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Idle thoughts – I am a Pats fan....and this is the draft

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Apr 27, 2013.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    I am a Pats fan...and this is the draft. So normally this is where I would go into my annual rant about my frustration in investing countless days discussing the pros and cons of dozens of potential Pats players, detailing with others about who we should pick and who is likely to be there when we do. Then there are the hours spent in watching the actual draft unfold, and once again be subject to trying to figure out what the **** just happened. :eek:

    I am a Pats fan....and this is the draft. So I watched my team trade down....again, and mostly agreed with the process. I justified the wasted 3 and half hours, by looking forward to a busy day on Friday, with 4 picks in the next 70, and dozens of very nice prospects that we could grab. People made lists. Lists with dozens of recognizable names that had been discussed over the last few months. Lists with lots of players that I would be comfortable with.

    I am a Pats fan....and this is the draft. So I am accustomed (or at least should be) to watching players I would love come off the board, only to hear the Pats make a pick of a player whom I haven't heard mentioned a SINGLE time in all the months leading up to this point. (If someone wrote a post touting Jamie Collins as a prospect, I'd love to see it.)

    I am a Pats fan....and this is the draft. So I should be accustomed by now to watching my personal binkie (Margus Hunt) get picked immediately AFTER we get another mystery man.

    I am a Pats fan....and this is the draft. So when all is said and done, we end up drafting 4 players. 3 of which had NEVER been discussed, and a 4th whose name I recognized (Aaron Dobson) but rarely saw mentioned as a likely prospect for us.

    I am a Pats fan....and this is the draft. So I should be accustomed by now at checking the players we drafted and finding all had significantly lower draft grades than the players drafted around them. Clearly whatever scoring system is used by the rest of league, we are using something else.

    I am a Pats fans....and this the draft. So this whine is something we all do at this time, and over the next few days it will be echoed by many, who like myself our scratching our heads and trying to make sense of what just happened. I will have gird myself to hearing the mediots take this draft apart. Ron Borges is practically giddy with anticipation, and I can see Mazz, with all his football knowledge :rolleyes: salivating.

    BUT HERE'S THE THING: I am a freakin' Pats fan! And I get to watch my team get to win 10+ games EVERY freakin' year, without the occasional dips we see from the “other good teams”. My team has a young roster, seemingly filled with talented players. And none of us expect anything less but ANOTHER serious run at a superbowl.

    This team is a lot more than just a HOF QB, and the best coach in the league. It takes 53 players to win all those games against other talented teams and it only gets harder every year. Somehow during these war of attrition seasons, BB has built teams that can survive all the injuries that occur, better than most everyone else. That depth that allows those double digit season got there somehow. So whatever we do in the draft and however strange it must seem you CANNOT argue with the end results...You just can't. We must be doing something right in the player acquisition process. Otherwise all those teams that seem to do better than us, would be beating us.

    BOTTOM LINE: We can question. We can complain, but until the day comes where we start to see those 8-8 or 5-11 seasons again, there has to be some acknowledgment that whatever BB is doing in the player acquisition department is working, rendering all our *****ing and moaning pretty much irrelevant. ;) (including my own)
  2. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rookie

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    Bottom line: 8 years no Super Bowls victories.

    The team is Tom Brady and I feel bad that his last years are being wasted, he is the great QB ever to play this game, the ultimate team player, and gets to enjoy another grueling season of putting the entire team on his back.
  3. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    Every year without a Superbowl feels like a waste for 31 teams. They are hard to win. Stop pretending that that feeling is isolated to the Patriots.
  4. Brady2Moss

    Brady2Moss Rookie

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    31 teams have the best Qb in the league, 31 teams have the best Qb of all time too right? Stop pretending this isn't a unique situation. Stop pretending we don't have a unique advantage because we have an elite QB with reasonable cap hits because he took a massive pay cut on an extension this offseason to lower his cap number. Stop pretending other teams aren't getting bent over by their elite Qbs cap wise.

    I'll let the rah rah BS go on now, those are my 2 cents. See ya.
  5. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    Heh. Heh.

    This is why I absolutely refuse to read a single word about draft prospects or who the Pats should pick in the weeks leading up to the draft. It's all meaningless because Mel Kiper doesn't have access to the Pats draft boards. And, he isn't drafting a guy in the third round to be a stellar special teams player the way Belichick is. The whole draft analysis thing is nothing but fantasy football. Pat Kirwin puts in in perspective when he points out that only 20 players selected at Radio City Music Hall will be starters on opening day. Basically, all these guys are projects and crapshoots.

    As fans, we want a shut down corner or a whatever. Belichick wants a guy who can maybe step in and not give up three touchdowns when Talib gets hurt in game and who otherwise can make some special teams plays or not embarrass himself playing a few snaps at dime during the season. He knows he's not getting Deon Sanders in the third round. He's looking for good solid JAGs, too because you've gotta have 'em on a 53 man roster and you want to get 'em on cheap rookie conracts. "Hall of Fame? Hall of Fame! Don't talk to me about the Hall of Fame.... I just wanna draft a kid who can make the team...."
  6. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    There's still going to be 31 disappointed teams at the end of the season. The Patriots are one of the top 5 teams in the NFL. I stress the word team.
  7. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    I too didn't study the draft at in advance at all this year. Glad I didn't.
  8. Username

    Username Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    I'm pretty happy with the first two picks. Although I would have taken others who were available, they're both solid picks who should contribute from the get go. The other two picks are head scratchers.
  9. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    A cynic could point out that Greg Schiano rebuilt his secondary this offseason, and HE didn't draft those guys. :)
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Probably because he made his CB pick prior to these picks.. most of what he did was through free agency..

    Lets see how many games this team wins...
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Main forum has a good breakdown of Pats drafts since 2000.

    Good solid number of starters, right in the middle of the pack despite bad position every year in every round. Decent average time in the league, despite the "trade down and roll the dice" approach. But here's the thing -- they are so far ahead in total pro-bowlers and all-pros that they'd lead the league without Brady.

    Draftniks, draftniks, draftniks... two things are true:

    1) You don't know what BB et al know, and
    2) They'll never pick who you think or want. Evah.

    I'll try to get to my annual "Get to know you" thread for some comic relief. But like the OP says, just relax. Best team in the league to root for. I remember thinking in the early 90s, "Wah boo hoo, I wouldn't mind being a Bills fan" when people were pitying them.

    So I don't have much love for this "Wah we haven't won the super bowl since 2004" thing. If Brady wins zero more SBs, wah, cope, they still just happen to know more than you about the draft.
  12. BlitzFritz

    BlitzFritz Rookie

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    I am very excited about Collins. Distinctive profile. Super speed rusher, and cover skills. Love the pick.

    I am pretty excited about Dobson. Looks like the big fast receiver we all wanted. With hands. What's not to like?

    I think I like Ryan. Seems tough and decent.

    I dont get the fourth guy pick.

    -------

    Seems like we may have added 2-3 guys who can really make this team, and have an impact. Not so bad.

    I dont slave over the draft like others so I dont get so worked up about NOT drafting the players we left on the board.

    I am still grateful for those home AFCC games. The team building process seems to work.

    -- FRITZ
  13. borg

    borg Rookie

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    These weekly outpourings......your shrink assigns you this weekly exercise in order for you to banish your inner demons and confront your fears openly (in an anonymous sort of way)....right? Has anyone wearing a white uniform removed your belt and shoe laces recently? :)
  14. Off The Grid

    Off The Grid Rookie

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    #3 Jersey

    2 Questions...

    1 ~ Are you a Patriots Fan?

    2 ~ Is this...the Draft?

    Thank you for your attention to these matters.
  15. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm getting a little sick of this line, used mostly by trolls of other teams.

    Show me a team that has made it to 5 super Bowls in the last 12 years. show me another team that has been to 7 AFCCG's in the past 12 years.

    Oh and BTW, TFB is just as responsible for the 2 close losses as anyone else, just as he was responsible for the 3 close SB wins.

    Yes all fans want their team to win the SB every year. But it's the "fans" who repeatedly whine about the 2 last minute SB losses, every chance that they get, that are an embarrassment to the rest of the fans base of this team.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First 40 years as a Pats fan 2 trips to the SB no wins, last 8 years 2 trips to the SB. The last 8 years is living large compared to most of my life as a Pats fan.

    In addition the core of the team has been rebuilt while winning double digits games every year.

    We went to the AFCCG and lost to the SB winner. Some people don't know who well they have it.



    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  17. MUFC7

    MUFC7 Rookie

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    After watching the press conference I am not as concerend anymore with this draft class. He said there could be FAs after the draft and if we get Abraham for the rotation I think this their plan is shapping up very nicely. There are still some quality players left for the 4th round pick (Patton, Jesse Williams).

    The draft is a crapshot. I can remember that many experts didn't like the Seahawks last year draft and look what now everyone says about this draft class. The Harmon pick is a headscratcher and I honestly don't know why he did it. He could've easily waited for the 4th round pick. I didn't like the Logan pick either. Another zone CB that can get burned easily? Yeah exactly what this D needed. Maybe like last year we'll get a real steal a la Dennard in the 7th that makes it look better. But after all I'm happy with this off season. Only thing that really stings is that instead of Harmon we could have Sanders. That would've been a great draft this way.
  18. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    THAT was the point of my little late night writing exercise. The fact is that for all the legitimate frustrations we have in watching the Pats draft, you cannot deny the results. NO other team in the league can come close to matching the overall accomplishments this team has made over the last 12 years. THUS, while we will be forced to hear all the questions about BB's draft acumen over the next few weeks, he must be doing something right, otherwise all those wins wouldn't have happened.

    I wrote it because I know how pissed off I am going to be listening to those who will shout to the universe, "why can't we draft like the Ravens do" or "draft like the Steelers do", or "draft like the Niners do", yet COMPLETELY ignore those teams' occasional slippages into mediocrity.

    For 12 years now, with the occasional exception, we have been drafting late in EVERY round. Every policy and procedure the NFL can think of is designed to make sure that EVERY team occasionally has to slip back to the pack . Yet somehow this management team has kept the Pats above that criteria. So while we have the right to legitimately criticize this pick or that, the reality is, there is no team I'd rather be compared with when it comes to player acquisition, than the New England Patriots.

    So while that last pick was really a mystery, and totally unexplanable, even more so than the Wilson pick of last year; I have to look at the TOTAL volume of work over the years and compare it with the results, and in the end just shake my head and move on. ;)
  19. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    #91 Jersey

    Grid, I don't get it. please explain.
  20. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You arent reading where other teams rank players. You are reading where people who are trying to guess where teams rank players think they should be ranked.
    I think if you look back guys who get chosen higher than those rankings work out better than guys who 'drop' who are drafted in the same vicinity. Its just bizarre the way the draft is covered. Geno Smith and Matt Barkley didnt 'drop', the people guessing what NFL decision makers were thinking were wrong. The pick wasn't wrong, the guess was.
  21. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ken,

    Yes, we are fans. And yes, it is a bit frustrating to see players we don't know drafted. However, Collins and Dobson were rated by Mayock almost exactly where they were picked. Ryan was a bit early, but a half a round early was necessary because of the run on corners.

    All this being said, there is no explanation for choosing a 6th or 7th rounder at 91 when we had a pick at 102 and lots of alternatives on the board.

  22. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brady hasn't been the best QB in the league for the last 45 years. Over the years, there have been different best QBs in the league. For a decade or more it was Montana and Bill Walsh was only able to get three rings with him. At another time it was Marino and he has none. For a period of time it was Elway who only has two. Favre could lay claim for that title and he has one. Over the last three years, you could argue Rodgers is the best and he has one and hasn't sniffed the Super Bowl since.

    The fact of the matter is the Pats were one minute away from winning a Super Bowl twice in the last five years and went to two other AFC title games in the last six. That means the Pats have put together teams good enough to win Super Bowls over that era. Other factors including poor execution by players and coaches, injuries to key players, luck (Tyree catch), and just opposing team rising to the occasion played into the fact the Pats haven't won a Super Bowl since 2004.

    Every one of the Pats' Super Bowl appearances came down to the wire whether they won or loss. The only real difference between the wins or losses are a handful of plays that were executed. I don't credit or blame drafting on whether did or didn't make them.
  23. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    not so idle thoughts

    it is important to have an opinion about the draft picks.....I just have no idea why.....oh yeah, because we are all experts
  24. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The draft IS a crapshoot. That doesn't mean darts at a board.
    At any point in the draft there are a number of players who all 'appear' to be similar level of prospects. The later in the draft, the bigger the number.
    The real crapshoot though is that all you have now is potential. Every player drafted has the basic skillset to exceed the expectations of his draft slot, but there are 100s of variables for how a 21 year old with potential does in his professional career, especially after, in most cases, having money for the first time.
    What is their work ethic? Off the field distractions? Remember when you were 21? If you had more money than you needed and half the year off, how many bad habits would you develop? Everyone would answer that differently, which is really the point. No player is drafted with good techmique in all areas they need it in the NFL. They must all improve. Every player has their own learning curve. Most of the highly touted picks were physically superior to their competition in college, and tend to be weak on technique. Whether they develop that or not is unknown.
    Really 90% of the success of any of these draft choices is what they do AFTER today, not what got them drafted. Those drafted higher have less development to endure, but clearly as the actual results of the draft have shown, that only changes the percentages a bit, it doesnt guarantee anything.
  25. bishbash

    bishbash Rookie

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    (imagined contribution)

    I am a Pat's sportswriter....and this is the draft. I have spent months studying hundreds of hours of film and diligently examining reports of college players that could possibly be a good fit for the Patriots. I have spent many dozens of hours writing up articles/preparing video reports to post to the public regarding my best guesses regarding who the Patriots might draft. And every single year my predictions are not only incorrect, the Patriots seem to draft players I hadn't even considered, much less mentioned. I feel a failure, again.

    I am a Pat's sportswriter....and this is the draft. I count my blessings, for most fans seem to forget, year after year, that Bill Belichick and company always confound the predictions of every single draft prediction. Fortunately, they always read my predictions, year after year.

    I am a Pat's sportswriter....and this is the draft. Next year, I think I'll have my 4 year old daughter draw names from a hat of all the available draftees. I'm sure I'll get a few more names right than in previous predictions.
  26. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Again, you haven't answered me this question. When did Mike Mayock become the standard on where a player is supposed to be drafted or not? I like Mayock, but he is not perfect. Not even close.

    Also, using Mayocks Big Board of the Top 100 players is not valid way of judging anyway. He ranks all the players as he sees them no matter the position, but a ton of those picks are not on the Pats board at all and shouldn't be.

    I mean he has Geno Smith ranked 21. Say the Jets didn't draft him and he fell to #52 and the Pats picked him, would you be praising them for getting the 21st best player with the 52nd pick or would you be blasting them for taking a QB with their first pick in the draft when they have Brady and Mallett on the bench?

    You strip away the players on Mayock's board that the Pats have absolutely no need or would never draft even if they fell to them in the seventh round, Mayock's board would look completely different. If Mayock was making a Big Board just for the Pats, Collins and Dobson might be top 20. Hence using it as you way of judging the Pats' draft is flawed to begin with before you accept the fact that it is just one man's opinion.
  27. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    after looking at who was available at the moment the pats picks were picked, I can't really make an argument about the 'who'

    the 2 consecutive DB's still bugs me a bit.....I figured that's what they would do at WR in order to get at least 1 guy who can play.

    the pats won't suffer if neither DB pans out, but they will if dobson doesn't.....so my complaint is really limited to the notion of hedging bets

    there's certainly nothing as blatant as taking ron brace instead of connor barwin
  28. Nunchucks

    Nunchucks Rookie

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    I like that people are whining about an end of the 3rd rd pick. that is comedy gold
  29. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    Is Maya Angelou your mama?
  30. Peachhead

    Peachhead PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Remember, BB is the best coach in the league. Easily one of the best in the history of the league. And he has Tom Brady (another one of the GOATs). Give him a year coaching up East Buttplug Junior College and put Brady at QB and they would have a winning season in the NFL. He can get noname players to do what no other coach can.

    So the correlation between having a great W/L record and drafting good is imperfect at best.
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