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Idle thoughts.....and the rant continues, and other assorted thoughts

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Feb 2, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I've watched the coverage the last week and a half fairly closely, and I've read all the disrespectful things that have been said. I have also posted 2 long threads early in the process to point out where the mediots have erred. Yet they STILL persist in their slanted bias of the way this game is being presented to the public.

    Now understand, I have been consistent in my stance that I'm actually quite happy to see this. No one likes being the underdog more than me. But its finally gettng to me. Day after day its the same thing, Any analysis about the Pats is presented negatively. (Gronk's ankle, Brady's questionable performances, no wins againstg winning teams, the Giant's pass rush, etc, etc, etc.) Conversely any analysis on the Giants is portrayed positively. (their pass rush, Eli, their Wrs. Who they played, etc, etc, ) Its positively uncanny. It doesn't matter if its ESPN. NFLN. Comcast NE or the local press. For the most part its always the same.

    1. Mgcolby beat me to THE key element in this game, and it isn't how the Pats OL is going to deal the Giant pass rush. Its how the GIANTS OL is going to deal with the Pats' pass rush. Its a must read.. One of his key points is while it might be possible to explain why Eli took such a beating from the SF DL, it doesn't explain why he took such a beating from the weak rushing Packers.

    2. Its kind or ironic that Giants are in a similar situation that hurt the Pats in 2007. This time it will be Eli needing to take deep drops in order to run the deep routes to Nix and Maningham. It will be a weaker Giants OL who will be tasked to defend their QB from a team that has just one less sack than the Giants....it one less game. This is a great match up for the Pats, yet there has been nary a word said about it in the national discussion.

    3. Victor Cruz is a GREAT story. One filled with redemption, hard work ,and beating the odds. It even has a local aspect.. I'm writing the screenplay as we speak. That being said, can anyone tell me how a guy who has caught 120 pass, for 3 years in a row has been turned into a non-factor by the mediots. If it hadn't been for his mustache and his pending engagement to a Hooter's girl, Wes Welker's potential impact on this game, according to the mediots, would seem to be inconsequential.

    4. Watching Gronk get off the plain, speedwalking in his boot filled me with optimism. Watching him come across the field on media day without the boot, and hearing he wasn't wearing a compression sleeve, raise my expectations even higher. HOWEVER the fact that he couldn't even practice on a limited basis on Wednesday, worries me.......a lot. These practices are IMPORTANT and if he doesn't participate at least on a limited basis on Thursday., then I will start to believe my worst fears.

    5. Prediction – The Pats will line up with Waters-Volmer-Solder on one side of the OL at least 10-15 times in the game. Solder will catch at least one pass.

    6. If Gronk IS limited, Ocho is going to be targeted at least 5 times in this game – 3 of them deep routes – Better late than never

    7. Look for Ninko to have a BIG day.

    8. I find it interesting and perhaps telling that despite the fact that the prevailing common wisdom is that the Giants are going to win this game, the odds have only dropped a half point. While the national mediots and so called experts have given this game to the Giants, some VERY smart guys in Vegas, STILL think the Pats are the favorites

    9. I think while the Giants “might” rack up a couple of sacks, hits and hurries, they WILL NOT get the consistent pressure everyone seems to expect, (despite the current evidence to the contrary), so if Brady has merely a good game, and we are even in TO's I think the Pats will break open a close game in the 4th quarter and win this game by 10 or more points. I also think the Pats will get more pressure on Eli, than the Giants will on Brady.

    Why you may ask. Why am I so optimistic in the face of this media on slot I think it all can be summed up in BB's demeanor. I think he knows EXACTLY what to expect from Gronk and he doesn't care one way or the other. I think he loves the match ups, despite his injury I think he loves his game plan. I think he loves his team's mental make up, and toughness. I think he sees this game very much like he saw the 2004 game.

    I remember clip of him at the last team meeting before the night before that game. After he did the Philly parade thing, he held up the Lombardi trophy and I paraphrase “Gentlemen, just go out there and DO YOUR JOB, and tomorrow you will be champions” I think he will give this team the same kind of message

    Now because this game is still played and reffed by men, and the ball is an oblong spheroid that takes a lot of funny bounces, it won't be a shock if the Pats were to lose this game. This is the NFL and despite my own personal optimism, I recognize how hard it is to win any football game, let alone to the team that is playing the best ball in its conference. I've come full circle these past 10 days. There were days were I was buying the hype, and couldn't see how the Pats could win this game. There were days when I didn't. Those days were I looked at what the mdiots WEREN'T saying and felt some hope.

    And tonight as I write this, I too have embraced that calm feeling of confidence we have see in BB this week. I know this won't be an easy game by any means and that the Pats will certainly lose if they don't bring their A game, BUT if they do,like I expect them to, they will win going away., and it won't matter how well the Giants play.

    So I call on all of you Pats fans to let BB's calm confidence envolop you (even the chicken littles). Let the mediot bias just wash past you, like an impudent breeze, and let these last few days before Sunday, be spent without angst or worry. This team and coaching staff are ready. It is what it is..........Amen. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  2. supafly

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    Thanks for the great read, Ken.

    I too, have gone back and forth a bit; from very optimistic in the beginning to somewhat leery as of late, and I agree that I hope some of this incredible mediot bias is not getting past the Belicheckian barrier that he has put in front of the players. For a team that's favored in Vegas, they sure are underdogs in the eyes of the public. I can't remember such a yr in awhile (maybe Pittsburgh -7 vs Arizona) where everyone was so "clear" that one team would win and not the other. I actually thought last yr's game was un-even with a clear Packer win, but most were split.

    As for Gronk---I don't think he practices, unless it's a walkthrough. They are not going to limit what he can do Sunday by playing with fire, should he retweak it or have to deal with some pain from practice. They are only holding out hope at this point that he can go one more time, at least in my opinion. I am not expecting him to practice. I think this is a rare occassion due to circumstance where BB allows him to play despite not practicing.

    As far as the team sacks go, it was a bit more one-sided then you may think, even though I believe you are referring to the postseason stats alone. In the regular season, the NYG were tied with the Ravens with 48 sacks, while the Pats produced 40. The NYG were tied for 3rd, while the Pats were out of the top 10 altogether. Regardless, the point still stands about our DL pressure, and increased improvement. Hopefully they will get to Manning, and actually be able to bring him down this time. Those 'deeper' drops and routes that you talk about seem to worry me to some degree, and I actually feel as though our secondary coverage will be slightly more key than the DL, it terms of giving the defense that one or two extra seconds to bring him down. The secondary will have to have a great performance, or at least limit him in some way, and cause a couple of key turnovers.

    #85---I am not even 100% sure that he will be active, to be honest. It will be a close component of the game to keep an eye on. His demeanor this week may have given us a 'tell' about the possibility that he may already know something. I obviously hope I am wrong, and there's a good chance that I could be. If he does get looks, then he had better run the right routes, and put himself in a good situation to succeed. Wouldn't it be something if he made some nice contribution, with a couple/few key catches?

    I am baffled at the point spread, and am a big player all season with sides and totals. I can't figure out for the life of me why the spread has not gone down more, but common sense says that it will. I am actually expecting something around a 1 pt spread by kickoff, to be honest. Public perception is a strong thing, and the analysis here is that (according the Vegas themselves) "most of the betting has not taken place yet." The approximation was somewhere around 50-60% have not wagered as of yet.

    Thanks again for the great read, and the boost of optimism. I certainly think that we can win the game, and I would see it somewhere around the 10 pt range too, with a close game in the late 3rd and mid 4th. The only situation that worries me is the youth and inexperience of the team vs the experience on the NYG side in more 'big game situations' late in the yr. The NYG have now rattled off a good 5 straight against competition close or better than themselves, and are playing with a lot of confidence due to the fact. They have been in must win mode for awhile, and mostly on the road to boot.

    Let's hope for some great gameplanning, and for the Pats defense to come out firing on all cylinders. I certainly don't want the intense heartbreak that goes with another big SB loss.
     
  3. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson In the Starting Line-Up

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    Nice read, Ken. Re-watching the 2007 SB and this years Giants game has helped my optimism. From 2007 to 2011 the O-line protection is vastly improved, the Patriots got a decent rush on Eli and had several QB hits, the Pats stuffed the run, and believe it or not the Pats secondary were physical and made several nice plays. The TE Ballard got his clock cleaned on two plays over the middle by Spikes and Chung that made him cough of the ball.
     
  4. RelocatedPatFan

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    I certainly understnd the media's fascination with reaking all the records, the big touchdown slam, and his overall enthusiam for the game. One thing they don't think about is Aaron Hernandez who can certainly play a Veronon /davis type role and exploit the Giants secondary.


    Just seeing now that the Giants only have 4 sacks against the 2 TE set. so it may be important to have Gronk out there the whole time or have Solder fill in as the 3rd tight end.

    Great point about Welker, but we have to remember the media isn't the Giants staff. I doubt the coaches and even the players take this game lightly.
     
  5. sevengables_2207

    sevengables_2207 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Great post.

    I felt the same way regarding Gronk when I found out he did not practice yesterday. Hopefully he will be able to put in some work on a limited basis today and/or tomorrow, but until he does, I too am worried about his availability/effectiveness this Sunday.
     
  6. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Pax vobiscum, my Brutha. Pax vobiscum.
     
  7. Buchanty

    Buchanty On the Game Day Roster

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    As always a great read, Ken. And yes I fully agree with the points you make, every last one.

    I would only add one thing about the media and that is that the Patriots are facing the same media barrage as they did in SB42. The topics may be different but the intensity of NY based media is as negative now as it was then. I keep reminding myself of the furor created by spygate and stoked throughout the season, the Matt Walsh disclosure during SB week (phony as it turned out) of filming Rams SB practice), the day before the SB Arlen Specter announcing:

    My strong preference is for the NFL to activate a Mitchell-type investigation, I have been careful not to call for a Congressional hearing because I believe the NFL should step forward and embrace an independent inquiry and Congress is extraordinarily busy on other matters. If the NFL continues to leave a vacuum, Congress may be tempted to fill it.

    And to this day millions of fans across the nation are convinced that we cheated by stealing signals and that we filmed our competition's SB practices.

    This year's diatribes are worse because there is no handle (like spygate in 08) on which to hang their rancor. Instead every minute of every broadcast hour is spent in glorifying a decent team and disparaging a better one. It has been an uncomfortable 10 days and counting to be a Pats fan. The media allows no good news and amplifies the bad, even to the point of intercepting mail from player's wives to create banner headlines. I understand having preferences and declaring them, but the opinions are being presented as objective fact rather than subjective interpretation. Unfortunately there is little we can do about this, other than to turn of the television and radio and wait for the game to play. I can imagine a lot of sponsors would be very unhappy if we collectively removed their marketing audience.

    Thanks for reminding us that there are many reasons to be optimistic - and to quote a phrase from 2007 - it's so much easier if "we embrace the hate".
     
  8. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    These teams met earlier this season. The Patriots didn't manage a single sack of Eli.
     
  9. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    .

    I am still quite confident that Gronk will play. He came back in shortly after the injury occurred, and at the end of the game he was jumping up and down on the ankle.

    Seeing him getting off the plane, and walking during media day, gave me more optimism. I have had ankle sprains, and when I had them, I couldn't put any weight on them what-so-ever.

    As far as Gronk not practicing, why risk tweaking the ankle. All year the Patriots have been running this offense, Gronk knows what he needs to do.

    As far as Welker and Cruz go, on NFL network, they did a comparison, and Warner and Irvin actually said that they thought Welker would have a bigger game in the Super Bowl.
     
  10. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Great post Ken (as always) :)

    Couple comments about points in the middle of the line-up.

    4. I'm a little worried that Gronk will be limited....... I'm increasingly thinking that they are putting him out there for show purposes (without the boot, walking without the limp, ect...)....... Mostly because it forces the Giants to prepare for a game with him in there.

    If he can't go..... or is severely limited? It will suck, but I do not think that we'll be all doom and gloom, game over....... I actually think that we can turn it to our advantage. Nobody has stopped Gronk all year, so this very versatile and diverse offense not had to look far beyond Gronk and the schemes that we've played with him all year long........ Guess what? That's all that is really all that is on film for this offense.

    I think we have the personnel to come out in 2-3 WR traditional packages that we've not run much of that will be something that the Giants have not properly game planed for. The potential exists that we could show up with a day 1 offense out there that people have not really seen much off this year. It may catch the Giants off guard because they've had to focus on our "Gronk" offense. Not as good and having a 100% Gronk out there, but certainly could be advantages if it comes to that

    5. Can't disagree with that at all. Particularly if Gronk is limited or out.

    6. If Gronk is limited (and by now the staff know roughly how effective he's gonna be), then Ocho takes the field and probably has a big day. He's not a dumb receiver..... You know they've had enough time to design a few plays where he runs specific routes (not cycling through route trees). If the staff know Gronk will be limited, then we'll have more 3 WR packages out there and Ocho will be part of them. Our coaches aren't dumb enough to not have prepared for those contingencies given the Gronk situation. Again...... not a lot of tape out there on the traditional things this offense may be able to do out of those sets.

    Ocho is not on the field because he's "all washed up". He's not on the field because he is our 5 receiving option and this year, with the unstoppability of 3 of the options in front of him, we've not even remotely needed him to step in and contribute. Doesn't mean he can't though.
     
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ken, you have no idea how your posts are helping me through this week. A voice of sanity through it all.

    I'm very concerned about that secondary of ours. Very concerned. It's like a third nipple at the beach. It just has to be covered up.

    That being said, the New England OL can STEAMROLL that NYG defense on the ground. Very little in the media about this angle, but I firmly see the possibility of a true bludgeoning of the light racehorses by our running game. Compound that with the fact that this game is indoors and keeping their D on the field longer, under the hot light lights, in that field house could really wear them down by the 4th quarter. I hope the Pats coaches look at this as a time of possession game. I'd love to see it somewhwere around 36-24 or better in TOP. Their rushing attack is piffle. Keep their D on the field, keep their WR's (and our secondary) off it - - we would have a puncher's chance.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  12. RelocatedPatFan

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    and they've been 10-0 since that game (and by coincidence, letting Albert Haynesworth go). Basically, this is 't the same defensive peersonnel they will be playing (unless we receive major injuries during the game).

    BB knows what he wants from the secondary and they've had a few games to put it into effect. the players are responding and Wilfork has been playing out of his mind. And it may not matter if they get sack if they are always there getting hits or pressures. But, they will get sacks,
     
  13. Deus Irae

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    When you've played another team and failed to get their QB, it shouldn't be a surprise if people don't write "How will team A stop team B from getting to the QB" unless some hugely important player was missing. They've already done it once. In this case, the Patriots weren't missing anyone of significance to the pass rush. McColby's case isn't getting media attention at least in part because it's not worthy of such attention since it's a question that's already been answered.
     
  14. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree with your overall point, but sacks aren't really the measurement against Goober Jr. The key is to keep him in the pocket and focus on turnovers. He has a fatal flaw in that he hates to take sacks and hates to give up on a play by throwing the ball away. This combination makes him a turnover bomb waiting to explode. The 49ers had chances for multiple easy picks but also had Manning dance around in the pocket right into big hits. There was one sack by Aldon Smith where he had a clean shot from behind but didn't make an attempt to strip out the ball. The Pats obviously have to take better advantage of these opportunities when they are able to compress the pocket.

    Interesting that if we didn't "know" that he has a high ankle sprain, the visual evidence would seem to indicate he has something far less severe. A high ankle sprain would seem to require support for any weigh-bearing activity for longer than a week. What do the Pats have to gain by not having a brace/boot when he is walking around? Trying to deceive the Giants and risk Gronk taking a bad step on a podium at media day? Makes no sense.

    The only reason that is even close to reasonable is that a brace/boot would hinder Gronk's ability to get ready for Sunday. That says to me that he has moved from recovery and into strengthening. I agree with supafly that it is more important for Gronk to get his ankle right than to participate in a full-speed practice. He has literally had over a thousand reps this season in just about every set the Pats use. I don't think this gameplan will throw anything new at Gronk, expect likely take him off his ST responsibilities.

    Good call. As long as the Pats stay close on the scoreboard, I anticipate them using the heavy set to get the Giants to counter that with players they otherwise would rather have on the sidelines. The Giants love their DEs and safeties instead of traditional LBs and DTs. Making them go more traditional to defend the run will make it much easier for Brady to play-action and find his first reads.

    Regardless of Gronk's status, the Giants will almost certainly have their CBs on an island outside the numbers. If they press up or get caught cheating, there will likely be only a single high safety defending anything deep. Not sure about 3 deep routes or Ocho necessarily being the target, but if the Pats can catch the Giants sleeping they could take advantage for a big play...in a game that otherwise looks to be all about preventing big plays.

    The key to the game. Forget about Brady...this is a redemption game for Mankins. If Mankins/Connolly/Waters can handle the interior rush schemes and allow Brady to step up into throwing lanes, he will destroy the Giants regardless of who he is throwing to. If the pocket is cluttered in front of Brady...well I hope the defense and STs are ready to win the game.
     
  15. oldskool138

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    The dude played 96% of the offensive snaps this year. If anyone doesn't need to practice, it's him.
     
  16. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    People proclaim how the Giants are a different team right now, how their poor defensive stats are a reflection of when they were playing bad. Also, they are a different team than their 9-7 record indicates because they had one bad stretch where they lost 6 games in a row.

    The same could be said for the Patriots. Back in week 9, the Patriots didn't have much of a pass rush. Since then, weeks 10-16, they have 25 of their 40 sacks on the season.
     
  17. ivanvamp

    ivanvamp In the Starting Line-Up

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    And 19 sacks in their last 5 game. They are definitely getting to the QB at a much higher rate than they were earlier in the year.
     
  18. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    the closer this game gets the more confident I get with the Pats. say what you will but BB's composure and good natured interviews feeds my confidence.

    In short because I'm heading off to work. They will utilize their running game with Vollmer and Solder playing the right side. They will continue to do this until the giants change up into a favorable match up and then the Patriots will go no huddle and exploit the match ups. They will continue this the whole game until the Giants are tired of tackling and then start extending there passing game to intermediate with some occasional deep throws.

    The defense will do enough to win. Will elaborate later. I will just say I think the Pats will apply pressure as they have the last few games. I think this defense has really started to figure things out and just about the right time. The thing the media discounts throughout the whole season is the points allowed. Pats have done it all season and have improved in other facets of the defense.
     
  19. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    9 of those sacks came in the 2 games against Miami and Denver. It's not as if they were crushing everyone. They've also lost Carter.

    Look, I'm not saying that the Patriots can't get to Eli. I'm saying that they didn't in the first meeting, so the media's not going to act as if the Patriots rush is a formidable problem facing the Giants, no matter how offended a bunch of homers on a message board get as a result.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Ah!!!! Where would we be without the nabob of negativity. Thank you for participating and conveniently forgetting to mention the 7 QB hits and 10 QB hurries. I'm sure they had no impact on the fact the Giants were shut out in the first half and didn't really put on any serious scoring drives until and injured James Iheadabu and Sergio Brown were "patrolling" the Pats secondary and Gary Guyton was adding to the many reasons why he didn't see the field for most of the rest of the season. Plus career special teamer Tracy White was forced into action. AND STILL only managed 250 passing yds for the game. But I guess the only real important stat was that the Pats didn't sack Manning :rolleyes:

    BTW-you completely ignore that despite all that "massive" pressure the Giants put on Brady, he overcame 4 TO's and put up over 340 passing yds, against that "impenetrable" Giants defense.

    If you hurry you can still catch some of the 4 hour Giants commercial, also known as Mike and Mike in the Morning on ESPN. I'm sure after listening for a few minutes you'll feel right at home.

    Seriously DI, if you are going to play the negative role, you shouldn't bring a rock to a gun fight. I could have produced a better argument for your position than you did. Cmon Man its the superbowl. I expect your best ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
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