksgiving......

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 23, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    .... Lets get started and see if I can fall asleep before 2 am

    1, With NO Mankns, NO Volmer, NO Gronk, NO Jones, plus an iffy Hernandez and playing at home, on a short week, the Jets must have known they would NEVER get a better shot at beating the Pats, than last night for the rest of the Brady Era.

    2. What makes it even more delicious was that it must have looked SOOO sweet when they forced the Pats into a bad looking 3 and out and a FG miss in the Pats first 2 drives. It looked like Donald Thomas might not be able to ever block anyone after the his wiff on the first play of the game, and the 3rd down play looked like everyone missed their blocks and Brady just got rid of the ball. The Jets were moving the ball. The Pats looked confused and ineffective.... THEN it simply just fell apart in the 2nd quarter

    3. Am I the only one who noticed that Brady had a rather inaccurate game for him.(56%) He missed a LOT of open guys last night. If he'd actually been hot, it could have been much worse for the Jets. Isn't that freighting. I mean he barely used Hernandez (2 catches). He missed 6 open guys that I can think of off the top of my head, so it could be more. Plus all the Jet turnovers for TD's and the safety gave the Jets 3 extra possessions, limiting the number of time he would have to move the ball.

    So when Brady winds up with another 330yd game with 3 TD's (and it should have been 4. if not for a bogus push off call), and no picks or fumbles; it makes you wonder how good this kid could be if he finally "puts an entire game together". :eek:

    4. Can you say enough about Dante Scharnnechia. Once again he managed to scrape together an offensive line with 2 starters missing and have them working at a high level of effectiveness. Can you imaging how good this OL could be if it had all the starters available for a few games in a row. :eek:

    5. Marcus Cannon shut up a lot of people who were still hating on him for his perceived failings back in preseason. Dante told everyone not to be worried even then, and as usual, Dante was right. ;). Now granted Cannon didn't have to face an elite edge rusher like Volmer has of late. The Jets have no one the caliber of Mathis, Freeney, Miller. Dumerville. or others that Volmer has tamed this season, but in his first extensive playing time at RT, Cannon was nigh on to perfect, and was very effective as run blocker.

    Many of us thought Cannon was going to be a real "road grader" as a RG coming out of the draft, well it turns out he a pretty good "road grader" as a RT as well, though I still think his best position will be ultimately be at RG, its nice to know that he can fill in at RT in a pinch.

    6. The Pats have a LOT of very good young OLmen all well under 30 to go along with 2 seasoned vets in Mankins and Connolly, neither of whom can be considered "old", just no longer young

    7. With each passing game that he see's significant snaps and looks, Julian Edelman is showing us that he's more than just "a Welker clone" as a WR. We can start to understand what Brady was talking about on WEEI about how Edelman has different skills than Welker.

    Its a real shame that, once again, just as it looks like he's turning a corner, he gets nicked up again. Hopefully it will turn out that over the next 10 days he won't have lingering concussion effects and can play next week

    8. On the refs:

    * The call on Hernandez was bad. There was only one quick replay, but I didn't see a push off worthy to take away that TD.
    * I have no concept of what Dennard could have done to avoid hitting the receiver in the head. The guy was coming straight at him and about 2 feet off the ground. His only alternative would have been to let him score.
    *What's not getting enough play from the Lion fiasco was how all those officials missed seeing the Houston runner was down and blow the whistle in the first place.
    * The problem with the penalty when they threw the flag when it was unneeded, was not the rule, but the severity of the punishment. It should be a 5 yd penalty IMHO, but give him 15 if you must. What you CANNOT do is have a penalty that allows for an illegal play go unreviewed. Schwartz's immediate penalty for cold ****ing an official would have been less damaging to his team, than the unremarkable crime of throwing a flag when it wasn't necessary.
    *there was one other call that really bothered me during the game, but I can't remember it now (senior moment)

    9. Not a single one of the 6 teams that played on Thanksgivng threw for under 300 passing yds. It might leave one to conclude that playing on a 4 day week might affect your chances of defending the pass. Just a thought

    10. Does anyone but me feel that we should have more passing plays where the primary receiver is the RB. We rarely throw to RB's outside of screens where they are the primary target. I'm hoping that Vareen's TD will spark a turn to this strategy, because too often I think Brady doesn't look for his RB's enough.

    On one of the passes he missed to Hernandez deep on a 2nd and 4, he had Ridely all alone with no one within 15 yds of him in the flat. Sometimes I think Brady ignores those guys because it would be unsporting. But the fact is that if he threw to the RB's more often, it would open up the middle more for the TE's and slot guys

    11. Ever since Rex Ryan has come into the league, BB's offenses have gotten better almost every game at deciphering Ryan's arcane defenses. The only time Ryan's defense bested BB in the last 3 years was the Playoff game in 2010. And that IMHO was more a matter of TB's impatience, and BB's unwillingness to stick with the run more.

    12. I find it positively hypocritical for teams pr their fans who are getting blown out to complain about the "other" team for "running it up" in a meaningless situation, when their own QB gets to keep throwing it on every down and trying to score.

    13. The raw stats won't show it. The Pat's D still gave up close to 450 yds of offense. But if you couldn't start to see this defense take a big step forward, then you weren't watching the same game I was. And I'm not just talking about the takeaways. About the only thing I saw that concerned me was, despite the 2 sacks, the Pats didn't create the same kind of pressure they did against Colts. I saw very little creativity. Very rarely did they blitz, and very rarely did they do any do any DL stunts or stuff designed to confuse the offense. Too often (IMHO) there was straight 4 man rushes. Not enough hits and hurries

    14. Did anyone hear the name of Quintin Coples called last night. It seemed to me that he was just about as productive as Chandler Jones was. According to the NFL.com, Coples recorded zero stats. That was gratifying.

    15. I also didn't hear Aqib Talib's name much....and that's a good thing. Whether by design or luck, the Jets seemed to stay away from him most of the night. He wasn't tested much.

    16. Its hard to pay for a FA in just one game, but Steve Gregory came pretty close last night.. To call a forced fumble, interception, fumble recovery, TD, and 5 unassisted tackles a big night is an understatement.

    Gregory is NOT an all pro talent, but he's a asset at the position, and with Chung there to take the majority of the run coverage safety role can be a solid contributor, and a big upgrade over what was playing there last season.

    17. I think when we break down the Jets big runs, we will find that on most of them, Spike committed himself to a gap, and it was the wrong one. don't get me wrong, with 11 teackles and being a force in the running game, I just want him to wind up in the wrong gap less.

    18. Donta Hightower showed me a spark of life last night. His sack was a realy heads up play. I was disappointed we rarely saw him rush again. And I'm still not seeing much of the "suddenness" I saw in the highlight films from the draft. Not what I want, but still better.

    19. I know we aren't supposed to look ahead beyond the next appoint. But I almost hope the Dolphins come up with an impressive win on Sunday, so I can take them seriously for the next game. But the truth is told that I can hardly wait for the Texan and Niner games to test ourselves against the "real mettle" of the league.

    I know its not the Patriot Way, but I can't help myself.

    20. All I can think about now for the next 10 days is for this team to get healthy. I really want to see what we have with all hands on deck.

    21. BTW- I wonder who is going to be smart enough to have 53 "Gronk Who?" t-shirts made and passed out to everyone. THAT would keep Gronk grounded and motivated during his down time. The good thing about this that by the time he comes back most of those "minor" injuries will be healed. SO the Gronk we get back for the Playoff run will be a healthy one.

    Night all.
  2. slash83

    slash83 Rookie

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    In regards to Talib, Rex did say earlier in the week they likely weren't going to throw at him.
  3. Joker

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    TALIB CONTINENT!!! OG OG OG!!!

    just kill me now before I see any of that Jet-like crap....
  4. Ghost of Ben Dreith

    Ghost of Ben Dreith Rookie

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    I like the effort and thought you put into the post.....but i didn't see a direct reference, or GIF, to the Sanchez butt plant.....unforgivable....for shame
  5. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    There fixed that for you.

    Dante is the man. I cannot ever get enough of seeing or posting congrats to him. Normally, you might hesitate to give props or draw attention to a guy that every other team in the league would love to promote and have. But Dante is so 'SELF-CENTERED' and comfortable with what he does, where he does it - You have to Love a guy SO GOOD, who also loves his work so much that he doesnt go seeking illusionary greener pastures.

    All up to the "independent physician" and Edelman. but if he has to sit to get better; you have to take the long term view AND it is great that he has either 10 or 17 days to rest rather than 4,5,7 or 14.

    They SUCK. The level of inconsistency and idiocy just keeps expanding under Go-to-hell. At some point you have to ask...Who is in charge? ...oh forget it, ... we just gave him an extension.
    agreed; OR maybe it's just that our RBs are too small and TB can't see them.:rolleyes: (unlike all our tall WRs).:D

    either way (whatever the reason) - a little variety in attack (speaking of which; did we not run another quick snap-single back in backfield- HANDOFF TO Ridley move again. talk about a lack of variety.) would help make opponents game planning a little tougher.

    Enough folks said before the game, that is the BB traditional approach to the 3 step drop attack [jets typical], so I am not surprised.

    How much did they do anything BEFORE THE 2Q? After that 21 pt ANNIHILATION; I can see/justify playing a bit more contain & drop into coverage as you already know Sanchize will start throwing desperately. I still need to watch 2nd half - had to go to bed at 4am & get up at 6am as it was.
    on at least one memorable (to me) one; it was actually (IMO) Mayo who failed to scrape off the block and didnt fill his gap responsibility. In his defense I don't know sometimes if these are player recognition or OL is getting away with little holds the refs dont see. But it sure looked like Mayo was just going wrong way - bunching up with guy next to him and leaving his gap to his right open. I didn't notice spikes doing that - I DID HOWEVER SEE SPIKES CAUSE THE 4th down Green FUMBLE.!!!
    You have to enjoy the moment. I think a win next week might "officially" clinch the division - so a hat & t-shirt game (particularly this early) is still worth getting up for.

    Great read as always. thanks ken.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You validate my admiration for how great a coach Dante truly is, he flies under the radar unassumingly.. and has always shown tremendous developmental ability for these young guys..

    Cannon is a great example.. when he retires, he should not wait for the Pats HOF.. just put him right in and maybe even name a parking lot after him.

    Edelman is a unique player, and not a Welker clone, he has two speeds kick azz fast and stop.. beginning to like him more and more as time goes on.. I hope his injury is not significant.

    Our D is getting better, and more intimidating.. it may not show up in the numbers, but they are playing tougher and there were no obvious "error repeaters" (thanks Tedy).. and Talib, even though he does not show up in the box score, is noticeable..

    Have contended for a while that this D backfield is not about talent, but more about leadership and veteran experience.. as a group they seemed to have settled down, Arrington is playing much better... they are all playing much better.

    Sanchez is a poor excuse for an NFL quarterback..
  7. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm still in awe of the bodysnatching job Ronnie Lott did on Steve Gregory.
  8. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It was gratifying to listen to the stadium-wide chants of TEBOW! TEBOW! coming through my speakers. Lovely sound, that, especially couple with the rounds of boos and Bronx Cheers.

    I'm going to make a fresh pot of coffee and relax until it's time for Joe Benigno on WFAN this morning. Ought to be a fun show. :D

    And Ken, thanks again for your thoughts. Always a pleasure to read.
  9. Fixit

    Fixit Rookie

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    Great thoughts as always, Ken. However, Brady completed 65% of his passes.
  10. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great stuff, Ken. Detailed comments below.

    The Jets had their backs to the wall, they were playing at home, the Pats were banged up, and it was a short week. Perfect scenario for the Jets. I didn't expect it to be nearly as close as the "experts" predicted. As SMY noted in an article yeseterday, every 2nd game in the 4 years that BB and Rex Ryan have met has been a Pats blowout: 31-14 in 2009, 45-3 in 2010, 38-17 last year. Probably a combination of the Pats peaking in the second half of the season and BB making adjustments. When Vollmer was called out for the game, I had even more of a feeling that it would be a rout.

    What's really impressive to me about this team is it's mental toughness. Tons of distractions and excuses to have a flat game, but they didn't let any of it affect them. The missed FG by Gost just got the team fired up. They are very, very focused and mentally tough, and I get the sense that they have the mental makeup to handle any adversity.

    It's also impressive how physically tough this team is. Even Pat-hater Chris Collinsworth commented that the level of physical hitting that was going on was some of the best he's seen all year, and most of it was on defense and special teams. Every play was contested, the defense swarmed. The OL did a great job, too.

    It's impressive how easily this team can put up 35 points in a quarter. They did it without breaking a sweat, and Brady missed a wide open Lloyd for what could have been another score. When they are on, it's the closest thing to fast break basketball that I've ever seen in the NFL.

    The Pats seem to almost welcome adversity as a tool to develop the team, in comparison with other teams. The OL is a case in point. The Pats lost Light and Gallery to retirement and Waters was a no-show (I can't remember seeing a Brian Waters thread in a while). Mankins has been beat up all year. Vollmer's been playing like a Pro Bowler despite his back issues. Meanwhile Solder is playing at a near Pro Bowl level and Thomas, Wendell and McDonald have stepped it up. And now Cannon. And the Pats have added 2 more young guys with potential in Mitch Petrus and Markus Zukevics.

    Edelman is emerging as a tremendous weapon - he reminds me more of Randall Cobb of Green Bay in terms of his open field and breakaway capability than of Welker. The other guy deserving of mention is Shane Vereen, who is a similar devestating open field/breakawy threat. Edelman had something like 171 yards from scrimmage and 2 TDs in the last 2 games (not including 2 more ST TDs), and Vereen had 184 yards from scrimmage and 2 more TDs.

    Imagine the Pats' offense at full strength with a healthy OL and Gronk, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Edelman, Ridley and Vereen all available. [/QUOTE]
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  12. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

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    With regards to Hernandez. It was good for him to be out there and he'll need some reps after missing pretty much most of the season. Consider it fine tuning before we need him vs the Texans/49ers.

    With regards to the short week. I hear people keep mentioning it and it seems like both teams had a short week, but the Jets played the Bills last Thursday so they actually had a full week to prepare.

    I mentioned in another thread that Brady did seem a bit off on some throws, but he was moving/sliding and running out of the pocket quite a bit too. He did complete a "normal" % of his throws and will great effect. I liked the Pats being 11-15 on third down and actually got more first downs (12) by running than passing (11).
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Never ceases to amaze me although it's getting pretty old and tired that there always has to be a caveat or criticism where Brady's performance is concerned, even when it's not remotely true. I truly believe a lot of you simply don't watch enough football played by QB's not named Brady.
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Jets played the Rams last Sunday...:bricks:
  15. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What we don't know and hopefully the team does is whether Hernandez is in fact 100% and simply rusty and/or tentative returning to live action. He certainly didn't look right to the naked eye. The way Dr. Gill's unit has performed of late who knows. Hope he put the plate in the correct forearm...
  16. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Great post as always Ken. Hard not to be excited about that performance especially from the defensive end.

    I too hope Edelman can be back out there next week, with Gronk out and Ahern still clearly hobbled he could amazingly be a key to the offense in upcoming weeks. Welker, Lloyd, him, and now Vereen as legit components in the pass game would ease the effect of the injuries.

    With Talib no news is good news, totally agree. Like I said in the other thread he doesn't need to be a shutdown corner or be a Ty Law/Asante Samuel type playmaker to have a huge impact on this D. We just need a reliable corner on his side of the field, same with Dennard to allow Arrington to play strictly in the slot and DMC at safety. That seems to me puts each player where he is best suited at the time and we're likely to see a major improvement in the secondary. Still early and yes it was the Jets, but hard to not be excited over that performance, can't wait for the Houston/SF games to see exactly where this team stands.
  17. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Classic. Of all the people here (including me) you're going to knock Patfanken's football knowledge?

    Yeah he doesn't "watch enough football" and doesn't have much of a football experience.

    :D

    C'mon Mo, you're an excellent poster, but that post is the forum equivalent of you missing the handoff, running into Brandon Moore's backside and de-cleating yourself.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  18. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    You know what never ceases to amaze me, Mo. The fact that it must be an arduous journey every day up that mountain every day to that throne of yours, where look down on us mere mortals and pontificate what is right and wrong in the universe.

    If you weren't so busy telling the rest of us what to think, you would have noticed that far from criticizing Brady, I am constantly amazed that DESPITE not having one of his "better" days. TFB can put up numbers that would be a career day for a mere mortal QB. Yes Mo, 56% is NOT Brady's usual accuracy level, and its not blasphemy to say it.

    Believe me, Brady is a lot more upset about the passes he missed than I am. Its not unreasonable for any good Pats fan to compare Tom Brady, not to other QB's in the league, but to the high standards he sets for himself.

    ......and if you thought that was Tom Brady's more accurate games, then you sir must be coming down with altitude sickness from too much time on Mt. Olympus, and you should spend more time down here with the rest of us. ;)
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  19. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    He was 18/28 which is 64.3% which is only slightly off his average of 65.1%.
  20. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just came back from a meeting and was going to post that also.

    Ken, your football knowledge IS great, you may want to invest in a calculator, though! ;)
  21. PP2

    PP2 Rookie

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    Are you kidding? He was atrocious, period. The fact that we scored 49 despite that is scary to me.
  22. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rookie

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    Agreed; Brady was great, but a number of balls sailed on him or got driven too low. The fact that a handful of off target passes stands out more speaks for how good Brady is than anything. However this is the type of game that the Pats would've struggled with over the past few years; it's nice that at least in this case the game wasn't resting solely on Brady.
  23. I.M. Fletcher

    I.M. Fletcher Rookie

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    Great read as usual.

    a couple of my own thoughts:

    A couple weeks ago when Belichick called Vereen a "faulk clone", to say the least my ears perked up. Last week we had a couple viewings of it, but it really started to take shape last night. The touchdown catch was obviously the highlight (especially how he caught it and ran in one motion), but the play that solidified it for me was the 3rd and 8 where he busted through a Landry arm tackle. It doesnt seem like much in hindsight, but it was a 16pt game, after the Jets just put 9 straight on the board. The ensuing touchdown put the game away, but that doesnt happen without that after-thought firstdown. Very impressive, and very Faulk-like.

    Everyone keeps loving or hating the defense and comparing it to our past teams, but really I see a closer resemblance to the 2009 Saints. Big chunks of yards, only one or two qb pressuring threats, and a ton of timely turnovers. When you have an incredibly efficient offense, the D just has to win the turnovers, which we are doing at an incredibly high rate (26 takeaways, 12 for 2nd place).

    On the same note, for those looking for comparable games, last night was like the monday night game we got trampled on by the Saints. You could almost hear Rex saying the same things that Belickick was saying that night, about no buy in and inability to get anything going.

    Edelman has been touched on, but I cant go by without saying how impressive hes been. To have the ability to change the complexion of the game in so many different ways is exactly what the coaching staff always values to the highest degree. I loved seeing him and Brady jawing sweet nothings at each other after the touchdown, almost fighting to see who the most intense player is. If he can find himself on the field on a more consistent basis, you could easily see him slide into a more important role a year from now.

    I seem to always forget about Lloyd, but for a player who is only in his first year on the team, his connection with Brady seems years in the making. He fought for extra yards last night, made the important catches when needed, and was just where he was supposed to be. Hes effectively become the new Branch, but without 10 years of playing experience with brady. I know everyone was expecting a deep threat, but what Lloyd is doing is something we would have missed dearly with Branch taking a step back.

    I love that Landry thought it wise to jaw at our guys down 30, makes it easier knowing they made the right decision not to sign him.
  24. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    Patsy, what this defense needs more than anything, is CONTINUITY. Its the 2nd youngest defense in the league, and above all hey need time playing together.

    I think this defense will continue to progress, but they can't reach their potential THIS year. Just not enough time. But its coming guys. A top 10 defense is coming.
  25. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The pleasing thing for me from yesterday's performance is Dont'a Hightower is beginning to look like the impact player I had hoped he would be at the time of drafting.

    The Patriots D would be scary had they been able to acquire Red Bryant and Dashon Goldson given the improvement of the rookies. There's still a heap of work to do and despite the yards, it's pleasing to see that unit get some TD reward for their effort.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2012
  26. PP2

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    Except for when he chased that seam route! :bricks:
  27. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, I would like to see more out of his coverage skills to be honest. I may be wrong, but I felt like there was a lot of hype regarding Hightower and his ability to be one of our better coverage LBs--amongst many other things that he could possibly do here.

    It's good to see him progressing, but if I had to pick a side I may lean a little more towards Ken's (OP) opinion that Hightower has been somewhat of a disappointment to this date in ways.

    That said, obviously a rookie often takes some time in this kind of system more often than not, and I would imagine that his roles will have some variance to them as time moves on.

    He has a few sacks on the year IIRC, and has started to look better at times in the last few games. One great thing is that he is yet another younger player who is a nice piece to the continued building of a potentially great defense in another year or so.
  28. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    [/QUOTE]

    Mmm ... I agree with pretty much everything. Thanks!

    Edelman vs. Welker -- well, they're being used in different roles. Welker is the catch-everything-when-the-pressure-is-on-make-it-to-the-sticks-when-you-really-have-to guy. I doubt there has ever been anyone who did that better. Edelman has become Mr YAC. I'm so impressed with how much more imaginative and ambitious he's become with his punt returns and it seems to me it's paying off in his receiver play. The long TD was extraordinary. It will be interesting to see how he develops as a pressure pass-catcher. But I pray NOT because he has to take on the role from WW ...
  29. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree. I want them both, and I like how you defined their roles.

    The other guy who I see as being a "Mr YAC" kind of weapon is Vereen. He's a nightmare in space for opposing defenses, and he needs to be involved more in the offense, as I and several others have been hoping for since he was drafted. He's finally showing signs of being the player we thought he was.

    Greg Bedard wrote earlier this year about the "Oregonization" of the Pats offense with the extreme up tempo approach. Part of making that really devastating includes having guys like Edelman and Vereen who can create separation and turn small plays into big gains. Push the tempo and find those guys with a step or two in space, and let them turn the play into a big gain, perhaps more. If you add that dimension on top of the ball control intermediate passing game using the TEs and Welker and the power running game, there is really too much for any defense to be able to handle, especially under the pressure of an up tempo approach. You can get gashed by Ridley, sliced and diced by Welker and Hernandez, overpowered by Gronk, or if you let your guard down guys like Edelman and Vereen can burn you. Danny Woodhead fits into that model, and Jeff Demps will too once he develops.
  30. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ha, I see! Multiple smurf-attack!

    The teams that seem more Oregon-like to me have mobile, sling-it quarterbacks and multiple fast, elastic pass catchers -- Washington, for example. But I see where you're going with Vereen. Me, I've yet to be convinced that he has something special. But I was like that last year with Ridley (now: wow!) Happy to drink the Koolaid!
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