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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by patfanken, Nov 19, 2012.

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  1. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #91 Jersey

    Lets get started, no preamble necessary:

    1. OK Gronk broke his arm. He's likely going to be gone for a month or so, and that's that. There will be mediots that will question why he was in the game to be hurt, and will try to make some hay throwing out that line of crap. But the bottom line is he's not going to be there for a while and its time for the back ups to step up.

    2. Speaking of back ups stepping up, Julian Edelman finally showed us why life without Wes Welker might just still go on. Perhaps not as well but forget about his punt returns, the 5 catches for 68 yds, with Welker on the field was telling. The key thing for Edelman was that he was getting snaps and looks on a regular basis during a game. That hadn't happened since his rookie year.

    I hope this game is an indication that when THAT happens, he can be a productive receiver in this league. Now lets see if he can stay on the field consistently enough the rest of the way to see if that can happen. Clearly people are going to need to step up to make up for Gronk's absence. Edelman will need to be one of those players.

    3. I am actually more concerned about Chandler Jones' injury that Gronk's. I can't believe nothing is being said about it. What is most worrisome is that he seemed to be walking without a limp coming off the field, yet went into the locker room and never returned. That's not a good sign. Believe me, if we lose Jones, we truly will need become a gambling, blitzing defense. He will be a very hard guy to replace.

    4. When people start tearing down the defense again, please remember that the Colts got 3 extra possessions in the game due to the picks and punt return. That's over 20 extra plays, and over 100 yds of offense in pure 4th quarter garbage time

    5. It was hard to believe that the defense that was on the field in the 2nd and 3rd quarters was the same one that was on the field in the first. The Colts first 3 possessions yielded 2 TDs and a FG, but after that nothing much until that 4th quarter garbage time TD

    6. Andrew Luck DID have some moments that made it clear what all the fuss is about. The TD pass past Talib was a thing of beauty. The 3rd down pass he made with Ninko on his back was an epic play. The TD pass to Hilton in the 4th was a delicate thing of beauty. there is a lot to like about the entire Colts offense....down the road. They are likely to be a force to be reckoned with, very soon

    I think the thing I like the best about him is that he has no fear. He will throw the ball into small windows...and make it happen. I know it will backfire on him from time to time, but the great ones all have that same fearlessness. He made 3 throws in a row in the 3rd quarter, each one was more remarkable than the last. No question the kid is special.

    7. Devin McCourty looked much smoother at S than he did vs the Bills. The play he made saving Talib, was the first time I can recall a Patriot's safety making a play play on a ball on the sideline in over 2 years. It almost brought tears to my eyes. If we can get THAT kind of play out of the safety position CONSISTENTLY, it would be worth moving him from CB on a permanent basis

    However, last night didn't make me any more confident about Arrington's play, and I don't like relying on a rookie who missed most of TC and beyond to be my #2 guy.

    8. Very quietly Dennard and Wilson have racked up 7 picks. That's a pretty pressive total for a pair of rookies who haven't received starter's snaps and 6 more games to go. There are better days ahead for this secondary.

    9. Count be among those who are impressed with Talib...who probably needs a good nickname as much as anyone. Not so much because of the pick 6, but his general coverage. Yes I saw him get beat a few times, but for the most part we got to see some very close coverage on some very fast receivers.

    BTW- we should expect to see him get beat from time to time. I can recall 3 times last night (once the pass was overthrown, once when McCourty saved him, and the Hilton TD) That's that's what happens to guys who play mostly man coverage. Occasionally they get beat. We have to take comfort that most of the time he will have tight coverage on his man, and accept those, hopefully rare occasions when it happens. There is only one Darelle Revis in the league right now. Even the good ones among the rest get beat.

    The bottom line is that as he gets into prime shape and works his way into the defense Talib is going to be a big upgrade to this defense.....and it doesn't hurt that he looks like a real solid tackler as well. It was a great first impression

    10. That thread praising Dante Scarnnechia for another job well done is well deserved. Most teams who lose BOTH their OG's in a single week, don't get the performances by the back ups that the Pats got. Its really scary how consistent he gets them ready. Granted the run blocking could have been better, but that's a story for THIS week.

    Also, this is one of the reasons I think Nate Solder is going to be an all pro LT for a long time. He was having his troubles with Dwight Freeney in the first quarter, drawing 2 holding calls (though one was kinda weak). What's impressive is that after that, he shut him down. Whatever Freeney was doing to him early, he figured it out. This kid is going to keep getting better and better as time goes on and he adds experience and more strength to his raw ability

    11. BB brought in what seemed to be a never ending supply of TE's. In the next month we will get to see how well he did. It will also be interesting to see if Josh stays with the 2 TE set as a base formation, or will we see more 3 Wide groupings like we did last night

    12. Interesting to see how different game plans create different Heroes. Last week Woodhead was a virtual legend in his own time, and this week I don't think he made the stat sheet. Now I suspect we will see multi-threads demanding we get Edelman re-signed while we still can. ;)

    13. With Jones likely out for Thursday, I'll be interested to see who gets off the bench this week, Francis or Bequette? BTW- Scott seemed to provide "some" pressure in relief of Jones. I can recall at least 2 QB hits from him. He's another FA that we will finally see if we get our money's worth on.

    14. The injuries are really starting to pile up. They won't matter much if everyone gets healthy by the playoffs. With both the Ravens and Texans lucking out royally yesterday, getting a bye does not look likely right now. However we still have to get by the Jets and they are catching us at just the right time, coming off a short week with a slew of injuries. What seemed like a romp in the park a few weeks ago, looks more like a dogfight tonight.

    15. I have been among the few voices saying that things are going to start to get better for the Pats defense. So I decided to put my money where my mouth is and on one of my 2 FF teams, I picked up the Pats defense, which was pretty much available in about 100% of leagues. 27 points BABY!. The bad news was that in my other league, my opponent this week had the same idea. OUCH! :D
     
  2. slash83

    slash83 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Nice post as always. As Gronk has held it down without Hernandez, Hernandez has to pay him back while Gronk is out. If he's healthy I know he can deliver.
     
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hopefully Fells and and the other guys will provide enough of the blocking that Gronk did, and a bit of catching while he's out. A more "move" oriented offense with Hernandez-Welker-Lloyd-Edelman-Vereen would be pretty hard to defend. Part of me would like to see the Pats continue to rest Hernandez through the Jets game this week, to give him 2 more weeks off, and bring him back fully rested for the last 5 games of the season. I think we can beat the Dysfunctionals without Gronk and Hernandez, and getting Hernandez 2 more weeks of rest may be worth it. Similarly, resting Gronk for even the rest of the season to get him fully healthy for a playoff run could be a blessing in disguise. He was dominating, but he was also really beat up, and it's possible that this is a good thing in some ways - it will also give his body time to heal up from the general pounding it has taken.

    As I said, a more "move" oriented offense could be very scary. Hernandez, Welker, Edelman, Lloyd, Vereen, Woodhead and Salas could all be used very effectively, especially with an up tempo offense. Love the way they used Welker and Edelman at the same time.

    It's called being cautious. There's no reason to rush Jones back, especially once the game was in hand. Imagine if we had 2 Gronk like injuries in that game? Jones should be back Thursday, and if not, definitely for the Miami game.

    As I've said elsewhere, the secondary will get better, but it will take time. By playoffs, it will be a different looking unit. I'm not nearly as uncomfortable with Dennard as you are, and by playoff time he won't be a "rookie" anymore, as BB likes to say. I've been saying that McCourty is a perfect fit at FS for a while, that Arrington needs to get off the field, and that the Pats need to put Talib and Denanrd outside; yesterday didn't do anything to change my opinion.

    The most common theme during training camp was that this team would go only as far as the OL would allow them to go. That doesn't seem to be the problem so far, even with all the injuries. Solder and Vollmer have been rock solid, and the no-names have been unsung heroes. The running game wasn't as good as usual, but that's a lot to expect with 2 starters out.

    The NFL is a season of attrition. Depth is key. BB understands this as few do. The Pats have invested in depth to a point that some thought absurd (the TE parade, for example). It will be interesting to see how this affects the playoff race over the last 6 weeks of the season. A lot can change, and quickly.
     
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is receiving very little press... not sure how concerned I should be. Trevor Scott, filled in well.

    He is an incredible talent, RGIII and he are two of the best youngest QB's to ever come out...

    Optimistic about Talib, very confident about Dennard and Wilson.. I think the db's could benefit from veteran leadership, not sure if Talib wants to assume that role.

    The second half was pretty good D, and kept this team down.. Reiss did a synopsis on how well Wayne was shut down, which gives real reason for hope.

    Of course, very predictable, the resident contrarian, Ron Borges weighs in and proclaims that TE's should not be blocking on extra points.. this will, unfortunately, be the subject of much of the talk shows today and this week.

    http://www.csnne.com/football-new-e...be-blocking-on-ext?blockID=803705&feedID=3946

     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  5. Batman

    Batman Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Great post as ways Ken.

    1.edleman recovered from a broken arm to be back playing in 4 weeks albeit with a cast on but he put in a hell of an effort even with a broken arm I expect gronk will be similar.

    2. Edleman stepped up big time it's clear our FO wants to keep him as a option based on the welker situation. He's doing a great job o showing us it might be a little easier. I still hope we can resign welker or bring in amendola but I am not afraid of going forward with edleman. I thought he was gonna take his reverse all the way to the house and think he might have had hooman had not been on the ground

    7.if we are gonna be a cover 2 man team great coverage safeties are so important so a guy who played corner and done best in a zone scheme makes mccourty a perfect choice.

    8. Having 2 rookies that are making plays is great both are raw talent but both have talent and ball skills.

    9. Talib is a big physical corner he made several mistakes but he is rusty and in a new system time will do wonders for him in our D.

    10. Scar is amazing he just knows what to do with what guys and how to get them to play up. He has 100% understanding of the oline and that is the best thing a coach can have.

    12. Game plans are so important but in our team you have to be totally selfless or you won't fit what we do. Woodhead is a guy who knows this and understands it he turns up when we need a player to step up he is always there. Him and edleman are 2 of my favourite patriots if BB asked them to go play DT I get te feeling they would do it and give 100% of what they could. They both have that Troy Brown quality to them.
     
  6. 1960Pats

    1960Pats 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    1, 3 & 14 - Injuries are a part of the game. That's one of my favorite sayings.

    2 - If we do lose Welker and replace him with Edelman there'll be a big dropoff at that position. I'm hoping we keep them both.

    4, 5, 7, 8 & 9 - The takeaways by this year's defense are similar to those of 2011. It seems like every year the defense gets much better. This one could be special if they come together at the end.

    6 - I don't think the lack of fear is always a good thing. I thought that was one of the reasons that Bledsoe was so frustrating. He always felt like he could force the ball into places that he shouldn't, many times at the worst point in the game. The same went for Brint Favre.

    Andrew Luck will probably be great, but last night he looked a lot like the other QB they had, but without the happy feet.

    10 - Dante for President. I remember Phil Simms brushing aside Jim Nantz's suggestion that the Pats lacked depth at OL. Simms was right.

    11, 12 & 13 - All teams miss on draft picks, but I can't see how anyone could complain about the picks the Pats have made over the last few years. Start with the greatest draft pick ever, Tommy LomBrady, and go from there.

    15 - I never did get involved with fantasy football. I didn't want to be tied down to having to make choices every week. It's the same reason that I don't run the pick 'em pools anymore. I did finally put in a score for the game day thread this week though, but I was way off at 33-22 Pats.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  7. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thanks for another great post, Ken. I look forward to these.

    I'd like to address this one:

    To my mind, it's more than just Solder. It's the entire defense, and sometimes the offense as well.

    Here's what I see: the defense can morph to be what it needs to be almost all of the time. the first couple of series they often get manhandled, get scored on, etc. But that's about it until "garbage time". Why is that? Because the defense is looking to see what the opponent is doing. HOW they intend to attack, how they are going to try and maneuver on the field into position, etc. Our defense is like a pair of raptors looking at supper. They're holding back, learning all they can, before striking.

    We see it week in and week out. That first quarter is more like a sparring bout than an actual fight. It just takes our guys a couple series to take it all in and develop a way to attack it.

    Sometimes they don't. It happens. the other teams are made up of really good players too. They get paid to try and beat us, and they always have a vote in how things turn out. But I like the way things are going here.

    Thanks again, Ken!

    V/R
     
  8. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle brady plz PatsFans.com Supporter

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    RE: Talib, I was really impressed with his coverage. The first two completions against him he was in perfect position. And this is a guy who has been on a timeout and forced to sit in a corner for a while now.

    I'll take that any day of the week! Loved the fire and aggressiveness our defense showed last week. It's what we need this week too. Sanchez seems to always get a decent completion percentage against our defense. Let's make him uncomfortable back there.

    I too am worried about Chandler Jones but I'm hopeful that he was fine but they decided it wasn't worth risking it. Still - I thought Cunningham did a decent job in backup service.
     
  9. ThatllMoveTheChains!!!

    ThatllMoveTheChains!!! Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Plus the one play quick strike by the offense; yards and TOP are useless stats in this bludgeoning.
     
  10. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Let's get real here Batperson.
    Gronk is no Edelman!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  11. kkpat

    kkpat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Even with Talib, I saw our CBs are standing 10 yards away from the WRs. I thought Press coverage or Man-to-Man means, they stay close to the receiver instead of 10-15 yards away.

    This is the reason we give up 3rd&10 or 3rd&16 so easily.

    Is it our scheme which will stay like this forever? I don't remember we used to be like this when we had Ty Law in the secondary. Can any one comment on it?
     
  12. Nehalem

    Nehalem On the Game Day Roster

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    Remember the reason Edelman started the Arizona game was because of his superior blocking abilities ;)

    Clearly Belichek was planning for the possibility. Edelman will start at TE on Thursday and add to his legend :rocker:
     
  13. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On tv, I distrinctly saw him on the sidelines standing in front of Brady at the start of the 3rd quarter. Anyone who Tivo'd it, can confirm, but he was NOT in the lockerroom at the beginning of the 2nd half. He was there and in full uniform.
     
  14. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You just screwed the pooch for BB's disinformation campaign against the Jets game prep.

    Jets fan!
     
  15. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure about Aqib, but his fanclub could be called The Taliban. ;)
     
  16. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK, call Goodell to burn the tape!
     
  17. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm sure Hernandez can help replace Gronk's pass catching numbers but the hope is Shiancoe/Fells can replace his blocking skills for the run game. Getting Mankins or Connolly back will be huge also. Nice to get the backup guards some reps, but getting Ridley/Vereen/Woodhead room to run is more important.
     
  18. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The coverage varied throughout the game. Sometimes they were in press coverage and others they were in zone. That's why you saw the CBs lining up differently.

    The Pats scheme has always been multifaceted in it's coverages...
     
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This was mentioned by Bedard as well. The Pats clearly chose to NOT have Jones re-enter the game. I wouldn't be surprised to see him miss the Jets game, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him play either.
     
  20. patfanken

    patfanken Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The thing that I found so encouraging was all the different looks and movement they gave the Colts OL. That was quite a departure from previous games. BTW - I'm not sure they Blitzed as much as people think.(Blitzing being defined as sending more than 4) In the end, for a great majority of the time, I think they were still rushing just 4. The only difference is that now those 4 were coming from different angles, not just DE/DT/DT/DE. There was a much better attempt to disguise and confuse. That being said there were markedly more time when they did send 5.
     
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