Idle thoughts.....and now we get....

[gottaluv69in]

Since we're talking about schedules here does anyone know who has the toughest schedule to this point, or where i could find those stats? It seems like the pats have one of the toughest this year and are sitting on top of the NFL at 9-2. i think we should all be very with where we are considering our schedule and how many new key people we have on our team. BB is definately the best ever to do what he has done with this team with all the new talent and also having key contributors going on ir early in the year

 

[SVN]

if mayo and TBC just tackled better yesterday in 1 or 2 drives, the lions wouldve gotten off the field on 3rd down.sometimes its as simple as that

 

[patfanken]

I think idle thoughts are a little like idle hands...:ugh: That you can scatter so many and emoticons in a critique of a 9-2 : team in obvious transition is indicative of the :bricks: mentality that permeates this place lately where everyone including even those who once coached in HS think they're entitled to witness undefeated dominance in all three phases of the game week in and week with no regard for all the adversity THIS particular team is being asked to overcome on the fly...:ugh:

Rant over. :eat1:

Its not dominance I'm looking for in the defense...I'd settle for mediocrity on 3rd down right now.

Stats guys. What is the percentage of 3rd down success for the 16th best defense. I'd take THAT percentage right now. Why shouldn't I expect it at this point in the season. These young players have been on the field now for over 4 full months. They have seen thousands of Reps. WHY CAN'T I expect....mediocrity....at least!

Hey I agree that BB is building a defense that will be in the top 10 within 2 years. I understand the limitations. I appreciate our record. BUT we are playing 3 teams in the next 3 weeks who have lost only 8 games between them. Being 32nd in 3rd down efficiency IS NOT going to help us win those games.

No, Mo. My goal isn't to see "dominance", my goal is to see us get to #17 in 3rd down efficiency by the end of the regular season. I think we can make a run in the playoffs IF we can reach that level.

 

[nabwong]

I think you mean to say two linemen, because we've never rushed just 2 except for hail mary situations.

From what i remember, i thought i saw 2 rushers and then the 3rd DL was sort of a hybrid zone/spy while still maintaining a block. I might be wrong. I think it was in the 3rd or 4th quarter for about 2-3 plays.

 

[Patspsycho]

From what i remember, i thought i saw 2 rushers and then the 3rd DL was sort of a hybrid zone/spy while still maintaining a block. I might be wrong. I think it was in the 3rd or 4th quarter for about 2-3 plays.

Linemen do not spy. They also do not play zone because they don't drop back "into coverage."

 

[Rob0729]

First, I don't know if this is neccessarily the "meat of the season". Yes, both the Jets and Packers may be two of the best teams the Pats will face this season if not the best, but I think the true "meat of the season" has already passed where the Pats had to play Baltimore, at San Deigo, at Pittsburgh, and Indy in a span of six weeks. The next three games are definitely tough, but Belichick typically does well against NFC teams and I think like most years the top NFC teams aren't as good as the top AFC teams. The Packers have been impressive as of late, but they did lose to the Dolphins a month ago.

Second, I think the most underrated thing about the Jets is that they haven't proven they can beat any good teams other than the Pats in week 2. They did beat the Dolphins who might be average and the same with the Texans. But the only other playoff contenders they faced, they lost both games and failed to score a TD in either game. The Patriots aren't even the same team they were week 2 and I question if the Jets the Jets can keep up with them considering how they struggled against bad and average teams in recent months. We will see next Monday night.

 

[aluminum seats]

First, I don't know if this is neccessarily the "meat of the season". Yes, both the Jets and Packers may be two of the best teams the Pats will face this season if not the best, but I think the true "meat of the season" has already passed where the Pats had to play Baltimore, at San Deigo, at Pittsburgh, and Indy in a span of six weeks. The next three games are definitely tough, but Belichick typically does well against NFC teams and I think like most years the top NFC teams aren't as good as the top AFC teams. The Packers have been impressive as of late, but they did lose to the Dolphins a month ago.

Second, I think the most underrated thing about the Jets is that they haven't proven they can beat any good teams other than the Pats in week 2. They did beat the Dolphins who might be average and the same with the Texans. But the only other playoff contenders they faced, they lost both games and failed to score a TD in either game. The Patriots aren't even the same team they were week 2 and I question if the Jets the Jets can keep up with them considering how they struggled against bad and average teams in recent months. We will see next Monday night.

Yeah, even against that comic "football team" the Bengals the Jets played yesterday, their offense only scored one touchdown on a "drive" more than 10yards, and that was two plays: a 16-yard pass followed by a 53-yard run. It all counts, but you do wonder how Sanchez will fare having to grind out long drives in a hostile environment. Looks like Tomlinson's fading a bit too.

Just wish we didn't have to wait 80 days or whatever it is for this game.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

I will agree that this defense is frustrating as hell, but you have to admit, in the last few weeks, they have turned in the "plays" that the game has turned on. In the colts game, it was Sanders Int. right at the end that really sealed the game.

With Detroit, it was DMac's Int. in the 3rd that really changed the texture of that game.

So no matter how we all feel watching them week in and week out, in pro-ball, games are often defined by 1-2 plays each week, and say what you will, this D does have a knack for turning in those type of plays.

That doesn't make em good, but when you have an Offense that is scoring 30 ppg, it might just be enough.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Linemen do not spy. They also do not play zone because they don't drop back "into coverage."

Never say never. DL occassionally drop back into zone in a zone blitz scheme to confuse the QB about where the coverage and pressure is coming for. When you play zone with four DL and have two smallish ends or have linebackers lined up as DL, this can definitely happen. BB is known for his exotic formations and post snap defensive shifts used to do exactly that, confuse QBs.

3. OK let me get my rant over with. It wasn't too long into the first half of the Detroit game when I started thinking, "so exactly WHEN is this "young, talented", though inexperienced defense, going to start to GET FREAKIN' BETTER!!!!!!"

This defense is tangibly better than the 09 defense for the following reasons:
1. It is a much faster and more athletic defense. When they get beat it's usually because of mental mistakes or missed coverages rather than a physical inability to defend.
2. The 09 defense produced better stats but not better results. They could NOT shut down anybody in the 4th quarter and BB could not trust them with leads. Witness the infamous 4th and 2 decision that was necessitated by that 'meltdown' Defense. On the other hand the 2010 defense inspired a lot more trust when they shut down the Ravens in the 4th Q and OT to set up the tough win for the Pats.
3. This defense still has upside and produces TOs. The younguns are coming on and we're starting 4 rookies on defense - cunningham, mccourty, spikes, and arrington. They can look lights out at times and bad at other times but the Upside is definitely there. This D has yet to play its best game, but in the meantime they are producing TURNOVERS which have really made a difference this year. Do we beat the Colts without generating 3 picks no, but we did. Could the Lions game have taken a turn for the worse if McCourty hadn't had 2 big picks in the 2nd half, it's definitely possible, but he did do it when it counted. Taking a ball away from Calvin Johnson who some here say is the best WR in the NFL (I don't think he's there yet but he's close).
4. A side effect of all the youth on defense is that you don't see them 'gassed' in the 4th Q and the late part of games like they would get in 09. Rarely do you hear comments anymore like - they looked gassed out there, they just couldn't stop anyone anymore. And I found myself thinking that a lot in previous years in late game situations. Either our rotations are much better or the youth factor has been a big help in the energy factor of the defense in the closing periods of football games.

In short, throw the stats out the window because they're just going to look terrible. But this defense CAN get the job done in the crunch and that has spelled the difference this season. It ain't pretty, and sometimes it's just ugly, but the defense does enoug to help the offense win football games. Considering that 4/11ths of the defense is 'learning on the job', getting to 9-2 during that time frame is pretty amazing. And 7 games to go so we could see marked improvements by the youngsters within the next 2 months.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The defense had been improving until the last couple weeks. I thought they looked great in the Minnesota and Pittsburgh games, that was really how I expect the defense to look on a consistent basis once they gain the experience. Minnesota we gave up yards but really buckled down in the red zone and against the Steelers we were straight dominant IMO until garbage time. Unfortunately, the last 2 weeks we've been terrible in the red zone. Against Manning it's forgivable but against Detroit that was a little concerning. Definitely need to improve in that area going into the stretch run. Overall they have managed to hang on but come January it's a different game. As great as Brady is, the defense will have to step up. 24 ppg will not get it done, I have faith they won't be giving that up by then.

Good post as usual but I have to disagree about the refs from yesterday. I thought the Lions were favored in that area. Our OL had 3 major infractions that either killed drives or could have killed drives while their OL didn't get a single costly infraction (just 1 face mask that was declined anyways). IMO when it is 3 to 0 that is pretty favorable to one side, when it looked to me that Detroit wasn't that much more 'disciplined' than us with their blocking - I saw a couple blatant holds on TBC that were ignored. Also I saw Tate clearly interfered with on a screen attempt and no call. And what was up with them continually adding seconds to the clock after every play right before halftime? It allowed just enough time for the big pass and FG. Then they ignored a horse collar on Brady. The only iffy call going in our favor was the offensive PI and that looked like a correct call. Still didn't make up for everything in Detroit's favor.

 

[Joker]

I finally get it!!!!

everything is REAL REAL BAD!!!! This is a really terrible time to be a poor Patriot fan...this team is real bad!!!! the defense is bad bad bad, it scares me every game....how are these other teams scoring on us and getting first downs?????? This is REALLY REALLY BAD AND I'M SCARED TO DEATH!!!!!

Rookies are not to supposed to make any mistakes and season ending injuries to veterans are not supposed to be covered up...WE SHOULD BE BAD!!! OH WAIT....I JUST READ IT...We ARE BAD....REAL REAL BAD!!!!

I just KNEW we were real bad too....KNEW IT!!! Remember when they traded Moss and all of us went into catatonic state from fright??}?? And then all the threads on how the Pats will never be able to pass downfield and then all those threads in the following weeks that said "SEE!!!!!! THAT PROVES IT!!!!! after the Cleveland game and the hundreds and hundreds of subsequent "offense BAD!!!!!", "defense REAL bad!!!","special teams bad!!!!" "Green Ellis the worst!!!!", "Welker will never get open again!!!!@!!!!", "Detroit a REAL BAD PROBLEM FOR BRADY..HE'S BEEN BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"...

I'm telling you, I'm scared out of my mind right now....I hate this 9-2 record because it's a BAD 9-2 record...I wish it was a real good 9-2 record like all the rest of the Patriots Expert Committee insist is the only way to look at this team this season...but CLEARLY it is not and this is a REAL BAD SEASON...and as soon as the sky falls and BAD things happen 100% of the time like every knows it should THEN the rest of these idiot Patriot fans will see how stupid they are for thinking the Pats were even close to an average team and found pleasure in this obviously BOGUS and REAL BAD 9-2 record.....I just want to know so i can crawl under my chicken coop....when does all this stuff happen for real??????

I'M TERRIFIED

 

[SeymourTrophies]

I think that the difference between this year's defense and last year's is not that they are consistently better, but they seem to get a lot more takeaways. Even when they suck horribly, they can still win games for us (devin mccourty). In the past, we would just hope that they would hold on long enough to let the offense get going.

 

[Fencer]

Linemen do not spy. They also do not play zone because they don't drop back "into coverage."

Sometime NT Mike Vrabel says Hi.

 

[mgcolby]

Linemen do not spy. They also do not play zone because they don't drop back "into coverage."

Do you mean our D-Linemen? Or DL in general?

Because that is the basis of the firezone blitz and Pitt runs it often. I think Lebeua actually invented it, but I could be wrong.

 

[Patspsycho]

Never say never. DL occassionally drop back into zone in a zone blitz scheme to confuse the QB about where the coverage and pressure is coming for. When you play zone with four DL and have two smallish ends or have linebackers lined up as DL, this can definitely happen. BB is known for his exotic formations and post snap defensive shifts used to do exactly that, confuse QBs.

Yes it's theoretically possible, but in our system, that possibility is very remote because we are a 2 gap 3-4 and BB likes our men up front to be big and heavy. On the other hand, in the Colts scheme this is possible because their DE's are light and very fast. As for our DL: who would they chase in coverage? Could you imagine Wilfork or Brace thundering after a fleetfoot TE or receiver?

 

[Patspsycho]

Sometime NT Mike Vrabel says Hi.

Do you mean our D-Linemen? Or DL in general?

Because that is the basis of the firezone blitz and Pitt runs it often. I think Lebeua actually invented it, but I could be wrong.

I meant defensive linemen.

Just because a player lines up at the line of scrimmage doesn't make them a lineman, a.k.a. Vrabel, or more recently, Arrington.

Also the firezone blitz is rushing 5 men out of a 33 coverage. While in a 4-3 scheme you would have a lighter DE drop off to cover the curl/flat, in the Pitts scheme, a 3-4, I think an extra linebacker does this if I'm not wrong.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Statistically, the defense has been much worse than last year's, and they play like it a lot of times no doubt.

But there are stretches of dominance too, and streaks where the defense clearly has it all figured out. The first 3 quarters against the Steelers and Colts were impressive, as was shutting out the Ravens late in the 4th quarter and throughout several OT possessions, finding a way to win.

They were awful in the first half against Detroit, but rebounded to hold them to 7 points throughout the second half. They're faster and they're making big plays that they didn't/couldn't last year, and if they can figure out how to do it over 4 quarters, they have a chance to be a dominant defense.

But they're young, they'll struggle some more, there will be lots of head-scratching and cursing and swearing. But I believe it will all be worth it.

 

[Seneschal2]

Hey I agree that BB is building a defense that will be in the top 10 within 2 years. I understand the limitations. I appreciate our record. BUT we are playing 3 teams in the next 3 weeks who have lost only 8 games between them. Being 32nd in 3rd down efficiency IS NOT going to help us win those games.

Ken,

Fact #1: There are many ways to win one game
Fact #2: This team is learning HOW to win

Remember when last season it was deemed the defense was in search of an identity? And notice how this season the D has been creating one? In addition, Reiss alluded to how the offense was also looking for an identity, primarily because of the inexperience of the rookie TEs and Tate, the healing process of Welker, and the all important loss of Faulk. An in-sync offense this was not. Well, inconsistency on both sides of the ball is the price the fans pay while these identities are being created.

The offense is now taking shape -- especially because of new additions Woodhead and Branch. The evolution of the two TE gems is a pleasure to watch, as is the N/S running style of BJGE. They're not there YET -- but they are progressing... while-they-win.

The defense is not an enigma. There's obvious talent present, along with some obvious weaknesses. The still relatively inexperienced are being forced to execute Belichick's worthy gameplans. Not an easy task -- even for seasoned vets. But they are learning...and creating turnovers...which are two ways to win a game. For the remainder of the season, and beyond, I'd like to see the D adopt the BB philosophy as Bruschi did -- play them one-game-at-a-time.

Thanks for the good reads -- and worthy threads Ken. Much appreciated.

 

[nabwong]

Linemen do not spy. They also do not play zone because they don't drop back "into coverage."

Things can change. That's why it confused Hill. I think it was the RDE.

 

[Fencer]

I meant defensive linemen.

Just because a player lines up at the line of scrimmage doesn't make them a lineman, a.k.a. Vrabel, or more recently, Arrington.

Also the firezone blitz is rushing 5 men out of a 33 coverage. While in a 4-3 scheme you would have a lighter DE drop off to cover the curl/flat, in the Pitts scheme, a 3-4, I think an extra linebacker does this if I'm not wrong.

There are a few cases of no-argument DL guys dropping into coverage, I'm pretty sure. E.g., I seem to recall Seymour doing it, not necessarily effectively. But since I can't find any links to support that via googling, "few" is probably the operative word.

Zone blitzes aside, of course.