Idle thoughts - going "camping"

[patfanken]

Great info, Ken. I picked out a couple to discuss.
I think that nickel/dime DTs are a much more critical issue to us that the elusive answer to who will play RDE in the 34.
Personally, I did not feel the loss of Seymour hurt us all that much in the base 34 but was deadly to us in rushing the passer up the middle in sub packages.
Not saying that Seymours run D wasnt excellent but the impact of that downgrade paled in comparison to his pressure up the middle.
I think that Wright is effective in that role, and I have hope that Warren and/or Lewis can be. If those 2 guys are effective in that role, we have made big improvement on the DL regardless of what happens at the base RE spot.

I'm really glad you picked those 2 areas to discuss Andy

1. I'm very serious about the concept of the inside pass rush. If you have the ability to PREDICT pressure then you can tighten your coverages accordingly. For example if you KNOW that your rush is going to force the QB to get rid of the ball to one of his short options, you can tighten your short coverages and take more chances on making a big play.

The Jets did an excellent job of this. People forget that they only had ONE more sack than the Pats last season, but their philosophy was that making the QB feel the heat was just as important as actually sacking him.

When QBs feel the heat, they look to get rid of the ball. If as a Defense I know that, then I can pressure short routes because I know the ball will be out of the QB's hands fast. The true beauty of what the Jets do, is that often the QB will get rid of the ball faster than he has to just because of the PERCEIVED pressure, rather than the actual pressure

The best way to make a QB feel the heat is to pressure him up the middle. This is how you get a QB out of his rhythm. It keeps him from stepping up. It funnels him into the outside rushers, It makes him throw while his feet are moving laterally or backwards, which can often cause inaccurate throws.

THe good news is that there are so many good things that happen when you can pressure the QB from the inside. The bad news is that its hard to do. I think you have to be very creative and daring. But the strategies of creating an inside rush would be best talked about in another thread.

2. On your other point I think were we missed Richard the most, especially late in the season, was his run defense. I thought Green didn't hold up well vs the rush, and late in the season , neither did Wright. OTOH, Wright proved to be a better than expect rusher, not only in the 5.5 sacks he made, but in the numerous pressures he had. But it looks like Wright loses effectiveness the more snaps he has over the season, so I think he will be more effective with the extra DL depth we will have this season

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Say hello to Spikes, pressure up the middle.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm really glad you picked those 2 areas to discuss Andy

1. I'm very serious about the concept of the inside pass rush. If you have the ability to PREDICT pressure then you can tighten your coverages accordingly. For example if you KNOW that your rush is going to force the QB to get rid of the ball to one of his short options, you can tighten your short coverages and take more chances on making a big play.

The Jets did an excellent job of this. People forget that they only had ONE more sack than the Pats last season, but their philosophy was that making the QB feel the heat was just as important as actually sacking him.

When QBs feel the heat, they look to get rid of the ball. If as a Defense I know that, then I can pressure short routes because I know the ball will be out of the QB's hands fast. The true beauty of what the Jets do, is that often the QB will get rid of the ball faster than he has to just because of the PERCEIVED pressure, rather than the actual pressure

The best way to make a QB feel the heat is to pressure him up the middle. This is how you get a QB out of his rhythm. It keeps him from stepping up. It funnels him into the outside rushers, It makes him throw while his feet are moving laterally or backwards, which can often cause inaccurate throws.

THe good news is that there are so many good things that happen when you can pressure the QB from the inside. The bad news is that its hard to do. I think you have to be very creative and daring. But the strategies of creating an inside rush would be best talked about in another thread.

2. On your other point I think were we missed Richard the most, especially late in the season, was his run defense. I thought Green didn't hold up well vs the rush, and late in the season , neither did Wright. OTOH, Wright proved to be a better than expect rusher, not only in the 5.5 sacks he made, but in the numerous pressures he had. But it looks like Wright loses effectiveness the more snaps he has over the season, so I think he will be more effective with the extra DL depth we will have this season

We could spend hours on #1. Its a vicious cycle. If you can't get pressure, you can't play tight coverage. If you blitz you have to play tight coverage. One of the most basic concepts of our defense is to not give up the big play. While playing a pressure type of defense seems great when it works, you are asking for a heap of trouble playing it and failing at it.
You make an excellent point, that BB has described, and I won't come close to being as good at explaining, but the rush and the coverage are timed up with each other.
Teams that don't get a lot of pressure without blitzing, usually arent as successful at creating it with the blitz. If your pass rushers are not so good, the ability to pick up the blitzer increases and now your blitzer is picked up and your rushers are less likely to beat their guy straight up. You have dbs covering tighter (because if the blitz had worked the ball comes out quick) and suddenly the QB has all day.

As far as point 2, as I said I'm not downplaying Seymours run D, Im just saying the degradation of the inside rush was much more troublesome for us. We could have gotten by fine (and for the most part we did, by allowing the 5th fewest points) with a less than stellar run D moreso than missing that inside force on passing downs. Even in the Batimore game, aside from 1 play, we allowed 3 yards a carry. If the offense came near its capability the run D would never have cost us that game. Without turnovers and the big lead, that run game, aside from 7-0 wouldn't have controlled the game. I know 80+ on the first snap and big yardage total in the worst playoff performance of the BB era is burned into our minds, but contrary to popular belief they didnt line up like the 72 Dolphins and hand it off every play for unstoppable 80 yard drives.
I thought the biggest flaw in our run D compared to other years was actually the number of big plays more than teams consistently running on us throughout games. (From memory, I havent looked it up) And as BB has said the first 10-12 yards are on the front 7 and everything after that is the secondaries job.

In any event, I am encouraged that we have more players that seem capable and experienced in some cases and bringing an inside rush.
I had really hoped that BB would play with moving Burgess inside on 3rd down. He did that in Philly and was a quickness mismatch, and still seemed to be strong enough to get it done, even though he was light for the spot.

 

[signbabybrady]

I'm really glad you picked those 2 areas to discuss Andy

1. I'm very serious about the concept of the inside pass rush. If you have the ability to PREDICT pressure then you can tighten your coverages accordingly. For example if you KNOW that your rush is going to force the QB to get rid of the ball to one of his short options, you can tighten your short coverages and take more chances on making a big play.

The Jets did an excellent job of this. People forget that they only had ONE more sack than the Pats last season, but their philosophy was that making the QB feel the heat was just as important as actually sacking him.

When QBs feel the heat, they look to get rid of the ball. If as a Defense I know that, then I can pressure short routes because I know the ball will be out of the QB's hands fast. The true beauty of what the Jets do, is that often the QB will get rid of the ball faster than he has to just because of the PERCEIVED pressure, rather than the actual pressure

The best way to make a QB feel the heat is to pressure him up the middle. This is how you get a QB out of his rhythm. It keeps him from stepping up. It funnels him into the outside rushers, It makes him throw while his feet are moving laterally or backwards, which can often cause inaccurate throws.

THe good news is that there are so many good things that happen when you can pressure the QB from the inside. The bad news is that its hard to do. I think you have to be very creative and daring. But the strategies of creating an inside rush would be best talked about in another thread.

2. On your other point I think were we missed Richard the most, especially late in the season, was his run defense. I thought Green didn't hold up well vs the rush, and late in the season , neither did Wright. OTOH, Wright proved to be a better than expect rusher, not only in the 5.5 sacks he made, but in the numerous pressures he had. But it looks like Wright loses effectiveness the more snaps he has over the season, so I think he will be more effective with the extra DL depth we will have this season

To piggy back this thought....During tonites practice 8/2 Gerrard Warren and Damione Lewis had some decent pressure up the middle

 

[Ring 6]

To piggy back this thought....During tonites practice 8/2 Gerrard Warren and Damione Lewis had some decent pressure up the middle

I gotta believe that this will be an area of stark improvement this year.
Ty Warren was always overshadowed by Seymour who generated as much pressure out of nickel/dime as any DT in the league probably, but Warren is very skilled in this area too. Last year he was very limited in his chances to do that. Slowed by injury he was rarely in on sub packages, something he has done most of his career, and done well. Hopefully he is 100% this year, and that alone improves our sub rush package.
Mike Wright, IMO, is a good nickel/dime rush DT. I think we mostly all agree on that.
G Warren and Lewis have been those type of guys their entire career, staying on the field on 3rd down to get an inside rush.
Some think Pryor can do the job too.
I'm not counting on Wilfork here, but on a limited basis, he could contribute some.

There is a lot of discussion of the OLBs pass rushing, but if the inside pressure is good, we immediately become a better pass rushing team.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

On paper, I like our DL much more than last year. No pass rush demon yet, but a good amount of DTs.

 

[patfanken]

Again its not the sacks, but the pressure that is critical. Make the QB get the ball out quickly. Make the QB move his feet. Don't allow him to step up. Be able to "predict" a quick release....and then react to it.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Again its not the sacks, but the pressure that is critical. Make the QB get the ball out quickly. Make the QB move his feet. Don't allow him to step up. Be able to "predict" a quick release....and then react to it.

I just got back from Pats TC and thought Brady looked light years ahead of last year. I know he wasn't facing "live" competition per se, but man what a difference a year makes.

Same with Moss. Clearly he is in sync with Brady.

Problems:

1.) Pass rush is putrid. Almost a joke!

2.) Secondary is not much better than last year. I know everybody is harping on them being improved, but I did not see it.

3.) Interior O line has a Mankins size hole in it and with Kazcur out, the back ups look ghastly horrible and the rookies look lost and confused. Although Larsen could be the big nasty center in a year or two that we desperately need.

Most impressive rookie. Hernandez by about 40 miles. If he quits dropping the ball, Brady will be able to throw to him all day, because he can create seperation.

We are in trouble if..... Spikes is on the field this year in the base defense. Man is he SSSLLLOOOWWWWWWW in coverage. What was BB thinking?

I am thinking we could be see a lot of high scoring games this year. brady looks great, Moss and the passing game look great. We have no running game and no defense.

 

[signbabybrady]

I just got back from Pats TC and thought Brady looked light years ahead of last year. I know he wasn't facing "live" competition per se, but man what a difference a year makes.

Same with Moss. Clearly he is in sync with Brady.

Problems:

1.) Pass rush is putrid. Almost a joke!

2.) Secondary is not much better than last year. I know everybody is harping on them being improved, but I did not see it.

3.) Interior O line has a Mankins size hole in it and with Kazcur out, the back ups look ghastly horrible and the rookies look lost and confused. Although Larsen could be the big nasty center in a year or two that we desperately need.

Most impressive rookie. Hernandez by about 40 miles. If he quits dropping the ball, Brady will be able to throw to him all day, because he can create seperation.

We are in trouble if..... Spikes is on the field this year in the base defense. Man is he SSSLLLOOOWWWWWWW in coverage. What was BB thinking?

I am thinking we could be see a lot of high scoring games this year. brady looks great, Moss and the passing game look great. We have no running game and no defense.

Curious which practice you attended? was it this morning or last night?

 

[signbabybrady]

On paper, I like our DL much more than last year. No pass rush demon yet, but a good amount of DTs.

IMO the math is simple. We lost Big Sey before last year and really had no replacement. We lost Green this year but we brought in Lewis and Warren. Two in Two out this year opposed to one out no in last year (I know we drafted brace and had other options but that is how it shook out in the end. Sure it could fail just the same but on Paper the DL seems more equipped to be without seymour than last years team).

 

[patfanken]

Problems:

1.) Pass rush is putrid. Almost a joke!

Jees OJ, take a chill pill. Based on the drills that we can see from the stands, I don't see how you can possibly determine how good or bad the pass rush is. several people have reported that we seem to be getting a good push up the middle. We will actually know very little about the pass rush until we get into the preseason games and scrimmages

2.) Secondary is not much better than last year. I know everybody is harping on them being improved, but I did not see it.

Be specific. There seems to be a significant improvement in speed, athleticism, and the 2nd year jump of Chung and Butler. Again its difficult to judge since you can't hit the QBs and at this stage of the preseason, the offense has the advantage.

3.) Interior O line has a Mankins size hole in it and with Kazcur out, the back ups look ghastly horrible and the rookies look lost and confused. Although Larsen could be the big nasty center in a year or two that we desperately need.

Again you must have better eyes than I, because the OL practices beyond visual range. BTW if, in your impression, the D isn't getting a rush, doesn't that mean the OL is doing a great job in pass protecting? You can't have it both ways. Though I would feel a lot better about the situation if Kazcur were practicing.

Most impressive rookie. Hernandez by about 40 miles. If he quits dropping the ball, Brady will be able to throw to him all day, because he can create seperation.

Agree here, but I didn't see him drop any catchable balls in the practice I went to, though he did turn one "uncatchable" ball into a completion.

We are in trouble if..... Spikes is on the field this year in the base defense. Man is he SSSLLLOOOWWWWWWW in coverage. What was BB thinking?

Well again, that's your observation and though I would differ to some degree. I wouldn't worry about it since on passing down it is unlikely that Spikes will be on the field unless he's blitzing

I am thinking we could be see a lot of high scoring games this year. brady looks great, Moss and the passing game look great. We have no running game and no defense.

This is an improved D that allowed less than 17 points per game last season. It will win a vast majority of games it scores over 24 points. ie if we score 24 in each of the regular season, which is unlikely, but if we did, I would be very surprised if weren't 12-4 or better