idle thoughts...a thread about football

[Ring 6]

There isn't enough room to keep all the DL we currently have....any guesses who is on the bubble?

Wilfork-safe
Warren- recovery status unknown
Wright- recovery status unknown

I don't know if we have enough GOOD DL to make that statement.
Lets assume we keep the following.

Warren
Wilfork
Stroud
Brace
Wright
and whoever else as the 6th.

What quality NFL player that other teams are in a hurry to snatch up do we cut?

Love, Deaderick, Prior, and the rest are marginal NFL players.
The issue isnt that we have so many great DL, its that the last spot or 2 of on the roster will be heavily contested because we have a large group of medicore borderline NFL players at the postion.
The bright spot in that is that there is a large group of guys from which to find that one guy who improves dramatically.

 

[patfanken]

I sorta feel like the youngest at Yom Kippur or whatever holiday it is saying "Why is this year different from any other year?"

You are right. BTW, that's a Passover question. Passover is all about questions and eating. Yom Kippur is all about reflection and NOT eating. I had to straighten that out before PatJew had a heart attack.

 

[patfanken]

Well anythng is possible, but you have to consider the skill level and make up of the player. You compare him to Brady when he has shown none of Bradys attributes. We could say this about any 3rd year QB and be right on a couple and wrong on many.

A couple of Points Andy,

1. Sorry, no one would rather that Sanchez be considered a bust than me, but there are just too many examples of him engineering winning drives at the end of ball games and helping winning games in the playoffs to dismiss him so lightly. Four playoff wins in this first 2 years is quite an accomplishment, especially when you consider ALL FOUR were road games

You are correct in your description of how the Jets want to win ballgames, but while you can't dismiss his contribution and the clear improvement from year one to year two, just because he's a Jet (as much as I'd like to)

2. I agree that Brady was a much better QB in 2002 than in 2001, but IMHO he didn't really "come out" as the pure passer we've come to expect until 2003. Again, Just my opinion

3. As to making a comparison to Brady and Sanchez, its not easy but there are some. IMO they have 2 entirely different skill sets, but if you consider that Sanchez had started only 1 season in college and didn't have the benefit that Brady had of sitting his first year, even you would have to think he's don't well... AND should be expected to be better or at least more consistent THIS season.

4. I have mixed feelings on the Jets as a team this coming year. I hope that they get caught in a cap crunch, They could have severe depth problems if they do. However it would be a mistake to dismiss them, and I can't help but fear what this large FA class will do to help teams like the Jets fill the many holes they have.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Although I do believe that Sanchez (he'll never be a true leader) will get better in time, the Jets are screwed this year. The Jets used the year without a salary cap to try to buy a championship. It didn't work, and now they must shed talent, because they simply can not afford to man the team they had the past couple of years. If the salary cap does indeed shrink, the Jets will truly be up ****s creek without a paddle.

Although I don't believe most teams are in as bad a shape for a cap as a Jets, there are only a few that were truly prepared for the lack of free agency. Many teams were forced to draft for need in a weak draft class to fill gaping holes in their roster. With such a late training camp (if there even is one), only the few teams that used foresight will improve this year. We are going to see some sloppy football this year, especially early.

I have frequently said and posted that the Jets have made their attempt to ascend the AFCE, while the Patriots were rebulding.

But I too feel that their effort has crested in 2010, and their approach of trading multiple draft picks to move up and pick only one or two higher picks, simply can't work over most of a decade of doing that. Ever since dumping a bunch of picks to move up to draft Dewayne Kennedy and his bad knees, then the Gholston fiasco reveals the limitations of the approach. You must never miss and they have. Mangold, Harris and the CB, are slim pickings for all that manouvering.

Shaun Ellis has grown old along with LdT, and Wilkerson is pretty raw. Kendricks may be breaking rocks, rather than busting helmets. Leon Washington would still look good in a Jester uniform, but he isn't wearing Gangreen anymore.

 

[ay-yo]

4. I have mixed feelings on the Jets as a team this coming year. I hope that they get caught in a cap crunch, They could have severe depth problems if they do. However it would be a mistake to dismiss them, and I can't help but fear what this large FA class will do to help teams like the Jets fill the many holes they have.

Even though it's a large FA class it's not like there are any extra players in the league. For every quality player that becomes a FA there is a hole on a team that needs to be filled. No matter the appeal of playing for fatty money is still king and at the end of the day and I don't see players taking a discount to go there.

IDK the jets cap situation but from posts on this board it doesn't seem to be that good considering the amount of meaningful FA's they have.

 

[Oswlek]

I don't know if we have enough GOOD DL to make that statement.
Lets assume we keep the following.

Warren
Wilfork
Stroud
Brace
Wright
and whoever else as the 6th.

What quality NFL player that other teams are in a hurry to snatch up do we cut?

Love, Deaderick, Prior, and the rest are marginal NFL players.
The issue isnt that we have so many great DL, its that the last spot or 2 of on the roster will be heavily contested because we have a large group of medicore borderline NFL players at the postion.
The bright spot in that is that there is a large group of guys from which to find that one guy who improves dramatically.

For a guy who is typically glass half full about the Patriots, you have a decidedly negative slant on Pryor, Andy. Myron is a fine player who has more than proven he is NFL caliber. I have little doubt that he'd be snatched up immediately and IMO he could start on a number of 4/3 teams.

Deaderick showed terrific promise for a rookie 4/3 end. He also flamed out at the end of the year, which is concerning, but he proved to be NFL caliber. Again, given the growing number of 3/4 teams and the dearth of quality ends, I have little doubt that Brandon would be claimed on waiver as well.

I also think NE is going to keep at least 7 DL and possibly 8.

 

[patfanken]

I don't know if we have enough GOOD DL to make that statement.
Lets assume we keep the following.

Warren
Wilfork
Stroud
Brace
Wright
and whoever else as the 6th.

What quality NFL player that other teams are in a hurry to snatch up do we cut?

Love, Deaderick, Prior, and the rest are marginal NFL players.
The issue isnt that we have so many great DL, its that the last spot or 2 of on the roster will be heavily contested because we have a large group of medicore borderline NFL players at the postion.
The bright spot in that is that there is a large group of guys from which to find that one guy who improves dramatically.

I think you are being a little bleak about the DL. I think there is a lot to be optimistic about.

Wilfolk is elite at his position.

Warren was our best DLman the last few years Richard Seymour was going to pro bowls. He played decently while playing hurt in 2008 and nine. He is going to be healthy and hungry. I expect a super year out of him.

Stroud has been an all pro, and should do well as a first 2 down DE.
\
Wright was on his way to a spectacular year before he was hurt. 5.5 sacks in just 7 games was huge number for a guy who is a DE in a 3-4. Granted there is always going to be a question about his head, but until shown otherwise, who is out there on the FA market who is better at rushing the passer than a healthy Wright. BTW, I THINK that one of the reasons BB didn't go for a DE in this draft was that HE was comfortable that Wright was going to be OK

The Kids (Deadrick, Pryor, Love, and Brace), its WAY too early to dismiss them as "marginal NFL players". All have shown flashes from time to time. IMHO both Brace and Pryor could turn out to be very good pros

This isn't a great DL, like when we had Seymour, Warren. Wilfolk and Green, but I think it can be a very good one, and be deeper.

We shall see.

 

[Oswlek]

A couple of Points Andy,

1. Sorry, no one would rather that Sanchez be considered a bust than me, but there are just too many examples of him engineering winning drives at the end of ball games and helping winning games in the playoffs to dismiss him so lightly. Four playoff wins in this first 2 years is quite an accomplishment, especially when you consider ALL FOUR were road games

You are correct in your description of how the Jets want to win ballgames, but while you can't dismiss his contribution and the clear improvement from year one to year two, just because he's a Jet (as much as I'd like to)

2. I agree that Brady was a much better QB in 2002 than in 2001, but IMHO he didn't really "come out" as the pure passer we've come to expect until 2003. Again, Just my opinion

3. As to making a comparison to Brady and Sanchez, its not easy but there are some. IMO they have 2 entirely different skill sets, but if you consider that Sanchez had started only 1 season in college and didn't have the benefit that Brady had of sitting his first year, even you would have to think he's don't well... AND should be expected to be better or at least more consistent THIS season.

4. I have mixed feelings on the Jets as a team this coming year. I hope that they get caught in a cap crunch, They could have severe depth problems if they do. However it would be a mistake to dismiss them, and I can't help but fear what this large FA class will do to help teams like the Jets fill the many holes they have.

Sanchez has proven that he has all the stones you can ask for late in a tight game. He certainly deserves that.

But the rest of the his game blows. He hasn't had a 55% comp season yet (a very damning stat in today's NFL) and despite his ints going down in his 2nd season, footballoutsiders had him as one of the worst in the league in 2010 when it comes to interceptable balls. He just got lucky that a number of them were dropped.

He could improve a good deal on both ints and comp % and still be one of the worst QBs in the league for 3 quarters. He's just lucky that his team keeps him around long enough to display the one facet of his game that is strong. Look at the Indy playoff game as anecdotal evidence, when he was by a wide margin the worst player on the field until the final drive. But damn if he wasn't a cool customer on that final drive.

 

[Ring 6]

A couple of Points Andy,

1. Sorry, no one would rather that Sanchez be considered a bust than me, but there are just too many examples of him engineering winning drives at the end of ball games and helping winning games in the playoffs to dismiss him so lightly. Four playoff wins in this first 2 years is quite an accomplishment, especially when you consider ALL FOUR were road games

As I said if they win with defense and a running game and do not need to rely on the QB, then those are relevant. Otherwise, I see nothing more than a struggling young QB who would be exposed with an average defense and running game. What team he is on is not relevant to my opinion.

You are correct in your description of how the Jets want to win ballgames, but while you can't dismiss his contribution and the clear improvement from year one to year two, just because he's a Jet (as much as I'd like to)

I do not see his contribution as anything almost any NFL QB could not have done. Again, it has nothing to do with him being a Jet, regardless of how much you want to try to belittle my opinion by making that accusation.

2. I agree that Brady was a much better QB in 2002 than in 2001, but IMHO he didn't really "come out" as the pure passer we've come to expect until 2003. Again, Just my opinion

Your opinion. I just dont see what it has to do with Sanchez.

3. As to making a comparison to Brady and Sanchez, its not easy but there are some. IMO they have 2 entirely different skill sets, but if you consider that Sanchez had started only 1 season in college and didn't have the benefit that Brady had of sitting his first year, even you would have to think he's don't well... AND should be expected to be better or at least more consistent THIS season.

I just don't look at it that way. I don't think players follow any trend of anyone else. I dont think there is some expectation of improvement because someone else improved. I don't believe 'doing well' comes with qualifiers. With Sanchez, I don't see the skills that would make him a good QB.

4. I have mixed feelings on the Jets as a team this coming year. I hope that they get caught in a cap crunch, They could have severe depth problems if they do. However it would be a mistake to dismiss them, and I can't help but fear what this large FA class will do to help teams like the Jets fill the many holes they have.

It doesnt really matter if you or I dismiss them
Frankly I see them having net losses to the roster due to the cap, and needing to rely more on the QB, who IMO will never be more than medicore.
I will put it this way. Compared to the Dolphins and the Bills the Jets have more talent. But if you put a top 8 QB on each of those teams, they would be a much bigger threat than the Jets in 2011 and beyond.
I recognize we see this differently, but such is life.

 

[Ring 6]

I think you are being a little bleak about the DL. I think there is a lot to be optimistic about.

Wilfolk is elite at his position.

Warren was our best DLman the last few years Richard Seymour was going to pro bowls. He played decently while playing hurt in 2008 and nine. He is going to be healthy and hungry. I expect a super year out of him.

Stroud has been an all pro, and should do well as a first 2 down DE.
\
Wright was on his way to a spectacular year before he was hurt. 5.5 sacks in just 7 games was huge number for a guy who is a DE in a 3-4. Granted there is always going to be a question about his head, but until shown otherwise, who is out there on the FA market who is better at rushing the passer than a healthy Wright. BTW, I THINK that one of the reasons BB didn't go for a DE in this draft was that HE was comfortable that Wright was going to be OK

The Kids (Deadrick, Pryor, Love, and Brace), its WAY too early to dismiss them as "marginal NFL players". All have shown flashes from time to time. IMHO both Brace and Pryor could turn out to be very good pros

This isn't a great DL, like when we had Seymour, Warren. Wilfolk and Green, but I think it can be a very good one, and be deeper.

We shall see.

I'm fine with the top end of the depth chart.
I don't know how my 'marginal NFL players" and your "have shown flashes" are really any different.
I like Brace a lot. But out of Deaderick, Prior, Love, you have a bunch of guys who would be on the bubble to make any NFL team. Can they effectively be the 6th DL, sure (especially when the 6th DL is the winner of that competition) would any really be missed? No, and there wouldn't be a frantic race to see who could sign them first.

 

[Ring 6]

Sanchez has proven that he has all the stones you can ask for late in a tight game. He certainly deserves that.

But the rest of the his game blows. He hasn't had a 55% comp season yet (a very damning stat in today's NFL) and despite his ints going down in his 2nd season, footballoutsiders had him as one of the worst in the league in 2010 when it comes to interceptable balls. He just got lucky that a number of them were dropped.

He could improve a good deal on both ints and comp % and still be one of the worst QBs in the league for 3 quarters. He's just lucky that his team keeps him around long enough to display the one facet of his game that is strong. Look at the Indy playoff game as anecdotal evidence, when he was by a wide margin the worst player on the field until the final drive. But damn if he wasn't a cool customer on that final drive.

I realize there were a couple of games where he came back last year, but if you really look inside of it, its not as impressive as you make it out to be. They were mostly against poor teams. In some his failures almost cost the game and the opponent did something stupid. In others, for example, he heaved a terrible 4th down bomb that was uncatchable and the defender fell down at the feet of the receiver and got a pi, and in another he had a one play drive where he threw a slant and the WR took it to the house.
Yes he had the comebacks, but the say he was 'special' based on them is not accurate, in my opinion.

 

[Observer]

The Jets have made it further than us the past couple of years, even if with a worse record. Either we have to credit Sanchez with being a decent QB or we have to concede that the rest of the team is so good that it can overcome a terrible Sanchez. And Sanchez really seems to have nowhere to go but improve so in general I think we can expect the Jets to possibly get a wee bit better at least in the near term.

But that said, we should be getting better as well. Anyway, what I am trying to get at is that the AFC east is no longer a cake walk for us. We cannot and should not depend on the Jets being bad, we need to take care of business at our end and I am fairly confident that we will.

 

[Oswlek]

I realize there were a couple of games where he came back last year, but if you really look inside of it, its not as impressive as you make it out to be. They were mostly against poor teams. In some his failures almost cost the game and the opponent did something stupid. In others, for example, he heaved a terrible 4th down bomb that was uncatchable and the defender fell down at the feet of the receiver and got a pi, and in another he had a one play drive where he threw a slant and the WR took it to the house.
Yes he had the comebacks, but the say he was 'special' based on them is not accurate, in my opinion.

I don't recall using the word "special", only that he does seem to come through at the end with consistency, often despite looking completely lost for the first 50 minutes or so.

I agree that the Denver game was BS. The Houston game was also ridiculous, there is no reason why Edwards should ever be in 1:1 coverage that deep when there are less than 20 seconds left and NY needs to go 50+ yards. Hell, throw the Cleveland game in as well, NY should never have seen the ball again, let alone got away with a lucky break of a TD as time ran out.

But when a team keeps doing it, you have to give them some credit. It was similar to NE in 2003, with the exception that NE was winning against much better competition, of course. But I use them as a comparable because opposing fans saw all the close games and attributed each to luck while ignoring the larger whole.

All that said, Sanchez still sucks. All the game ending drives don't overcome the rest of his game.

 

[HomerSchooled]

In regards to accusations about the Jets being unstable cap-wise, I thought I'd pass along some facts.

Looking at 2011 salary-cap figures - espn.com

As of Feb 7, The Jets are second highest in the league behind the Cowboys, with 128.5 million devoted to 2011. That number does not include the franchise tag on David Harris (placed on Feb 15, around 10 mil.). That would likely push them past the Cowboys, around 138 million. Anyway, the consensus remains that the cap is definitely coming back. The last time we had one (2009), it was around 127 million.

So who are the Jets UFAs? Players who started most of the season are in bold.
WR: Santonio Holmes, Braylon Edwards
DL: Shaun Ellis, Kris Jenkins
OL: Damien Woody
DB: Antonio Cromartie, Brodney Pool, Eric Smith
ST: Brad Smith (KR), Nick Folk (PK), Steve Weatherford (P)

So that's 6 starters, their main back-up at safety, and their three main contributors on Special Teams. Consequently, the Jets are likely to seriously struggle putting a similar level of talent as last year on the field. Still, with some finagling that's sure to be beyond my understanding, they'll probably manage to keep at least a couple of these guys. I'm guessing Holmes and Ellis would be the most important to keeping the team competitive, but they'd require fairly substantial contracts. I imagine keeping both would likely require a few extra cuts.

As a point of reference, New England is in the bottom half of the league in hypothetical cap at 102.3 million devoted to 2011. Now that doesn't include Mankins' tag of 10.1 million, but we're still sitting pretty since our only UFA of note is Light, and I'm not sure we want him anyway. Point is, in almost all conceivable scenarios for 2011, we could afford some substantial extra signings if the FO deems it desirable. Personally, I'm pulling for DE/OLB Jason Babin, but if we really want to mess with the Jets, we could always go after Ellis and Holmes.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't recall using the word "special", only that he does seem to come through at the end with consistency, often despite looking completely lost for the first 50 minutes or so.

I agree that the Denver game was BS. The Houston game was also ridiculous, there is no reason why Edwards should ever be in 1:1 coverage that deep when there are less than 20 seconds left and NY needs to go 50+ yards. Hell, throw the Cleveland game in as well, NY should never have seen the ball again, let alone got away with a lucky break of a TD as time ran out.

Then add Detriot who botched killing the clock, after Sanchez turned it over and that is all of them.

But when a team keeps doing it, you have to give them some credit. It was similar to NE in 2003, with the exception that NE was winning against much better competition, of course. But I use them as a comparable because opposing fans saw all the close games and attributed each to luck while ignoring the larger whole.

You definitely have to credit the team, but the QB was not the reason, he was, at best, along for the ride.

All that said, Sanchez still sucks. All the game ending drives don't overcome the rest of his game.

He is what he is. The team pulling out a game late, or even him playing incredibly for a drive or 2, or even a full game doesnt change that. That is where I differ with the Sanchez supporters. To be a good NFL QB you need to make many, many, many good plays. Every NFL QB will make some. Find some anecdotal evidence of good things he does is not proof that he is a good QB. Also, the idea that he has nowhere to go but up is laughable.
Soon, the 'he's the new guy anything positive he does is a bonus' bs wears off. Then if I am wrong he improves. IF I am right he stagnates, which is WAY, WAY worse than many people are giving him credit for, or flat out declines.
There are way too many fundamental flaws in Sanchez as a QB to dismiss his poor play as youth, or to pick out a handful of plays and call that evidence of 'good'.

 

[Ring 6]

The Jets have made it further than us the past couple of years, even if with a worse record. Either we have to credit Sanchez with being a decent QB or we have to concede that the rest of the team is so good that it can overcome a terrible Sanchez. And Sanchez really seems to have nowhere to go but improve so in general I think we can expect the Jets to possibly get a wee bit better at least in the near term.

But that said, we should be getting better as well. Anyway, what I am trying to get at is that the AFC east is no longer a cake walk for us. We cannot and should not depend on the Jets being bad, we need to take care of business at our end and I am fairly confident that we will.

I dont know if you can draw those conclusions based upon one game.

Thats really what it is. They did not belong in the playoffs in 2009, so the fact they lasted longer than us before losing is hollow, IMO.
Last year they beat us in the playoffs, then lost. I just don't think that game should be the sole criteria of what you are stating.
We were better over the course of the season, they were better that day.

 

[Ring 6]

For a guy who is typically glass half full about the Patriots, you have a decidedly negative slant on Pryor, Andy. Myron is a fine player who has more than proven he is NFL caliber. I have little doubt that he'd be snatched up immediately and IMO he could start on a number of 4/3 teams.

Come on. He is a guy who can make the team, or could be out of football. There are 50 Myron Priors in the league and 50 more sitting home. I'm not saying he is undeserving of a roster spot, but he must fight and claw to earn one.

Deaderick showed terrific promise for a rookie 4/3 end.

I assume you mean 3-4?I don't know where you saw terrific promise. He got on the field and didnt embarrass himself but his play was thoroughly JAG-level.

He also flamed out at the end of the year, which is concerning, but he proved to be NFL caliber. Again, given the growing number of 3/4 teams and the dearth of quality ends, I have little doubt that Brandon would be claimed on waiver as well.

He would probably get picked up and have a chance to make a team, but no one would be beating down the door to get him, and whoever was in his place wouldn't make much of a difference. He is a JAG at this point. Perhaps he can develop into more, but as of now he is what he is.

I also think NE is going to keep at least 7 DL and possibly 8.

I dont think BB has ever kept 8. 7 is possible, 6 is more the norm.

 

[ay-yo]

Seeing our cap situation I'd make a big run at Ngata. I'm talking about 4 years 12 mil per. I wouldn't think twice about giving up 2 firsts for him. Even if you traded those 2 firsts for a higher pick you couldn't reasonably expect to get a player of Ngata's quality.

Worst case scenario you drive up the price for the Ravens.

Best case you have the 2 best guys in the NFL for the Pats NT and RDE spots. Your DL creates absolute havoc vaunting the defense into top 5.

 

[Professor Frink]

I'm of the opinion the Jets are royally screwed this year. First, let me say that they deserve all the credit of winning 20 games the last two years as well as making it to two championship games. Football is about winning and winning in the playoffs and they have done both.

With that said, last year they were a team with a ton of problems. They couldn't pressure the QB, they couldn't cover the middle of the field, the running game took a big step back, and of course they had a mediocre QB leading an inconsistent passing attack.

The big problem they have is they shouldn't be expected to improve in any area. Hell, even keeping the status quo should be difficult.

If the ESPN article is true about them being at 138M already for 2011 then they are even worst off than I thought. This is what 138 million dollars (which doesn't include rookie salaries) has gotten the Jets.

QB: Mark Sanchez, Erik Ainge, Mark Brunell, Kellen Clemens, Greg McElroy
RB: Shonn Greene, LaDanian Tomlinson, Joe McKnight, Bilal Powell
FB: John Connor
WR: Jerricho Cotchery, Patrick Turner, Jeremy Kerley, Scotty McKnight
TE: Dustin Keller, Jeff Cumberland, Mathew Mulligan
T: Vlad Ducasse, DBrick Ferguson
G: Brandon Moore, Matt Slauson
C: Nick Mangold
DL: Sione Pouha, Mike Devito, Muhammad Wilkerson, Kenrick Ellis, Ropati Pitoitua
OLB: Calvin Pace, Brian Thomas, Jamaal Westerman
ILB: David Harris, Bart Scott, Lance Laury, Josh Mauga
CB: Darelle Revis, Kyle Wilson, Dwight Lowery, Marquice Cole, Drew Coleman,
S: Jim Leonhard

Notice any enormous problems? They want a ground and pound offense but the best back they have is inconsistent and unreliable. They only have 1 proven WR. They have NO BACKUPS at O line! The only proven D lineman they have are two role players who shouldn't play more than 50-60% of the snaps. That secondary is horrible. With the lack of talent around them, I bet guys like Scott, Pace, and Thomas are gonna start to look real old.

The Jets are screwed, and it will be awesome to watch :rocker:

 

[supafly]

Re: Roster thoughts

Every year we see this nonsense from posters, and every year Belichick ignores posters and has at least two veteran special teams only players on the 53 man squad. Perhaps Belichick will find an upgrade to Slater and White for these two special teams positions, perhaps not. Brown might be considered a 3rd ST only player, although he did play some garbage time at safety (ditto for Murrell at emergency LB).

The reality is that once we have the final roster, there will be 2-4 players who are on the team to play special teams (not counting returners, kickers, dep snappers and holders).

Anyway, my point is that I seriously believe that the cuts (or losses in the case of White) will be at the special teams only positions such as Slater, and even possibly T.White--depending upon his status. The addition of so many draft picks with ST skills has made that specific position expendable in my opinion, even if it means taking a step down at the gunner position.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one mg. Regardless, I hardly think it is considered "nonsense." You may claim that 'every yr we see this prediction,' but the fact is that the past 2 drafts have provided a very heavy special teams presence, and that should make guys like Matthew Slater expendable. That is not a 'nonsensical' thought on any level. Fact is that Tracey White may not even be back--that also could trim a ST-only player right there. There are also many here who think that Matt Slater is hanging on for dear life, this is not my original thought, nor it is 'nonsense.'

And it has absolutely nothing at all to do with, as you put it "finding an upgrade to Slater or White," it has to do with using a guy who was drafted to play an actual position on special teams--during one of the more competitive roster yrs in recent memory due to the high number of athletic draft picks in rounds 1-3 the past two drafts. That will certainly add to the challenge of cutting down the roster to 53, and it is my opinion that Belichick drafted guys that can do BOTH in his most recent couple of drafts. The fact the you claim 'this nonsense happens every yr' is totally irrelevant because we have not had the recent turnover that we've had in the past two drafts with a loading of youth and speed. Any examples that you have from past yrs are totally irrelevant IMO.

As far as Sergio Brown playing 'garbage time,' that is a bit of a stretch. Especially considering that he played a vital part in the 23-20 absolute nailbiter game vs San Diego. I will concur that he did not play anything close to a high number of snaps, but he did step in nicely considering that he was a very green rookie signed off the practice squad. I believe that he did absolutely nothing to make Belichick leery of having him as the #5 safety this yr if necessary. It is certainly a possibility.

Here is a great article on him, what Belichick thinks of him, and his special teams presence. I think he has a decent shot as being our 5th safety, especially depending on what now happens to Page likely being a UFA. Brown provides versatility on both the corner and safety level (mainly safety, but has played CB--one of the reasons Caserio picked him), and offers good financial value, and plays well on special teams. He is one of the kinds of guys I am referring to when I speak of the ST only players being trimmed by a guy who actually...plays a position.

Yes, you are likely correct that there will be a player or two that is ST only, but one would have to think that with roster spots being extremely competitive due to the youth of the team + the high number of recent draft picks, I still think that this ST-only position gets trimmed by a player or two. I do not see how that is even remotely close to 'nonsense?'

Just out of curiosity--if you do not agree with my assessment that we could trim the roster with the following, exactly WHERE would you see the room for an additional QB and TE come from?

--OL
--ST only
--possible trim from 6 to 5 CB's

I do not see how or why this 'theory' would be considered so strange to you, and I'd have to think that there would be many other posters who would agree to some level. At the very least they'd agree that it's a possibility. If I remember correctly (and I do) you and a couple of other well-known posters had an awful lot to say last year, when I correctly predicted that we would carry an extra DL to 7.


Sergio Brown lauded as 'great example' - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston