idle thoughts...a thread about football

[Fencer]

I don't know why, but I thought I'd start a thread where we could just talk football. I was just thinking about a good news bad news scenario and thought it just might be a good topic for discussion.

The Good news: Any way you parse it, given what we have on the roster right now. Without any FA considerations; the Pats should be a significantly BETTER football team than they were last season....for the following reasons.

1. The Pats have added a TON of new players over the last 2 drafts (not including 2011), and the hard reality IS, that it takes a few years for players coming into the NFL to reach their potential....its just THAT hard.

It is almost inconceivable that the Pats VERY young defense won't improve simply because SO many key players will be entering their 2nd-4th years. Guys like Brace, Spikes, Fletcher, Butler, Love, Deadrick,Tate, etc, etc SHOULD show us a great leap of productivity as they enter their 2nd and 3rd years of their careers

Then when you add the known contributions of vets like Boddin, TWarren, MStroud and MWright, The entire defense across the board SHOULD be better. A lot better.

I know this isn't a stretch since the bar from last season was set pretty low. But I think that it wouldn't take much improvement "as a team" to make a quantum leap in defensive stats. Not homerish, by which I mean that -- for example -- a large fraction of fans of rival teams would probably agree.

2. The offense on the other hand is in a much harder position to conclude that THEY will be better, simply because they were the top offense in the league for most of last year. It would be kind of ridiculous to expect Brady to have the kind of stats he put up last season, but the fact is, he doesn't have to. If he has only 90% of the year he had last season, he'd be among the top 3 QBs in the league. Not homerish.

That being said, when you look at the offense, its hard not to think it got better over the off season. Clearly the RB group got enormously upgraded. A jarring sentence. Homerish? Perhaps. Welker will be another year removed from his injury, and while his production was more than we should have expected, the 2010 Wes Welker was still a mere shadow of the player we've come to expect from his peak seasons. Tate, Edelman and Price should ALL benefit from another year "in the system". Even Branch should benefit from a full training camp in the offense. AND if you liked what we got from the TEs in 2010, just think of what they can be in their 2nd year. That doesn't sound too homerish to me, the emphatic ALL perhaps excepted.

Now comes the only issue of the offense and that's the OL. You can fairly question the wisdom of starting a rookie at LT. You can speculate on the futures of Light, Mankins, and Kazcur, so you can reasonably question the stability of the OL.....if you choose to. Here's what I think.

For next season at least, Mankins is GOING to be a Patriot, and having him there for a full training camp is going to be a big improvement to the OL. Dan Connolly has proven he can start in this league and be consistent in the best offense in the league. And lets assume a worst case scenario where Nate Solder is the starting LT on day one.

Well the worry worts will pull four of five plays out of UTube and declare he "functionally too weak" to start at this point. They will worry about him "playing too high" and soft.

I choose in this matter to defer to a Pats coaching staff who saw have probably seen EVERY single play Nate Solder had in college, not just 4-5 on UTube. I will defer to Dante, who "banged the table" for this guy. I won't worry about his "functional strength" because his Combine BP was essentially the same as Kazcur's and Light's, both of whom started as rookies. That level of detail keeps this mainly from being homerish ... Besides guys who live with their strength coaches, are HIGHLY likely to be a lot stronger by the time they move out. . BTW- there was a reason, Von Miller pointed out that Solder gave him the toughest time of any OT in their league

This is an OL that has JUST begun the transition that we've seen on the D. I love the talent we added this year (Solder and Cannon), and it bodes well for the future. BUT for us the future is NOW!, and while Solder has MY confidence, he's going to be a huge question mark until we actually see him on the field and Matt Light's future is decided ... since you didn't make the mistake of saying Solder = rookie Light = mature Light

Finally the Kicking game should also see an improvement with the return of Gotskowski, Metzko's 2nd season Oh, the spelling! and the emergence of Edelman and Tate as a quality KRs. Um, why should one assume they're still improving? Though the new KO return rules might mitigate the impact of ANY KRs this season.

Now I haven't spent much time on THIS year's draft picks. Only Solder, because of the need and his high draft position, and the RBs, by the nature of their position, should be expected to have significant impacts early on, but who knows

BOTTOM LINE: We as fans SHOULD have a reasonable expectation that the 2011 version of the Pats will be better than their 2010 version. And while this might not translate into more wins in the regular season, it SHOULD mean more wins in the playoffs

Here's the bad news: Everyone else is getting better too. I'm sure if I was a fan of most of the leagues teams, I would be able to perform this same exercise with my team. Bingo. And decidedly unhomerish.

2. FA scares the hell out of me. Unhomerish. There are just SOOOOOOOO many guys out there who can help any team, and not just the name brands. This FA class is SOOOOOO deep that there will be a lot of teams who will be significantly improved by the time its over.

So here is my caveat for fans while we wait for this CBA drama to play out. If you look at the Pats in a vacuum, it's VERY exciting. UNFORTUNATELY we don't play in a vacuum, we play in the NFL, and the way its set up, there is reason for a LOT of teams to be "very excited" Just keep that in mind as we set expectations. Unhomerish.

Overall, not too bad on the homerism scale.

 

[Fencer]

And a reminder to those who try to prove they know more about football than Ken:

Lots of people who post here like to wear NFL jerseys. But Ken's aren't -- or at least at one time weren't -- replicas.

 

[Triumph]

The Patriots NEEDED to draft a stud 3-4 DE and they passed on

Cameron Jordan
Corey Liuget
Adrian Clayborn
Phil Taylor
Muhammad Wilkerson
and Cam Heyward

The Jets o-line destroyed the likes of Gerard Warren and Brandon Deaderick in the playoff game, and I don't see how things will be different this season. Sure Ty Warren is coming back but he's been declining since his outstanding 2006 season and Marcus Stroud was so bad the BILLS cut him.

I think BB has something up his sleeve for FA. Either a DE or stud OLB that can put his hand on the ground if needed.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

And a reminder to those who try to prove they know more about football than Ken:

Lots of people who post here like to wear NFL jerseys. But Ken's aren't -- or at least at one time weren't -- replicas.

Ken's got a pretty good grasp of football and so does Marshall Faulk. Football knowledge and football analysis are two very different things, and there are several posters on this site who's analysis skills I trust more than Ken's (though Ken is near the top). There are certainly many gems that can be gleaned from Ken's posts, but for all the time he spends writing them, he often forms very stong opinions based on incomplete information. He also seems to have difficulty separating his emotions from his analysis. Playing football certainly provides a solid knowledgebase for analysing football, but the actual analysis is dependent on a wide variety of mental skills.

 

[signbabybrady]

It might not all have been accurate or correct in the long run, but at least it showed an ability to use your mind freely rather than serving as another of the team parrots.

Noting that it might not be accurate in the long run is not the same as saying it was wrong.

This might be true if it were the case but you used past tense so.

BB could make a million consecutive right moves, but that doesn't mean that number one million and one was automatically correct, and reacting against the team is not automatically knee jerk or wrong.

Yes but it also wouldn't make someone a homer if thought one million and one was right.

and I'm being attacked for daring to opine that Deaderick.......And don't kid yourself, because that's exactly what happened here. Your posts were clear examples of it.

I attacked you for using the homer crutch and the tone I thought you were using was condicending and to be honest I hope Deadrick can develope and I can see evidence BB thinks he might but I am not convinced his head is right. I like Pryor a little more but I think that is more because he has performed a specific role fairly well when healthy.

I think to often conversations on her end in your wrong because your a homer and that IMO is insulting because as I said I can be a homer and still be capable of independant thought. Just when push comes to shove I will give the team and BB the benifit of the doubt. Like post draft there is no way I can possibly criticize this team because track record is there but once we start to see the talent I sure will start my own opinions.

 

[Fencer]

Ken's got a pretty good grasp of football and so does Marshall Faulk. Football knowledge and football analysis are two very different things, and there are several posters on this site who's analysis skills I trust more than Ken's (though Ken is near the top). There are certainly many gems that can be gleaned from Ken's posts, but for all the time he spends writing them, he often forms very stong opinions based on incomplete information. He also seems to have difficulty separating his emotions from his analysis. Playing football certainly provides a solid knowledgebase for analysing football, but the actual analysis is dependent on a wide variety of mental skills.

Fair enough -- Ernie Adams vs. Ryan Leaf.

But I think Ken is far above the level at which it's OK to be blanketly dismissive of him. And if there's anybody here who's entitled to beat his chest and say "I'm a more objective and hence better analyst than Ken" -- well, it isn't anybody I've seen actually say something like that.

 

[Ring 6]

Fair enough -- Ernie Adams vs. Ryan Leaf.

But I think Ken is far above the level at which it's OK to be blanketly dismissive of him. And if there's anybody here who's entitled to beat his chest and say "I'm a more objective and hence better analyst than Ken" -- well, it isn't anybody I've seen actually say something like that.

The problem isnt with disagreeing with Ken. Hell NFL coaching staffs disagree with each other about what players should get drafted, make the team, or start. They have equivalent knowledge but different opinions.
The problem is when you have a Jackwagon who belittles the knowledge, insight, and even integrity of a poster by stating that his opinion is based upon 'being a homer' thereby saying he is not honest about what he sees, and says because he is secretly enforcing an agenda.
That is a bunch of crap.
It is hidden behind by calling in not 'objective' even copying in a definition, that says uninfluenced by personal opinion, which makes every post on this obard qualify as not objective.
As I have said before. It is easy to ferret out disingenuous by simply looking at whether the comments are direct at the opinion, or at the person giving the opinion. If you must trash the person giving the opinion to support your argument for your own opinion then you are admitting you cannot argue on merits and must resort to games.

 

[BlueThunder]

The problem is when you have a Jackwagon who belittles the knowledge, insight, and even integrity of a poster by stating that his opinion is based upon 'being a homer' thereby saying he is not honest about what he sees, and says because he is secretly enforcing an agenda.
That is a bunch of crap.

We don't have anyone on here like that...DO WE ?????

 

[NEGoldenAge]

But I think Ken is far above the level at which it's OK to be blanketly dismissive of him.

Agreed. 10char

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Deus is an insufferable POS.

 

[spacecrime]

Deus is an insufferable POS.

Deus Irae
This message is hidden because Deus Irae is on your ignore list.

Ignore works well on those posters whose goals in life are to be a contrarians.

What waste time listening to people like that?

Only problem with ignore (besides the fact that if someone quotes an ignored poster it is displayed) is that there is a mod who is emminently ignorable and you can't ignore mods. Well, you can. You just can't put them ON ignore