Idle thoughts.....and the rant continues, and other assorted thoughts

[Deus Irae]

I know you wrote opinions vary, but you truly jumped the shark with those last three listed.

That's delusional.

I would also reverse #2 going the other way.

You'd be wrong on all of it.

So, nothing unusual for you.........

 

[ivanvamp]

2.) Opinions will vary, but:
Light 2007 > Light 2011
Mankins 2011 > Mankins 2007
Koppen 2007 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Connolly 2011 (by a country mile)
Neal 2007 > Waters 2011
Kaczur 2007 = Solder/Vollmer 2011

Holy crap Deus, you've gotta be kidding.

Light has been tremendous this year - at worst it's a wash for the 2011 team there. But let's grant that anyway....

Connolly 2011 has been really, really good. As good as Koppen was in 2007? Maybe not, but it's close.

But the other three? Holy smokes. Neal in 2007 was good. When healthy, at times very good. Waters has been one of the best offensive linemen in the entire league this year. Not even close...edge Waters.

Mankins 2011 has been way better than Mankins 2007, so I agree there.

But there is no way in hell that Kaczur in 2007 was as good as Vollmer and (primarily) Solder have been this year. Kaczur was a replacement-level OT at best. Vollmer, when healthy, is very good and Solder was terrific.

The 2011 Pats' OL is much better - and much healthier going into the SB - than the 2007 group was.

 

[Deus Irae]

Holy crap Deus, you've gotta be kidding.

Light has been tremendous this year - at worst it's a wash for the 2011 team there. But let's grant that anyway....

Connolly 2011 has been really, really good. As good as Koppen was in 2007? Maybe not, but it's close.

But the other three? Holy smokes. Neal in 2007 was good. When healthy, at times very good. Waters has been one of the best offensive linemen in the entire league this year. Not even close...edge Waters.

Mankins 2011 has been way better than Mankins 2007, so I agree there.

But there is no way in hell that Kaczur in 2007 was as good as Vollmer and (primarily) Solder have been this year. Kaczur was a replacement-level OT at best. Vollmer, when healthy, is very good and Solder was terrific.

The 2011 Pats' OL is much better - and much healthier going into the SB - than the 2007 group was.

I remember people vastly overrating Vollmer as a rookie, too. Y'all are doing the same thing with Solder/Connolly this year, and you're vastly underrating how good Neal was in 2007. I could understand people trying to argue Neal = Waters, and I can even see people trying to argue that Waters was slightly better than Neal (not that I'd go anywhere near that), but placing Waters well above Neal? Sorry, not buying it, even for a penny.

 

[ivanvamp]

I remember people vastly overrating Vollmer as a rookie, too. Y'all are doing the same thing with Solder/Connolly this year, and you're vastly underrating how good Neal was in 2007. I could understand people trying to argue Neal = Waters, but placing Waters above Neal? Sorry, not buying it, even for a penny.

Well, obviously we all have a right to our own opinions. But some opinions are less...um...connected to reality than others.

Stephen Neal was a good (very good, at times) right guard. Brian Waters is a 6-time pro bowler (so he has the credentials) who was phenomenal for the Patriots this year. Waters has been - and was again this year - on the very short list as being among the best at his position in the NFL. Neal, while good, has never even sniffed that level.

Comparing the two isn't fair to Neal, and it does a serious injustice to Waters.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

2.) Opinions will vary, but:
Light 2007 > Light 2011
Mankins 2011 > Mankins 2007
Koppen 2007 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Connolly 2011 (by a country mile)
Neal 2007 > Waters 2011
Kaczur 2007 = Solder/Vollmer 2011

Are you and skip bayless sharing the same drugs?

I'm not sure which Light is better. Light shouldn't be as good this year as he was in 2007 and I'd say it's a draw.

Makins started slow, but has come on strong. Mankins was very good in 2007, but he wasn't in the SB. Still, can't argue too much.

Koppen has trouble dealing with the heavier groups and while Connolly is our 3rd (2nd?) center, he's still doing the job well

The rest, 2011 is by far better than 2007. Neal was a beast at his best (but often injured), but Waters is a pro-bowler and deserved to be there. You may be allowing a sack to impede your judgement of Solder.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I remember people vastly overrating Vollmer as a rookie, too. Y'all are doing the same thing with Solder/Connolly this year, and you're vastly underrating how good Neal was in 2007. I could understand people trying to argue Neal = Waters, and I can even see people trying to argue that Waters was slightly better than Neal (not that I'd go anywhere near that), but placing Waters well above Neal? Sorry, not buying it, even for a penny.

I agree with you on Neal Deus but wasnt he lost early in that game, the line seemed to fall apart without Neal, maybe it had communication problems, not sure but it looked really awful with Neal out. Of course someone could go down this year too but if they stay healthy I think this line is better than that line sans neal.

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree with you on Neal Deus but wasnt he lost early in that game, the line seemed to fall apart without Neal, maybe it had communication problems, not sure but it looked really awful with Neal out. Of course someone could go down this year too but if they stay healthy I think this line is better than that line sans neal.

Yes, Neal went down in the second quarter.

 

[shmessy]

You'd be wrong on all of it.

So, nothing unusual for you.........

Sure, so lemme get this right (between lfmao'ing);

Kazcur was better than Solder/Vollmer

Neal was better than Waters

and Koppen was "a country mile" better than Connolly.



Wow. That's incredible even for you.

Honestly that's a Deus Irae Super Bowl Special.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sure, so lemme get this right (between lfmao'ing);

Kazcur was better than Solder/Vollmer

Neal was better than Waters

and Koppen was "a country mile" better than Connolly.



Wow. That's incredible even for you.

Honestly that's a Deus Irae Super Bowl Special.

Now you can't read?

Last I checked, the "=" does not mean better than.

As for the other two, you're welcome to hold your own opinions. 2011 Connolly couldn't even beat out 2011 Koppen, but you go with the idea that 2011 Connolly was better than 2007 Koppen if that makes you feel better.

 

[patfanken]

Originally Posted by Deus Irae
2.) Opinions will vary, but:
Light 2007 > Light 2011
Mankins 2011 > Mankins 2007
Koppen 2007 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Connolly 2011 (by a country mile)
Neal 2007 > Waters 2011
Kaczur 2007 = Solder/Vollmer 2011

WOW DI, I find this is kind of shocking and seriously discredits your overall credibility as far as analyzing football production....if not your general grasp on reality.

Let me take them one by one.

The 2007 Matt Light was a very good, but not elite level LT who always had problems with "some" speed rushers, but made up for it in his superior run blocking and overall effectiveness. The 2011 Matt Light has been exceptional against all the speed rushers he faced this year and he has faced some of the best. Very surprising IMHO. However I do think he's not as impactful in the run game as he was in his prime. At worst its a wash, though on a predominately passing team, I think his overall value is better now than then.

We agree on Mankins so lets move on.

Koppen might be a better overall C than Connolly who lacks his quickness. BUT his is much better at setting the middle in pass blocking because his is bigger and stronger. His effectiveness has also been maximized because many more teams are playing with a nose man on 2011 than in 2007. For THIS year, and for THIS offense. Dan Connolly has actually been a more effective C than Dan Koppen would have been even if healthy, especially when 2 out of 3 games he'd be facing a 3-4 base

Now this one was really delusional for a couple of reasons - Steven Neal was an excellent RG, but on his best day was never as good as Brian Waters was in his prime. And Brian Waters had one of his best years, despite his age. Secondly Neal when out in the FIRST series in that game so whether he is better or not is completely irrelevant. But you never let the facts get in the way of hammering home your point of view do you?.

And to say that Kaczur was even close to the same level as Solder and Volmer is again delusional. Kaczur was a journeyman RT who started 3 years and played his last game in 2009 and is out of the league. You underrated Volmer, but that's not the point since his role in this game will be limited to the "heavy formation" when Solder is a TE, and VASTLY underrate Solder who has been spectacular against speed rushers, good against power rushers and can be beaten from time to time on a good inside move. BOTH are better than Kaczur, who was always the worst Pats OLman every year he started.

Now I have to question why you open yourself up to ridicule making such outlandish assessments. just to prove a point that doesn't need to be proven

 

[PatsDeb]

LOL. I had no idea there was a Deus/Shmessy smack down going on in this thread. I would have read it sooner!