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I would have been happy with Jackson at 21


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We have nobody else on the roster who can do Faulk's job as a shifty, great hands, 3rd down back.

Nobody. Maroney isn't that guy, plus there's concerns in blitz pickup. Pass isn't that guy, as valuable as he is. Earl Charles isn't that guy, though he may be the closest thing. Evans certainly isn't.

Unless Belichick is planning on removing that aspect from the offense, he stays until Belichick brings in somebody who can do that better.

It's really not rocket science.
 
A quick Insider on Chad Jackson from one of my buddies who goes to UF and obsesses over it. He says that the year before this one Chad had 22.3 yards per catch. Once Meyer brought in his possesion oriented offense and put Jackson in the slot and made him run 8 yard curls ir ruined him. That took away his ability to run across the middle so this last year brought him down to 10.3 yards per game. When I asked him if Chad could run routes, he said Chad is not lazy or a malcontent at all and that he is a great route runner but within Meyer's system, Meyer simply refused to take advanatge of his skills. When Chad lined up on the outside with Zook, he toar the league apart. I know BB will make sure to maximize Chad's potential. Just thought I'd pass the evaluation along because myself insluded was neverous we had another Bethel on our hands.
 
BelichickFan said:
Faulk's fumble against Denver was on his 9th touch of the game. He's a playmaker but he's a gamekiller too. It kills me to say it because he can be so good, but . . . well you know.
Faulk also fumbled a couple of times against Pitt that almost cost the pats the game.
 
flutie2phelan said:
I am supremely confident BB will accept that ... because he is a highly rational man ...
and because blowing your hamstring while you're running the ball
is a once-in-a-career occurence!
(But Patrick had better hope that the incident didn't close HIS career! :) )


You are rationalizing for Pass, as many have done. He did not, by any means, BLOW his hamstring. That injury requires a lengthy recovery for a truly torn hamstring.

Pass missed only two games. He was injured in the 10/30 game against Buffalo, missed the Indianapolis and Miami games and then returned for the Tampa Bay game.

There is no way I will EVER believe that his injury against Buffalo was serious. You don't return in two weeks from a serious hammy injury.

The fact is that Pass fumbled the ball untouched to grab at what surely couldn't have been worse than a TWEAKED HAMSTRING. This while playing the same sport that Ed McCaffery was playing when he had BOTH BONES IN HIS LOWER LEG BROKEN and did not fumble on MNF. And Ed got HIT directly after catching. The pass was still a completion.

It's not even imagineable. If Paddy'd been IR'ed I'd get it, but he was playing in the third game after his injury. Inexcuseable. Football is a game about pain tolerance, he simply doesn't have it.

The longer I've thought about it, the more I can't believe it.
 
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My two cents about Faulk and Pass (and Evans) is that roster decisions will have more to do with what Maroney and Mills can contribute this year, and less with BB "giving up" on fumble-prone or injury-prone players. Both Faulk and Pass have skills that BB values and the current offense exploits. I agree with some other posters that we are going to have ringside seats at the continuing evolution of the offense into a multi-weapon, flexible, "damned if you do, damned if you don't" offense that leverages TB's intelligence and recognition.

Do you get the feeling that Corey and Maroney are going to make an incredible first and second down duo this year? And third and short will be owned by Corey. But third and 4 or longer will be where the roster drama will play out. I doubt it's Maroney's role in 06 and I doubt it's Mills. So, I think Kevin is safe this year, but could lose the role in 07.

My guess for 06 would be Dillon, Maroney, Faulk, Mills...Pass and Evans go barring injury. The Pats won't carry more than 4 RBs.

Was there a pure FB drafted late? Too much new data!!
 
Are there actually people on this board who would keep Evans instead of Pass?

I'd like to hear the reasoning.
 
If I had to chose between...

Kevin or Patrick...I would keep Kevin. He has cost us at times with some fumbles(like the Redskins game 2 years ago) but he adds a reliable 3rd down passing situation option to the team. And I always get pumped when he makes a key play for us like against Pittsburg last year on that game ending drive...one handed catch and made a cut to make the Steeler LB miss him...sweet.
 
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AndyJohnson said:
And as I watched the clock tick, I came to the realization that BB was not going to pick Lawson.
BBs board seems very different than everyone elses. We have now seen:
Graham
Wastson
Maroney
Wilfork (there is no way that it was needed to move Warren off NT)
Mankins


as guys that really were not need that BB saw value and pounced.
I think your definition of "need" needs to be revised some. On a good team, you can argue that no position is really a position of "need". It comes down to where can the team be upgraded best, based on the available players. That's what "need" is. Likely BB's evaluation of one or more of the young LBs on the Pats, whom we haven't been able to see in action much, convinced him that drafting an LB wouldn't be as much of an improvement as many of us were thinking. Probably TBC or another young LB is coming along much better than most of us think, in BB's eyes.

I'd argue that all of those players you list above were "needs" to a degree. Last year improving our OL was a big need, especially after the recent departures of Andruzzi and Woody. Mankins was a clear upgrade. BB likes running two TE sets with TEs who can both block and play a strong role in the passing game as receivers. He loves TEs who are hard for LBs to matchup against - so both Graham and Watson (and David Thomas this year) are needs in that they can improve the team.

A NT was a huge need after the departure of Ted washington, so Wilfork was definitely a need pick.

For Maroney, BB is aware of father time, and felt a need to get younger at the RB position. He seems to prefer being able to bring in young players before the departure of the older veterans when possible, to gradually work them into the system. Many of us saw RB as a need, although many (including myself) thought LB was a bigger need - but I'm guessing that the development of one of the younger players has convinced BB otherwise.

In the future in predicting BB drafts, I think the answer will always be the guy he has rated higher than the consensus, or the guy who plays a positin other teams did not grab up.
I think those elements come into play, but I think if you try to narrow his decision making down to any one or two elements, you'll be wrong. He seems to base his decision on who he can get that will improve the team the most - which is influenced by team needs, overall team philosophy, near-future needs, individual player ratings, etc.. What positions other teams are drafting influences who is available, so certainly has to come into play.

Of course he also saw NO value when traded the pick that Bmore used for Boller, and ended up with extra picks that he used to find the value he saw.
I don't think that's the case. I think he either wanted Wilson, or had a few CBs rated the same, and figured he could trade back and still get one of them.

Finally, does anyone think Faulk may be on the way out? I have a suspision that his fumble in the playoff game was his ticket out of town. Its no surprise to me that when we lost because a RB and KR fumbled within a minute of each other causing a very close game to turn into a not so close one, that BB picks a guy he calls a great KR and he also happens to be aRB who will need at least backup carries.
IMO, the biggest "mistake" in that game, as far as costing us, was Brady throwing an INT in the endzone that was returned almost for a TD. Essentially a 14 point swing. Do you think Brady is on the way out of town because of that one play? I don't think BB is the type of person who will evaluate a player based entirely on one play.
 
AndyJohnson said:
OK, not just the one fumble. But when you add a pattern of fumbling, a recent run of injuries, not quite fitting what we want as a #2, not being used to return kicks for a long time, plus age, and the fact that we just drafted a RB #1, it starts to add up.

My point was just that the fumble which was a a terrible time, which he has a history of, and which is unforgivable on such a play, may have made drafting RB more attractive to BB.

I think, overall, BB would say that Faulk's best seasons have been in the '03'-'05 timeframe. But his prime years are more likely behind him than ahead of him, and sooner or later we'll need to replace him, upgrade the speed at the position, etc.

But I honestly think that one fumble, regardless of when it happened, isn't going to influence BB one bit. You think he's going to draft a QB to replace Brady because that pick to Bailey was a horrible one (and it was)?

BB and crew make decisions based on a lengthy analysis of a player's performance. One play is just that, one play.
 
dryheat44 said:
We have nobody else on the roster who can do Faulk's job as a shifty, great hands, 3rd down back.

Nobody. Maroney isn't that guy, plus there's concerns in blitz pickup. Pass isn't that guy, as valuable as he is. Earl Charles isn't that guy, though he may be the closest thing. Evans certainly isn't.

Unless Belichick is planning on removing that aspect from the offense, he stays until Belichick brings in somebody who can do that better.

It's really not rocket science.


Agreed on all counts.
 
Faulk may very well be the best pure 3rd down back in the NFL. Sure he has had some fumbles in the past, but his play making ability is incredible.
 
Perhaps:

RB: Dillon, Maroney, Faulk and Pass

TE: Graham, Watson, Thomas

Plus, Mills as the H Back

If I'm not mistaken (please let me know), that is one more roster spot for RB's and TE's than we had last year, but if Thomas can Long Snap, then that could work well (sorry Lonie). I prefer Pass, Thomas and Mills to Paxton (*as long as Thomas can be a dependable LS) since each of them can do multiple tasks. Given the injury history of this team, this could be very important.

This, of course would help roster-wise if Thomas can LS

I believe Pass is still improving year-to-year and we can ease Mills into his spot over the next two seasons.
 
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big mike said:
I think your definition of "need" needs to be revised some. On a good team, you can argue that no position is really a position of "need". It comes down to where can the team be upgraded best, based on the available players. That's what "need" is. Likely BB's evaluation of one or more of the young LBs on the Pats, whom we haven't been able to see in action much, convinced him that drafting an LB wouldn't be as much of an improvement as many of us were thinking. Probably TBC or another young LB is coming along much better than most of us think, in BB's eyes.

I'd argue that all of those players you list above were "needs" to a degree. Last year improving our OL was a big need, especially after the recent departures of Andruzzi and Woody. Mankins was a clear upgrade. BB likes running two TE sets with TEs who can both block and play a strong role in the passing game as receivers. He loves TEs who are hard for LBs to matchup against - so both Graham and Watson (and David Thomas this year) are needs in that they can improve the team.

A NT was a huge need after the departure of Ted washington, so Wilfork was definitely a need pick.

For Maroney, BB is aware of father time, and felt a need to get younger at the RB position. He seems to prefer being able to bring in young players before the departure of the older veterans when possible, to gradually work them into the system. Many of us saw RB as a need, although many (including myself) thought LB was a bigger need - but I'm guessing that the development of one of the younger players has convinced BB otherwise.

I couldn't agree more with this post. Most of the time I tkae AJ's posts as gospel, but this one didn't speak to me. I also think Faulk remains a significant asset to this team - a hugely clutch player (much of the time).
 
AndyJohnson said:
And as I watched the clock tick, I came to the realization that BB was not going to pick Lawson.
BBs board seems very different than everyone elses. We have now seen:
Graham
Wastson
Maroney
Wilfork (there is no way that it was needed to move Warren off NT)
Mankins


as guys that really were not need that BB saw value and pounced.

In the future in predicting BB drafts, I think the answer will always be the guy he has rated higher than the consensus, or the guy who plays a positin other teams did not grab up.QUOTE]


I absolutely agree with you Andy and I almost didn't even bother making a mock because of it. If we knew where there would be a run, we would have better success at picking. But, even at that we would need to know the exact point of the next run and/or the next player available per position before the next dropoff. Belichick correctly picked Jackson where he saw the WR run was ready to begin.

Belichick saw dropoff after Maroney, Jackson, Thomas and Mills. A check of each position pool shows that also. Not so much a dropoof in talent as there is a dropoff in skill set value of the player to the Patriots.
 
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