idle thoughts...a thread about football

[Observer]

Here we go again with all the quarreling... must be the summer heat or something...

I wish people would stop with the "BB knows best" argument; it really has reached the heights of absurdity around here.

Just by virtue of making our team players are now deemed as good or good enough. What I remember from last year is Vince Wilfork huffing and puffing all over the field to cover for our defensive ends. They really can't be that good is what that tells me.

 

[Sciz]

Here we go again with all the quarreling... must be the summer heat or something...

I wish people would stop with the "BB knows best" argument; it really has reached the heights of absurdity around here.

Just by virtue of making our team players are now deemed as good or good enough. What I remember from last year is Vince Wilfork huffing and puffing all over the field to cover for our defensive ends. They really can't be that good is what that tells me.

If BB doesn't know best, then who the hell does? It certainly isn't anybody on this forum.

 

[Observer]

If BB doesn't know best, then who the hell does? It certainly isn't anybody on this forum.

We should all go home.

 

[Observer]

I'm not going off of any deep end.

Forget it, DI; in case you haven't realized you are the Brandon Meriweather of patsfans.com. You cannot do no right.

 

[BlueThunder]

Maye if DI used IMHO more often , his opinions might be better recieved


I know,I know...everything posted here is just opinions

 

[italia44]

Here we go again with all the quarreling... must be the summer heat or something...

I wish people would stop with the "BB knows best" argument; it really has reached the heights of absurdity around here.

Just by virtue of making our team players are now deemed as good or good enough. What I remember from last year is Vince Wilfork huffing and puffing all over the field to cover for our defensive ends. They really can't be that good is what that tells me.

I'm guessing this was directed at me......What you need to get a handle on is that NE plays a 2-gap,read and react,stop-the-run,first defense.

It's based on Big,Mobile Linebackers.

It's not Pittsburgh or New Jersey,or San Diego and Baltimore.With Wilfork at NT,Def.ends need to be stout and keep the guards off of the LB's.

It's not pretty,in fact it's kind of boring...but,it is the Patriot Way ...........and I ,for one,still trust.

 

[Observer]

I'm guessing this was directed at me......What you need to get a handle on is that NE plays a 2-gap,read and react,stop-the-run,first defense.

It's based on Big,Mobile Linebackers.

It's not Pittsburgh or New Jersey,or San Diego and Baltimore.With Wilfork at NT,Def.ends need to be stout and keep the guards off of the LB's.

It's not pretty,in fact it's kind of boring...but,it is the Patriot Way ...........and I ,for one,still trust.

Wasn't directed at you at all actually; more to all the sparring prior to you. In any case, I don't understand what you are saying here either. NE plays a "2 gap, read and react, stop the run, first defense" so it is just as it should be when Wilfork is playing out of position? Sorry if I am not understanding something obvious.

Ah, I think I got it now... you are parodying the BB knows best argument!

 

[Observer]

Maye if DI used IMHO more often , his opinions might be better recieved


I know,I know...everything posted here is just opinions

I like your sig, by the way; it seems very apt.

 

[ay-yo]

So much for a thread about football

 

[MoLewisrocks]

The ballwashing on this site has gotten ridiculous, and it's killing football discussions.

People here ***** because they don't have football threads here, but why would anyone bother making a football thread if anything other than "BB's always right and ever Patriots player is awesome" is immediately attacked by people who didn't even bother to think about what was posted?

And don't kid yourself, because that's exactly what happened here. Your posts were clear examples of it.

I call BS. Actually I call it times 3...

Semantic debate and self absorbed hijacks are what is killing football discussion here. And don't kid yourself, your posts are among the clearest examples of that.

 

[Ring 6]

FWIW, Deaderick didn't see the field because of attrition. When he was getting solid minutes, even starting, Wright, Brace, Warren and Wilfork were all healthy.

He may very well be cut this year, but it will be because of his head, not his talent.

Attrition is Ty Warren out for the year, Gerard Warren struggling, Brace, Prior, Wright having injuries.
He started 4 games and made 10 tackles all season.

 

[Ring 6]

I call BS. Actually I call it times 3...

Semantic debate and self absorbed hijacks are what is killing football discussion here. And don't kid yourself, your posts are among the clearest examples of that.

Its why many actual football discussions on this board become unreadable. (All of the nonfootball ones are)
You have a guy like Deus Irae, who clearly posts for one reason, to try to belittle anyone who disagrees while pretending he is smarter. He rejects any counter point by labelling the poster to invalidate their opinion as dishonest. Then when he is wrong, with claims such as Nick Kaczur won the starting LG job by working out there in one practice, that the salary cap has been a non factor for years, etc, etc, he simply skulks away and hides.
In this case, he is on the right side of the argument, but no one really cares because he is more interested in belittling the PERSON making the argument that he just comes off as a dlck and no one listens.

 

[Observer]

Its why many actual football discussions on this board become unreadable. (All of the nonfootball ones are)
You have a guy like Deus Irae, who clearly posts for one reason, to try to belittle anyone who disagrees while pretending he is smarter. He rejects any counter point by labelling the poster to invalidate their opinion as dishonest. Then when he is wrong, with claims such as Nick Kaczur won the starting LG job by working out there in one practice, that the salary cap has been a non factor for years, etc, etc, he simply skulks away and hides.
In this case, he is on the right side of the argument, but no one really cares because he is more interested in belittling the PERSON making the argument that he just comes off as a dlck and no one listens.

Ah yes, and you decide what the right side of the argument is. Makes sense...

 

[Deus Irae]

I call BS. Actually I call it times 3...

Semantic debate and self absorbed hijacks are what is killing football discussion here. And don't kid yourself, your posts are among the clearest examples of that.

I was posting football takes, and nothing more, when a homer decided to start the personalizing and others jumped into the fray. Your belated attempt to pile on just continues the pattern.

My first post, in response to the question of which linemen were on the bubble:

Every lineman except Wilfork and, maybe, Ty Warrren.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/767904-idle-thoughts-thread-about-football.html#post2574861

No semantics or hijack

My second post, which led to Ken's response and all the hullabaloo, was a direct response to an Oswlek post that was made to someone I've got on ignore via Ffvb, was certainly not about semantics or hijacking, and was, again, strictly football :

You'll find Pryor's level of player getting cut from team after team every year.

Deaderick isn't very good either.

If it weren't for the shortened offseason, I'd have looked for either veteran free agents or UDFAs to have come in and pressed both Pryor and Deaderick for jobs. As it is, it's likely that at least one of them will get the ax, and both could find themselves unemployed, especially if BB decides to bring G. Warren back for another year.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/767904-idle-thoughts-thread-about-football-page2.html#post2575820

Now, you can dislike the take. You can disagree with the take. You can hate the take. But you can't honestly claim that the post was a hijack or a semantic argument.

In other words, your nonsensical entrance into this helps to make my point about the over-the-top homers such as yourself.

Furthermore, you post almost nothing but semantic debates, self absorbed hijacks and ridiculous attempts at pretending you know the minds and souls of everyone being posted about, so you calling me out is irony writ large.

 

[Observer]

If BB doesn't know best, then who the hell does? It certainly isn't anybody on this forum.

I call BS. Actually I call it times 3...

Semantic debate and self absorbed hijacks are what is killing football discussion here. And don't kid yourself, your posts are among the clearest examples of that.

I was thinking that the thread might be getting back on track but it has indeed gone off the deep end. I think I have seen enough of the gangbang too. The first quote above was given a "like" by molewis who then went on to give the words of wisdom of the second quote.

Its that first sentence that is killing any debate at all around here mate.

 

[Ring 6]

Ah yes, and you decide what the right side of the argument is. Makes sense...

Yes. I decide what I feel is the right side of the argument and you decide what you think is the right side of the argument.
Is it supposed to work some other way?
My point was even though I think he is on the right side of the argument his posting in an arrogant insufferable d00chebag manner overcomes that argument itself.
The correctness of any opinion has nothing to do with whether the other poster thinks they are negative or positive. The opinion is the opinion. Needing to classify the person making the opinion in some manner that is intended to belittle their credibility is simply a ploy to avoid directly dealing with the opinion.
I cannot believe you have not seen through that tactic.

 

[Observer]

Yes. I decide what I feel is the right side of the argument and you decide what you think is the right side of the argument.
Is it supposed to work some other way?
My point was even though I think he is on the right side of the argument his posting in an arrogant insufferable d00chebag manner overcomes that argument itself.
The correctness of any opinion has nothing to do with whether the other poster thinks they are negative or positive. The opinion is the opinion. Needing to classify the person making the opinion in some manner that is intended to belittle their credibility is simply a ploy to avoid directly dealing with the opinion.
I cannot believe you have not seen through that tactic.

You should have said my side rather than "right side", that would have been much beter.... but lets not get into that. That is exactly the super fast track to derail a conversation that we are trying to avoid.

Yes, that tactic has ben used but it is also equally bad to say outright that someone's opinion is baseless and without merit. That is as much a belittlement of someone's credibility as is the assertion that someone is biased.

From my vantage point, DI did not start the fire although he did fuel it. Then a whole bunch of people fanned the flames. What a disaster of a discussion idea...

 

[Ring 6]

You should have said my side rather than "right side", that would have been much beter.... but lets not get into that. That is exactly the super fast track to derail a conversation that we are trying to avoid.

Doesnt it go without saying that posts are opinion?

Yes, that tactic has ben used but it is also equally bad to say outright that someone's opinion is baseless and without merit. That is as much a belittlement of someone's credibility as is the assertion that someone is biased.

True, but the reaction was an overreaction. "We come from different viewpoints, I am objective and you are incapable of having an original thought" is taking it to a personal level. 'Your opinion is baseless and without merit' is about the opinion no the person offering it. Big difference.

From my vantage point, DI did not start the fire although he did fuel it. Then a whole bunch of people fanned the flames. What a disaster of a discussion idea...

This is just the latest train wreck in a pattern that has happened on this board for years. Pay attention to discussion based on the fact or opinion vs discussion based on belittling the person presenting the opinion, and you will see what I mean.

 

[Deus Irae]

You should have said my side rather than "right side", that would have been much beter.... but lets not get into that. That is exactly the super fast track to derail a conversation that we are trying to avoid.

Yes, that tactic has ben used but it is also equally bad to say outright that someone's opinion is baseless and without merit. That is as much a belittlement of someone's credibility as is the assertion that someone is biased.

From my vantage point, DI did not start the fire although he did fuel it. Then a whole bunch of people fanned the flames. What a disaster of a discussion idea...

I noted the difference in perspective, and noted that such a difference would often lead to differences in analysis. However, calling Ken a homer is nothing that he himself hasn't done.

Ken's own words:

....If I wasn't such a homer I'd almost be ashamed to take that win....

...Even a died in the wool optimistic homer like me, has to say NO! ...

I don't see how that's supposed to be fueling any fire.

 

[Defsoul]

There goes a thread about football...