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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    .... felt that never had a 30 point beat down felt so bad. I know I had written just early that day that my "anxiety meter" was in the green, and rarely had I felt less angst for an upcoming game, but while watching that game itself, I found that while my "anxiety meter" never left the green, my IRRITATION INDEX was off the chart right from the start.

    1. It started during the pregame when the idiot announcers kept mentioning that the Pats weren't serious contenders for the superbowl because they lack a running attack.

    One would have thought that with all their resources that someone might have noticed that fully HALF the NFL had rushing attacks worse than the Pats INCLUDING the anointed GB Packers, and then they continued to ignore it while the Pats piled up close to 160 rushing yds over the course of the game, despite a horrible first half effort.

    2. Then the game started, although it looked like no one told the Pats. Romeo did an excellent job mixing and disguising his defenses. It worked beautifully for most of the first half, but in the end the Pats did an excellent job (for the most part) in adjusting to what was happening and moved the ball well in the second half.

    I didn't participate in the game day thread, but I imagine it was on fire during the first half. ;)

    3. Later as the game wore on and the end result was clear, the pervading media message kept coming. The Pats aren't to be taken seriously as championship contenders, they were exposed by the Steelers and Giants. They are a function of an easy schedule, and "the good teams" like the Ravens won't have a problem against the "worst defense in the league".

    4. I also hate that they all look so amazed by the statistical ineptitude of the Pats defense, given that BB is their coach. Again the Pats have RARELY been statistically dominant except in one area. Scoring D. Why do people keep forgetting that in 2 of the 3 superbowl years the Pats ranked in the mid 20's in total defense. (an area we should end up in by the final game) And that was in an era where they actually ALLOWED you to play some defense.

    5. The final irritation was at the end of the game when the Pats were just running the ball with a rookie who was seeing his first real action, and they bring up the "running it up" card because KC couldn't stop a simple toss sweep on 4th a goal from the 6.

    They completely ignored that KC brought it on themselves by using all 3 of their TOs during that drive. It was clear that the object of the drive for the Pats wasn't to score, but to eat up the clock and give Vereen some work. If they hadn't called the TOs or played some run D the Pats wouldn't have scored.

    It was SO FAR from "running it up" that it really irritated me that they made it such a big point. It was like they were creating discussion topics for the haters

    6. Finally all the damned injuries irritated me. Will it ever stop. The Light one particularly hurt. I know some of the media pukes blame BB. They are already proposing that he shouldn't have been in there, or that if BB hadn't passed the ball he wouldn't have gotten hurt. Just more ridiculous stuff adds to the IRRITATION INDEX.

    7. Game thoughts

    a. I think Volmer's back is affecting his play. He hasn't been nearly as consistent as in the past.

    b. Tamba Hali might be going to Hawaii in February , but Solder OWNED him constantly when he was playing TE. Nate is likely going to be playing LT the next few weeks and I don't have problem with that.

    c. I couldn't help thinking how whinny Jet fans are when I watched our #3 C come in an play pretty well. When our LT goes out, and our RT goes out, and the Pats keep plugging in guys and the beat goes on. Meanwhile in Jet land, when Mangold missed just 2 games, their OL went completely to pieces NICE

    d. D Johnson, the Chief's ILB is a beast.

    e. Should we be concerned that only 4 of the 15 completions last night went to WRs. I know Brady said in his WEEI interview that he missed getting the ball to open WRs all night.

    If you listen to that interview and his post game comments, It's pretty clear that Tom Brady didn't think too much of the performance of the Patriots QB on Monday.

    f. You know me. I am the the LAST guy who shoves a player under the bus. I am usually the defender of the down trodden, but I wish someone would explain to me the value of Gary Guyton It seems that he's the guy who winds up NEXT to the guys who actually MAKE the tackle. Its almost like his only job is to be there help guys up off the pile.

    I long for the return of Dan Fletcher, and would rather see Tarpanian get reps than to see the same old Gary Guyton out there, The Pats have gotten good value from this UDFA on special teams an sub packages. But he's never progressed past his initial potential. He just doesn't have the football instincts that would make his speed a factor. Its time to move on from Gary Guyton.

    g. I think when Julian Edelman gets some real time as a WR, he's going to be a very productive receiver. Maybe not an all pro, but a guy who is going to catch a lot of balls. His quickness and speed were evident in that punt return...and its not the first time.

    h. Well at least we finally got a chance to see why we drafted Vereen. He definitely has that "burst" and suddenness we hoped for when he was drafted. Now that we've seen a little from both he and Ridley, I think we can be very hopefully about the next generation of Patriot RBs

    i. I saw that Marcus Cannon got some snaps at RT. Nice. I would appreciate it if anyone who records and breaks down the game, can tell me how he looked.

    ON the EAGLE GAME:

    a. Briefly this should be a real test. Despite their woes the Eagles truly ARE one of the more talented teams in the league and will be a dangerous and desperate team. The "anxiety meter" is already in the red, and when the first injury report comes out tomorrow its only going to get worse. :rolleyes:
  2. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog Rookie

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    Not that I go over the forums with a fine-tooth comb, but I've been waiting nearly a full day for someone else to mention this; Haley deserved his time in the no-no chair :D for that nonsense.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  3. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm with you ken, Gary Guyton has no place on an NFL roster. His weaknesses outweigh his strengths by some distance.
  4. lurker1965

    lurker1965 Rookie

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    Unless that person (or persons - I'm trying to be general) complained about the Saints running up the score on the Colts...

    Note: It is impossible to run up the score on professionals, but announcers and analysts can be morons.
  5. robbomango

    robbomango Rookie

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    NO 62-7 over the colts, sean peyton's a class act we're scum.:rolleyes:
  6. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Regarding the center position anyone who watched the Phins rout the now hapless Bills Sunday saw a terrible backup center who made every shotgun snap an adventure. Fitz had to take his eyes completely off the field to catch the snaps almost always low and to his left. Cost missed passes and maybe a pick or so with the distraction. What a contrast in depth and preparation by a backup.
  7. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Two thoughts...you let media blather get under your skin way to easily - they have 3.5 hours to fill - and it's as if you were listening to an alternate feed because Gruden was pretty much ballwashing Bill and Tom once the jig was up on fellating the plucky little unknown QB who doesn't stick anywhere for long for a reason... Turn off the sound, watch the game and try and maintain perspective. The other guys get paid too, and we are the big test on most schedules. Been that way for a long time now...
  8. AzPatsFan

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    All this talk about the Patriots Defense which has been riddled with injuries overlooks the fact that the Packers are not much better. :eek:

    We could see the Superbowl repesentatives having the #1 and #2 Offenses; and the 31st and 32nd Defenses... :eek:

    Belichick has always emphasized scoring and Points Against as the only genuine measure of a Defense. His Defenses don't gamble, and try to prevent the big play and quick score. Judging by his record, it works. Meanwhile Blitz-happy Wrecks is 5-5. :bricks:
  9. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Don't worry. He was only out there because both Tarp and Fletch were out. When Tarp returns next week, you will see Guyton back on the bench.

    His only value is that he knows the system pretty well and as an ILB in our system that is not easy.

    I guarantee you, he will not be with the team next season.
  10. pherein

    pherein Rookie

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    You might be a little hung up on this. We pulled our starters in the late 3rd and 4th quarter, so no one can really make a case that we tried to run up the score.
    So we are not a legitimate candidate for comparison. There were a couple sites and the washington post that brought it up.
    I believe NE kept their starters in for the full games.
    Im not sure of any fans that are bothered by NE continuing to play and score.
    We pulled starters when we played you at the dome also. I really doubt BB would have done the same, but we fully understand why BB does this. He pays them to play, and they are payed very well.
    If NE runs up the score on the Saints we would not see it as the Patriots rubbing it in. We would see it at our inability to stop you , and we deserve it.
  11. grandpajim

    grandpajim Rookie

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    Ken, as many have said, thank you for the hard work on your outstanding posts. I regularly start reading this site by scanning for the "idle thoughts".

    My wife is a wonderful, loving woman. I can't believe she hasn't complained once about my watching games with my left thumb on the TV mute button and my right hand holding the radio volume in an attempt to minimize the frustration over the announcers. Durning the Jets game I regularly wondered if anyone told the TV announcers and camera folks that there was actually TWO teams on the field.

    I'm glad TB commented on "missed open receivers" its obvious he's zoned in on Gronk & Welker thus making the Pats easier to defend. I've always felt TB beats himself up after his "terrible games". Super competitive, Part of what makes him great.

    Having such success plugging in o-linemen makes me so thankful that after all the coaches we've lost over Belicheck's tenure, we still have Scar.

    The Iggles are the Chargers of the East.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In the first quarter shared some of your anxiety... but as time went on scoring is the xanax of football.

    Agree with Guyton comments, he is what he is, an UDFA who is not progressing.. suspect that his tenure will be short lived, but a really nice kid though and a good Patriots story..

    What I walked away with was the depth of this team, from Edelman playing CB to Cannon replacing Matt Light.. this is what we are all about, guys have gone down at an alarming rate and somehow this team moves on... Koppen to Connolly to Wendell, sure there are some missed beats, but it is no obvious to this viewer..

    Remember what happened to the Jets when Mangold went down???
  13. RayClay

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    We should be anxious, because there's a real let down possibility with the tough losses and the big emotional win and playoff catbird seat secured. It's a boring little schedule, easy to fall into a stupor.

    This was a flat as hell start, but it's encouraging that they got it in gear eventually. Props to our D Line for grinding it out and looking like they cared when the rest of the team didn't. it's a game of emotion and a hell of a challenge for B to get everyone up for each game.

    The upside, of course, is we need to develop a number of different parts this year and we (mostly) have the talent, if we keep focused. The RBs, The non Gronk passing game, the exciting D line and pass rush, getting Spikes back, and the scary, but somewhat promising secondary with a lot riding on decent looking FAs Moore and Adams.

    It's really all about peaking at the right time and if they keep having fun and working guys in, they could be strongest when it counts. Better to start flat then come on with a roar than to stay in the fog. Each game is individual, they aren't going to be Jets type motivated for a string of nameless games. A win is a win.
  14. RayClay

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    This is the pats strength and where people just don't "get it". Having some high draft choice as backup, who's disgruntled, half way interested, thinking he should start is wirth nothing. He'll lose his edge over time.

    A great backup is great because he's happy to contribute, learn and make the most of his talent to do a job when necessary. Wendell would probably grind down over time and will never be all pro, but he can step in and perform the job. Connolly has developed over the years of message board abuse, into a decent starter when necessary, an excellent backup when not.

    The next most talented player is often a terrible backup who only feels he should be starting. A JAG who knows his job is to be ready to play multiple positions and work his ass off to improve that ability is what great teams develop, and at a good price.

    A lot of my touchstones are Celtic dynasty ones and i always noticed a guy like Eric Fernsten, a skinny big forward. He would never, ever start on a team due to physical limitations, but when he went in for 5 minutes, he'd get one hoop, one rebound and make one good defensive play. Meanwhile, Mr. high dollar backup takes 5 minutes just to warm up, maybe screwing up a crucial play. Do your job. Props to Mr. Wendell and Connolly.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  15. Kenneth Sims

    Kenneth Sims Rookie

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  16. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    I have no problem with this or ever, even if it's against the Pats. Heck, teams used to do it to us all the time in the late 80s and early 90s. In any professional sport, I always felt that if a team needed to get pasted 'cause they can't keep up, then too bad. I hope NE hangs 100 on Indy when we play them just because we can.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  17. Sicilian

    Sicilian On the Roster

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    I think people are a little too hard on Guyton sometimes. He was an undrafted free agent, and seems to be able to plug in anywhere among the linebackers. He may not play great, but we've got THREE guys ahead of him out right now. BB is great at putting players in position to succeed, and when one or two of Spikes/Fletcher/Tarp come back, Guyton can go back to spot duty in long passing situations, where his speed is actually an asset.

    It's true he may not be on the team next year, but he has value in the right role. People are talking like he should be bagging groceries and I just don't see it.
  18. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

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    They praised Bill for always having good points against regardless of yards, they also praised him for always playing until the clock hit zero. Stop reaching for things to complain about and imaginary 'haters', we are getting more respect now then we have since September, wrong week to make these comments.
  19. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    No Mo, I get it. Until we get some wins in the playoffs the 2 one and done's the last 2 seasons are going to continue to be media fodder,

    But don't you think by now professionals who follow the league as a living should understand that each season is a completely different and independent entity, Its like a coin flip. You might get heads 10 times in a row, but the next flip is STILL 50-50. What the Ravens did to the Pats 2 years ago has NO relevance to EITHER team. Hell I'd bet that both teams have turned over 40% of their rosters since 2009. Why then would anyone ASSUME that what happened in the past is going to happen in the future.

    I think it was when they completely ignored the facts about the relative success of the Pats running game set me off. And as for Gruden's ball washing.....he ball washes EVERYONE.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  20. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    The Pats aren't significantly different than a bunch of the other top contenders like GB, Pitt, Balt, NO, Det. In fact, the Pats, Pack and Steelers have exactly the same number of attempts with the Pats having the best results. Even ignoring stats and using the eye test, only Houston, SF and Oakland have had a consistent running game that is the basis for their offense. "Analysts" find it easier to repeat conventional thinking rather than use their brains. Watching games and parsing stats takes too much time.

    Despite playing horribly for significant parts of those games, the Pats were in legitimate position to win both. Still amazed that the Steeler game was close late, but it was. The Steelers played close to a perfect game (no turnovers, no punts), scoring on every drive except end of half and a late missed FG (their only mistake). Despite that effort and being at home, the Pats got within 6 points with 3:30 left and 3 timeouts. If I'm the Steelers, I'm not confident I can replicate that effort in the playoffs and I'm wondering if anything less results in a loss.

    "Analysts" use stats without context when it suits them and dismiss stats when it doesn't. NE is the worst defense in the league (look at the stats) and GB's defense is good enough to win a title (don't worry about the stats). Andre Carter isn't the weapon that Clay Matthews is (don't care what the stats say) and guys like Woodley and Babin are dominating this year (have you seen their stats?).

    Dilfer had to work overtime to convince the audience (and likely himself) that the Pats still aren't able to deliver QB pressure when needed. This despite never blitzing like Pittsburgh (same number of sacks) or GB (1 more sack). if you watch the games you would see that the Pats are getting reasonable, low-risk pressure which has allowed their defense to look better recently despite having a defensive backfield filled with "plan B" types (note that the top 5 DBs on the Pats DB depth chart exiting camp didn't play last week).

    I think Belichick is reasonably comfortable with the team makeup pending any new long-term injuries. If nobody else goes on IR and the Pats enter the playoffs pretty much healthy (including Brady, Vollmer and Hernandez getting over their nagging situations), I think Belichick will go to battle very confident.

    As for Light, IIRC he was injured on a WR screen blocking downfield. Since that was a glorified running play, not sure why passing had any impact on the injury. If that had been a pitch wide, could we be guaranteed that Light would have magically escaped injury? If you continually run dive plays against stacked fronts, is that more healthy for OL ankles? Do you start taking a knee midway through the 4th quarter? Agree with you that the injury talk is kind of silly.

    Hard to argue that. On the Hali sack, Vollmer was 1-on-1 and almost whiffed on an inside move. I know that seems like an exaggeration but you can see it on the nfl.com highlights. Backpedaled, lunged and barely touched Hali. Vollmer needs to sit until he is 100%.

    I've already asked for penance for dissing the Solder pick. But I actually love how the Pats are using him now. So much so that I am all for bringing Light back next year if he is willing and able.

    Yes and no. The Pats are dictating matchups with the TEs, Welker and RBs that make them solid initial reads. That being said, Brady needs to throw outside (even airmailing it if they aren't open) just to keep defenses (particularly safeties) from collapsing inside. I expect to see more formations designed to isolate Branch and Ocho in favorable 1-on-1 matchups with weaker DBs.

    Even beyond his elbow, something wasn't right with Brady. I think he was under the weather. Absolutely no energy and he had that distant stare and speech pattern that screamed "Man that Nyquil is strong!". Haven't heard this mentioned but Brady was acting weird with a cup just before kickoff. Almost like he was repeatedly sniffing smelling salts or something. Unless he just doesn't like the smell of Gatorade, it just looked strange.

    He is down to being a warm body at LB. He doesn't make many plays but he doesn't fall down in coverage or run into teammates. Once the wounded LBs come back, he won't be on the field very often.

    If Vereen can run like that when the games are in doubt, he will be a weapon. He has superior hands, WR instincts running routes and plus strength to pass protect (likely needs more reps before he is trusted there). Gronk, Hernandez and Vereen as a package presents an impossible choice for defenses. LBs can't cover any of them but you need LBs on the field in case they move in tight and run the ball.

    Agree and that is why having a little buffer in the division is so big. This is the game to lose if the Pats have to lose one. However, if the defense can play reasonably well (24 pts or less) that should give them a ton of confidence moving forward. That would mean their killer 2 month stretch would end without giving up over 24 points (taking away the late Pitt safety). That is plenty good enough to win a title since they should be better/healthier entering the playoffs.
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