I want teams to fear our defense

[patsfan55]

A defensive player needs to have an air of agression about him. He needs to play in control, but remain nasty when playing.

Controlled chaos
All the truly feared defenders have it, and all the great defenses have a few guys that have this.
Back when our defense was feared we had some guys that had it:
Willie
Milloy
Rodney (pre-injuries)
Bryan Cox
Ted Johnson
Big Sey 93 (pre-injuries)
Bruschi (pre-stroke)
Geno Wilson (first 2 yrs)

Right now I'd say none of our guys truly have it, Mayo and Meriweather are showing signs of having it.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Uhh, Vrabel is in no shape or form a finesse player.

I'm sure that Bruschi is too...

Don't forget AD...

 

[mayoclinic]

Controlled chaos
All the truly feared defenders have it, and all the great defenses have a few guys that have this.

Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, James Farrior, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed all have it.

We need at least 1 LB and 1 DB who can bring it, along with Mayo and Meriweather developing it and Thomas showing it more consistently, in order to re-find our mojo.

 

[jays52]

Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, James Farrior, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed all have it.

We need at least 1 LB and 1 DB who can bring it, along with Mayo and Meriweather developing it and Thomas showing it more consistently, in order to re-find our mojo.

You seem to have a tremendous amount of knowledge about the draft. Any thoughts on players that would be available that could bring this kind of play?

 

[JMarr]

Controlled chaos
All the truly feared defenders have it, and all the great defenses have a few guys that have this.

Right now I'd say none of our guys truly have it, Mayo and Meriweather are showing signs of having it.

I agree with the first statement, but I think you're forgetting the big man in the middle.

 

[mayoclinic]

You seem to have a tremendous amount of knowledge about the draft. Any thoughts on players that would be available that could bring this kind of play?

I don't think I have any special knowledge ... others probably have much more. Herzlich from BC seems like that kind of player, though he's staying in school. Aaron Curry is very intense, but will almost certainly go top 10. Maualuga is intense, but I doubt he has enough control to go with his chaos.

I tend to like very high motor players like Connor Barwin, Cliff Sintim, Paul Kruger, and DJ Moore over possibly more athletic players who seem more inconsistent (both in play and in motivation) such as Michael Johnson, Tyson Jackson and Vontae Davis. Players with an inconsistent motor and "unlimited potential" (like Vernon Ghloston last year) scare me. But I'm no expert.

 

[RayClay]

Agreed.

We've gotten much better value out of high defensive picks when we've used them.

Our offense has come together well, if we need to patch there get some affordable FA or low round picks.

Oline isn't really offense (skill positions) in that sense.

 

[patsfan55]

Troy Polamalu, James Harrison, James Farrior, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, and Ed Reed all have it.

We need at least 1 LB and 1 DB who can bring it, along with Mayo and Meriweather developing it and Thomas showing it more consistently, in order to re-find our mojo.

Don't forget about Lamar Woodley, a guy many of us in here (yours truly included, but especially michigan dave) wanted. Of course had we taken Woodley with our second pick in the first round we never would have gotten Mayo.

 

[SVN]

I don't care if teams fear our defense. I want defense disciplined enough to close out a game when the honus is on them to make a stop.

Discipline is what I am hopeful of.

our Defensive scheme is much different from balt or pitt so dont expectthe pats to be become these aggressive pass rushining type Ds. BB likes to play sound coverage and disguising with minimal people used to pressure in order to create confusion and generate takeaways or sacks because of coverage.
you will never see the pats blitz like the steelers all the time

 

[SVN]

Don't forget about Lamar Woodley, a guy many of us in here (yours truly included, but especially michigan dave) wanted. Of course had we taken Woodley with our second pick in the first round we never would have gotten Mayo.

its a different scheme in pitt than pats so not sure how he wouldve played here. linebackers in pitt are like RBs in denver .

 

[ausbacker]

But, here's the thing: we don't have one.
How did the 2006-2007 season end?
How did the 2007-2008 season end?

With our defense unable to make the stop when needed.

Exactly right! I'd like to see the team with discipline to make sure everyone is accounted for on the field. Not giving up big point scoring plays each game or blowing opportunities to close out the game.

Called it discipline, call it aggressive play calling, but something needs to be done.

 

[Patdown93]

Does anyone remember how aggressive our defense was when Mangini was D Coordinator?

 

[Patjew]

Does anyone remember how aggressive our defense was when Mangini was D Coordinator?

Seemingly more aggressive but also more young in key areas (though experienced throughout) - and more talented.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I'm watching the AFC Championship and how physical these teams are playing. The blitzes and pressure these defenses create is amazing.

I hope as our younger players mature our defense becomes as physical as ever.

don't even bother. i said on this board before the 2008 season that we need to get more physical on defense. people here started to criticize me and said i made no sense. All i heard was the "we don't have to get more physical. we were 2:39 away from winning the super bowl" garbage/

i also firmly believe we need to improve our secondary first and foremost. When I see troy polamalu make such an impact on Pitt, it saddens me because we don't have anyone who can do that here. We need a leader in the secondary.

 

[Patjew]

don't even bother. i said on this board before the 2008 season that we need to get more physical on defense. people here started to criticize me and said i made no sense. All i heard was the "we don't have to get more physical. we were 2:39 away from winning the super bowl" garbage/

i also firmly believe we need to improve our secondary first and foremost. When I see troy polamalu make such an impact on Pitt, it saddens me because we don't have anyone who can do that here. We need a leader in the secondary.

Way to revise history. Please dig up that thread and see how much sense it makes. And find the one where you knew that the two most physical guys on D would end up on IR this year.

 

[Patjew]

don't even bother. i said on this board before the 2008 season that we need to get more physical on defense. people here started to criticize me and said i made no sense. All i heard was the "we don't have to get more physical. we were 2:39 away from winning the super bowl" garbage/

Enjoy the "garbage": http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...0/87232-pats-chargers-replay-nfl-network.html

i also firmly believe we need to improve our secondary first and foremost. When I see troy polamalu make such an impact on Pitt, it saddens me because we don't have anyone who can do that here. We need a leader in the secondary.

Brandon says, "please be patient".

I think you're focussing on the wrong position in the secondary.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

I think the operative concept is not toughness or softness, it's agression. I for one remember a few years ago when this defense was flying around smacking players for 60 minutes. Wilson was a concussive hitter, Harrison was Harrison, Bruschi was smacking people in the mouth and taking the football from them, Ted Johnson was breaking guards helmets, hell, even Samuel was laying lumber in playoff games. There was an air of intimidation and intensity around this defense in big games. Remember when this defense would swarm to the ball? Remember the emotion of the 03 game against Indy? Remember how impressive that level of physicality was? It seems that is lacking lately.

Harrison still tries to lay wood, but he's arriving to the football a step or two late. Bruschi just isn't anywhere near as explosive a player as he once was. I think James Sanders is the poorest hitting safety I've seen in a while. Meriweather tries to knock helmets off, but somehow seems to lack the momentum behind his pops. It seems that this team lacks the overwhelming intensity it once had.

I understand that defense isn't all about intensity or ferocity, but it is the trademark of a top-flight defense. Anyone who has played on the defensive side of the ball and really loved hitting has had a contempt for offensive players. A defensive player needs to have an air of agression about him. He needs to play in control, but remain nasty when playing. Most offensive players don't have the heart for a 60 minute street fight. It's critical to set the tone early with the specialists. Specialists as a generality are soft by nature, they shy from contact. If they feel that they are in for a war, they will often loose their desire to compete.

Scheme is great, in fact I think that is what defines a great defense. That said, a defense needs the players capable of playing with a screw loose. A good defensive player takes pride in making a tremendous hit. It's like hitting a homerun; you line up the opponent, drop your hips, explode from the balls of your feet though your hips, see a blinding white flash and feel no impact. You look around and your opponent is sprawled on the turf, momentarily motionless. That is the greatest feeling in football, and this team needs more of it.

This post works for me

I don't understand D assessments saying we lack discipline; the Pats had the fewest penalties in the league-how much more disciplined can you get. JMO but maybe there's a correlation between that stat and the perceived lack of aggression. Not saying discipline isn't essential because nobody wants to mess up and lose due to mistakes obviously, but experience and confidence is what allows players to play with a certain amount of abandon yet remain controlled. Rodney Harrison was a master at this-he'd hit and hit hard but he knew what he was doing. Same with Bru.

I hope as our rookies gain confidence and experience that they'll play with control but also with aggression. It seems the sport took a turn towards finesse the first time Na-Polian whined about the Pats' D being too aggressive Finesse teams like the Colts seemed to be the buzz but look at them now. Watching the game last night made me wonder if maybe the game will start moving back towards...well...football

 

[Dagg]

We NEED SPEED badly.

Anyone see how fast Woodley and Harrison are on the edge?

or

Anyone watch DRC close on the deep route to Desean Jackson (who is fast is in his own right).

We need speed!!!!

 

[CrazyDave]

I believe that next year's D will be quite improved, and possibly feared.
A bunch of youth was injected into the D the last 2 years, and another year in the system will prove to be very beneficial to the younger guys.
I also believe that we draft a DB and an OLB with 2 of our first 3 picks ( OT being the other).
I know, we don't draft for need blah blah blah...
I guess what I'm tring to say is that I think we are only a player or 2 away from being a serious D.
Improved pass rush would go a long way towards that.

 

[dhamz]

I don't think the D is as physical as it once was. Teams used to get beat up when they played the Pats. That isn't the case anymore. It is not the scheme. It is the players.

The D line is as physical as ever. The LBs and DBs are not. Bruschi and Vrabel aren't the guys they used to be. There is no LB who plays the run like Ted Johnson. Willie Mac was as physical as they come - just ask Marshall Faulk. Rodney and Wilson used to be a huge hitting combo in the Super Bowl years. Ty Law was an extremely physical corner. The secondary doesn't have those guys right now.

Those physical playmakers who made the D what it was are either gone or nowere near the players they once were. There are holes to fill in those areas. Thomas is an answer when healthy. Mayo is off to a great start. Time will tell on some of the other young linebackers and secondary guys. I'd expect more moves to strengthen those areas this offseason.