Idle Thoughts – bye week edition

[yopats]

I say get Dobson healthy for AFCCG, thats 3 weeks.

Spikes could use some rest as well.

 

[supafly]

Sup, I have to say I'm surprised you would stoop to the level of some here, to fortify your position. You know very well that over the last 10 games that Dobson hasn't been fully healthy for over half of them. That might just have been a slight factor in Dobson's lack of production And as for you contention that Brady targeted on 2 of his first 4 throws in the Bills game, including the one he pulled up lame on, sort of refute that opinion.

I know Dobson hasn't had the great season that some of the rookie WRs have had, but he IS a physical presence that team have to respect and a skill set that no other WR has. With him being out, it not only makes Brady's job in the red zone more difficult, it makes everyone else's job tougher because teams don't have to defend that skill set.

As to how BB evaluated Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce's first season, and how he see's their potential will be easily seen by how BB builds next year's receiver corps. If he gives Julian a market contract and/or goes after a prominent FA WR, and or drafts a WR in the first 2 rounds, then your point will be made, and BB didn't like what he saw from his rookie trio. However if he stay relatively Pat with what he has now on the Roster and PS, and just adds developmental or camp competition types, then my point will be made, and Bill liked what he saw better than you have. Until this all plays out, we could go at this, for the next 4 months and not come to a definitive conclusion. But when we look at the WR corps BB takes to TC next July, one of us should be able to make an excellent case of "I told you so".

See you then.

I'm not meaning to sound as down on Dobson as I am coming across as doing, but at the same time I am wondering (and have been for awhile) why so many are pinning our hopes on someone who really hasn't shown much, if any tendency to be either a downfield, nor a red zone threat--at least for this particular year? When he's out there, has his 18 catches since week 6 shown you something out of the ordinary in terms of bringing back old visions of Randy Moss? Are we supposing to be expecting the second coming of Anquan Boldin to show up next Saturday night? LOL. Aaron Dobson is still attempting to get his feet wet, and while he has plenty of potential, I think we may be having to wait until next year to see that happen.

At this point in his career, which is to be expected, all he really adds is another body who has the potential to do these kinds of things. Sure, haven't him is better than not having him, but he needs to step his game up about 5 levels to be at the same plane as many view him here. By reading some of these comments, you'd think our entire postseason comes down to whether or not we have Aaron Dobson, and I find that practically comical.

You can state the unfortunate situation of him missing 3 games and try to mesh that into him not doing too much for the past 2.5 months, but I don't think that's being too fair either, is it? From the sound of your comments, you'd think that Dobson is some major weapon in our offense this year, and that's hardly been the case. As I said, he has potential, and we're all hoping that he comes through as a downfield threat and in the red zone, but how many times has it actually happened? Our offense is going to go through our short passing attack and our running game, and we're all hoping that Dobson suddenly comes in and gives us all of these options that you're talking about, but c'mon...isn't some of this fantastical for this 2013 rookie year?

 

[supafly]

As to how BB evaluated Dobson, Thompkins and Boyce's first season, and how he see's their potential will be easily seen by how BB builds next year's receiver corps. If he gives Julian a market contract and/or goes after a prominent FA WR, and or drafts a WR in the first 2 rounds, then your point will be made

???

My point is that Aaron Dobson has plenty of talent and potential to be a good WR in this system, but if you're actually expecting him to be much of a contributor in the 2013 postseason I think you may be kidding yourself.

If he scores a TD I will be more than happy, but reading some of these comments, people seem to be pinning our postseason chances on a guy who's caught a total of 18 balls since the middle of October.

If you don't see anything strange with that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

and BB didn't like what he saw from his rookie trio. However if he stay relatively Pat with what he has now on the Roster and PS, and just adds developmental or camp competition types, then my point will be made, and Bill liked what he saw better than you have. Until this all plays out, we could go at this, for the next 4 months and not come to a definitive conclusion. But when we look at the WR corps BB takes to TC next July, one of us should be able to make an excellent case of "I told you so".

See you then.

Again, you're not fully understanding the stance, and it seems that with some anyone who questions anything at all is automatically "afraid" of the opposition or "down" on the team or player.

It's one extreme or another a lot of the times around here, and it doesn't have to be that way.

I have said it about 25 times now....I am right there with you in thinking that Dobson can be a very good WR here, and I believe that his rookie season was right what most of us expected, despite some of these 5 star reviews about his great downfield threat and physical red zone targets this season.

I am just not in agreement that we all should be waiting patiently by the side of the injury report to judge our team's postseason hopes on that of a rookie who hasn't contributed crap lately. Our chances are much more likely to go through our shorter field passing game + ability to run the ball. If that seems so out of the ordinary or controversial to you, then I apologize, b/c it's not meant to be so.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

???

My point is that Aaron Dobson has plenty of talent and potential to be a good WR in this system, but if you're actually expecting him to be much of a contributor in the 2013 postseason I think you may be kidding yourself.

If he scores a TD I will be more than happy, but reading some of these comments, people seem to be pinning our postseason chances on a guy who's caught a total of 18 balls since the middle of October.

If you don't see anything strange with that, I'm not sure what to tell you.



Again, you're not fully understanding the stance, and it seems that with some anyone who questions anything at all is automatically "afraid" of the opposition or "down" on the team or player.

It's one extreme or another a lot of the times around here, and it doesn't have to be that way.

I have said it about 25 times now....I am right there with you in thinking that Dobson can be a very good WR here, and I believe that his rookie season was right what most of us expected, despite some of these 5 star reviews about his great downfield threat and physical red zone targets this season.

I am just not in agreement that we all should be waiting patiently by the side of the injury report to judge our team's postseason hopes on that of a rookie who hasn't contributed crap lately. Our chances are much more likely to go through our shorter field passing game + ability to run the ball. If that seems so out of the ordinary or controversial to you, then I apologize, b/c it's not meant to be so.

Supa, our hopes land on Hooman, vereen, Dobson and KT. Edelman and amendola can't be our EZ targets. Unless Blount can power through or we can get in from beyond the 20, we need the big bodied guys to step up and help in the EZ. If not, we will have 2012 AFCCG all over again. Good drives that stall inside the 20.

 

[supafly]

Supa, our hopes land on Hooman, vereen, Dobson and KT. Edelman and amendola can't be our EZ targets. Unless Blount can power through or we can get in from beyond the 20, we need the big bodied guys to step up and help in the EZ. If not, we will have 2012 AFCCG all over again. Good drives that stall inside the 20.

That's a "hope" that we all have, but judging by the team in its last 10 games without much production from Dobson, there's a much better chance that we're going to have to rely on our proper execution to score more TDs than FGs.

Again...I'm not stating that Dobson won't help us, but I am wondering why there are so many who are pinning our hopes on Aaron Dobson, who still is attempting to gain the trust of Tom Brady in every form? Are we really to believe that Brady is going to suddenly have all of the confidence in the world to continuously go to a rookie in the postseason? Hopefully the looks that he does get can be important ones that take advantage of him seeing the right things and being on the same page as Brady.

There's a much better chance that we'll be relying on the running game, Edelman, Amendola, and the creativity that (hopefully) will allow us to properly execute just the same way that we've been doing without Dobson contributing much of anything lately. It seems that there is a good part of "hope" meshed into this thinking in my opinion, so let's hope that this rookie is up for all of your higher expectations. I'm thinking we'd be very fortunate to see Dobson just come in and attract some attention, with the potential to make a couple/few catches here and there.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I say get Dobson healthy for AFCCG, thats 3 weeks.

Spikes could use some rest as well.

I do understand your sentiment. It would be great to get some keys guys more rest and get them closer to 100%. But, IMHO, it's the wrong time of the year for that type of thinking. Anyone who can play that is a position/skill that is needed? They need to suit up! even if they are playing through a tough and nagging injury that could otherwise use rest.

I see this like a baseball playoff series game and our team is facing elimination; any pitcher who has anything in his arm needs to be ready and waiting in the bullpen -- even if that pitcher might be needed in the next game. The thinking has to be there is no tomorrow! The Pats-Indy game is the only game that matters and every iota, including injured players that can still play, needs to be thrown at it to win. Every subsequent game must be approached in the same way........

 

[supafly]

I do understand your sentiment. It would be great to get some keys guys more rest and get them closer to 100%. But, IMHO, it's the wrong time of the year for that type of thinking. Anyone who can play that is a position/skill that is needed? They need to suit up! even if they are playing through a tough and nagging injury that could otherwise use rest.

I see this like a baseball playoff series game and our team is facing elimination; any pitcher who has anything in his arm needs to be ready and waiting in the bullpen -- even if that pitcher might be needed in the next game. The thinking has to be there is no tomorrow! The Pats-Indy game is the only game that matters and every iota, including injured players that can still play, needs to be thrown at it to win. Every subsequent game must be approached in the same way........

Either they are going to be able to play on Saturday night, or they aren't, but I would think the chances would be extremely low of Belichick looking ahead and just choosing to hold anyone out due to caution as he likely did at times in the regular season.

Hopefully the bye week helped some of these nagging injuries.

 

[letekro]

???

My point is that Aaron Dobson has plenty of talent and potential to be a good WR in this system, but if you're actually expecting him to be much of a contributor in the 2013 postseason I think you may be kidding yourself.

If he scores a TD I will be more than happy, but reading some of these comments, people seem to be pinning our postseason chances on a guy who's caught a total of 18 balls since the middle of October.

If you don't see anything strange with that, I'm not sure what to tell you.



Again, you're not fully understanding the stance, and it seems that with some anyone who questions anything at all is automatically "afraid" of the opposition or "down" on the team or player.

It's one extreme or another a lot of the times around here, and it doesn't have to be that way.

I have said it about 25 times now....I am right there with you in thinking that Dobson can be a very good WR here, and I believe that his rookie season was right what most of us expected, despite some of these 5 star reviews about his great downfield threat and physical red zone targets this season.

I am just not in agreement that we all should be waiting patiently by the side of the injury report to judge our team's postseason hopes on that of a rookie who hasn't contributed crap lately. Our chances are much more likely to go through our shorter field passing game + ability to run the ball. If that seems so out of the ordinary or controversial to you, then I apologize, b/c it's not meant to be so.

Dobson averaged 5 catches for almost 70 yds and had all 3 of his TDs in the 5 games before getting hurt. That is very good production and he showed the ability to get open deep. It would be huge to have a guy like that in the playoffs, at least for the threat of the deep ball. However, I don't expect him to be able to contribute due to his injury and missed time.

 

[Username]

I think it's very optimistic to expect Vince to be back next year. At the risk of being branded a pessimist, my gut feeling is that if we do see Vince back, he will be half the player he was. A torn Achilles tendon is a serious injury and has ended many athletes careers in a range of sports, very few of whom were 350lbs. It's a very debilitating injury.

 

[supafly]

Dobson averaged 5 catches for almost 70 yds and had all 3 of his TDs in the 5 games before getting hurt. That is very good production and he showed the ability to get open deep. It would be huge to have a guy like that in the playoffs, at least for the threat of the deep ball. However, I don't expect him to be able to contribute due to his injury and missed time.

I agree that he seemed to be peaking around game #8 or game #9, but things have gone in a much different direction since then. For one thing, the first half of the season prior to the bye was quite a long time ago, but more importantly--we do not have the luxury of Gronkowski anymore, and I think that helped to open up his production significantly. You also have to realize that his one breakout game vs PIT really helped to increase those 5/70 numbers that you're speaking of. Other than one decent game this year, I've yet to see him as a big deep threat or even much of a viable red zone threat.

I also agree that it's very fair to think that he can potentially be a nice help, but I also think that Brady is going to want to continue his rapport with those whom he trusts, especially in the postseason. I believe that it will come down to execution, much like the past 1/2 season when Dobson was either invisible or not on the field.

If we can get 3-4 catches a game from Dobson in the postseason (however long that may be) I will consider it a huge success myself. My expectations are not very high for the remainder of this year, and yet it seems that the majority here feel quite differently.

 

[supafly]

I think it's very optimistic to expect Vince to be back next year. At the risk of being branded a pessimist, my gut feeling is that if we do see Vince back, he will be half the player he was. A torn Achilles tendon is a serious injury and has ended many athletes careers in a range of sports, very few of whom were 350lbs. It's a very debilitating injury.

The injury and contract situations of both Wilfork and Kelly will be one of the more important things to watch throughout the spring and summer. It is probably way up in the air at this point in time, but I would imagine that Belichick will not be depending on Vince's return. I think we'll be targeting the position of DL/DT in the draft for sure.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Supa, our hopes land on Hooman, vereen, Dobson and KT. Edelman and amendola can't be our EZ targets. Unless Blount can power through or we can get in from beyond the 20, we need the big bodied guys to step up and help in the EZ. If not, we will have 2012 AFCCG all over again. Good drives that stall inside the 20.

Arch, Dobson did get fairly hot for a period of time, however, it's such a small sample of production do you think it's realistic to believe he'll be the difference in RZ execution? I find that too much to expect. Sure, it could happen but it can't be expected. The Patriots are going to have to score TDs with whatever horses they have and whatever way they can....at this point it just is what it is ((unless Hoo has a playoff breakout a la Jermaine Wiggins in 2001). Some of the RZ struggles I expect to see will have to be dealt with as best as possible.

That's the bad news. The good news is, unlike 2012 as you mentioned, this year's team is better from an all around basis (at least I think it is). More physical, better able to shut down passing offenses for large chunks of a game, more robust pass rush (by a bit), better 1-2 complimentary punch in the running game, STs are very solid, and despite my concern with the OL they seem to me to be nastier/playing with more attitude (needed for a better run game). And the cherry in top is this team appears VERY mentally tough. All the tumult and turnover of this season, all the new faces being plugged in all over the place, yet they won 12 games and were within a hair of winning 3 of the other 4 (and the Cincy game was still very close).

The 2013 Patriots are going to win this thing if they play well executed 3 phase complimentary football as well as continue to prove their mental toughness. Any struggles in the RZ will, IMHO, be well absorbed by their overall play.

 

[supafly]

Boy, would it be nice to see just one more viable receiving candidate step up though, no matter who that is.

I don't think any of us give the slightest damn if it's Hooman, Devlin, Mulligan, Thompkins, Dobson, or even Austin Collie. We certainly could use one more player to really pick their game up, even though it may be more of a hope than a reality.

 

[ATippett56]

7.Once again returning to an off season topic to end on, what are the Pats going to do about our own key FA's this off season. How much is too much for Edelman and Talib. With Amendola, Boyce, Dobson and Thomkins all coming back, can we afford to let Julian walk if the bidding gets too high (ie over $4MM/year) Do we extend Solder this off season? Should we do something about Mankins and Wilfolks contracts this off season and would they accept significant cut in pay to lower their cap numbers? Feel free to discuss

OK guys, enjoy the games today. I only hope they will as enterataining and exciting as yesterday's edition of Wild Card Weekend. By 5 we will know who we are playing and the entire focus of the board will shift to them.

Mankins and Wilfork accept pay cuts? Let's tell two team captains to take pay cuts while Steve Gregory gets paid more than Devin McCourty.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2014 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

In the meantime, Isaac Sopoaga is not worth $3.5 million next season and Adrian Wilson is not worth $1.833 million next season either.

 

[jsull87]

Mankins and Wilfork accept pay cuts? Let's tell two team captains to take pay cuts while Steve Gregory gets paid more than Devin McCourty.

Miguel's UNOFFICIAL 2014 Patriots Salary Cap Information Page

In the meantime, Isaac Sopoaga is not worth $3.5 million next season and Adrian Wilson is not worth $1.833 million next season either.

Sopoaga is going to be cut I think we all know that.

RE Wilson, he isn't worth 1.83m? He was the starter in TC before he tore his Achilles. If he can beat out Gregory and make his 3m+ cap hit expendable then yep he is definitely worth $1.83m.

I can't see both Gregory and Wilson being cut. If it's a jump ball, Wilson may just get it from a cost point of view.

 

[patfanken]

Sopoaga is going to be cut I think we all know that.

RE Wilson, he isn't worth 1.83m? He was the starter in TC before he tore his Achilles. If he can beat out Gregory and make his 3m+ cap hit expendable then yep he is definitely worth $1.83m.

I can't see both Gregory and Wilson being cut. If it's a jump ball, Wilson may just get it from a cost point of view.

That's an interesting take, Jsul. BB must have seen something that he liked to both keep Wilson on the roster and pay him decent money rather than just make an injury settlement with him and release him. He's the protype big strong safety, but in TC, even to this untrained eye, his coverage skills were close to non-existent.

Given his age, his injury, and the pass first nature of the current game, I have a hard time thinking Wilson can beat out Gregory, even with his faults. When healthy he was a good, but not explosive tackler, and he's light years ahead of Wilson in coverage. Maybe it would be fair to as Gregory to take a million off the top of his salary, but I don't see him being beat out by Wilson.

 

[supafly]

That's an interesting take, Jsul. BB must have seen something that he liked to both keep Wilson on the roster and pay him decent money rather than just make an injury settlement with him and release him. He's the protype big strong safety, but in TC, even to this untrained eye, his coverage skills were close to non-existent.

Given his age, his injury, and the pass first nature of the current game, I have a hard time thinking Wilson can beat out Gregory, even with his faults. When healthy he was a good, but not explosive tackler, and he's light years ahead of Wilson in coverage. Maybe it would be fair to as Gregory to take a million off the top of his salary, but I don't see him being beat out by Wilson.

Ken--do you think there was any chance of A.Wilson (now I have to go back to distinguishing between the 2 Wilson's again, which is a pain in my ass) playing some of that hybrid LB/S role that Belichick has so desperately tried to fill in recent years, particularly with vets?

Understanding and agreeing that his coverage skills were significantly decreased as a straight up/typical pass defending safety, would they still be good enough to allow him to compete for that hybrid role? I would find it hard to believe that he was going to be in our secondary with coverage skills that were that limited, especially since it seems that we've been attempting to go to more of a speedier, rangier, all around safety for both positions, rather than just have one "in the box" safety opposite of McCourty. I think this is obviously due to the heavier passing offenses and the propensity to play more subs overall.

The coverage LB aspect or lack thereof has been something that's been hurting us for quite sometime now, and although it was addressed on some level in the offseason with the drafting of Collins and the retaining of Fletcher, it still has been a glaring weakness for us once again. I believe that we will need to address this weakness yet again, whether that's through the draft/FA/or both.

 

[patfanken]

Sup, I think the role you subscribe for Wilson in your post is exactly what BB had in mind, and is certainly what BB was thinking when he decided to send him to IR rather than release him. As to next year, I wonder about keeping him, as opposed to give the S/LB hybrid role to giving it to Jamie Collins? Just a thought.

Perhaps you keep a Wilson type in that role, if BB decides that Collins' explosive speed off the edge is more important than his coverage skill. At any rate its at least nice to project 2 guys in that possible hybrid role which has been left unfilled for the last several years.

What I worry about is Wilson's age and the affects of his injury. That's a tough combination to overcome for a guy who is speed/quickness challenged to start with.