I want teams to fear our defense

[BradfordPatsFan]

Say what you will, when the Ravens and Steelers get their hands on your qb, he is going down.

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

The Pats defense isn't good enough to be close to the best.

The front line is fairly good.

Linebackers are old and slow. Mayo is promising though.

Safeties are average at best.

Cornerbacks are teh suck.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not suggesting an undisciplined team playing with emotion. That was the Ravens last year. Stupid mistakes and penalties.

I am suggesting that we have become somewhat softer on defense than we used to be, and less intimidating. I don't call giving up all those third and long and red zone points because we had no pressure "disciplined". I'd like to see us become more attacking, aggressive, disruptive, and intimidating without giving up discipline. There's something to be said for opposing QBs knowing they are going to be running for their life all day, and opposing RBs and WRs knowing that they are going to take a beating every time they touch the ball. It leads to offensive mistakes, penalties, and turnovers. It's not a subsitute for discipline; it should be a complement to it.

 

[DefenseRules]

I just watched Polamalu make a play that I haven't seen from our defensive secondary in a long time.

 

[slash83]

So if you play with fire and emotion you will scare nobody?

Eh, whatever. The Patriots' soft, emotionless defense has more Super Bowls to its credit this decade than the Ravens' and Steelers' combined.

Im not calling the pats defense soft or emotionless calm down cool guy, im saying without any bs evidence or what you want imo the pitts and baltimores d plays with more intensity and fire.

 

[Patjew]

No doubt that some of the fire went out of the D when #37 went down.

 

[Patdown93]

I'm not suggesting an undisciplined team playing with emotion. That was the Ravens last year. Stupid mistakes and penalties.

I am suggesting that we have become somewhat softer on defense than we used to be, and less intimidating. I don't call giving up all those third and long and red zone points because we had no pressure "disciplined". I'd like to see us become more attacking, aggressive, disruptive, and intimidating without giving up discipline. There's something to be said for opposing QBs knowing they are going to be running for their life all day, and opposing RBs and WRs knowing that they are going to take a beating every time they touch the ball. It leads to offensive mistakes, penalties, and turnovers. It's not a subsitute for discipline; it should be a complement to it.

This reminds me of when we held the Colts to 3 points in the playoffs in 2004. We were physical and aggressive. We roughed them up, had loads of pressure, and had turnovers.

I think we'll get there though. With the continued development of a defensive team made with a core of Wilfork, Warren, Mayo, and Meriweather.

 

[slash83]

No doubt that some of the fire went out of the D when #37 went down.

Exactly, im not saying the players suck or have no heart some defenses play with more intensity and fire and want to knock there opposing offenses heads off, I just didnt see that from the Pats d this year. Bash me call me a fake fan say what you want but thats my take.

 

[Patjew]

This reminds me of when we held the Colts to 3 points in the playoffs in 2004. We were physical and aggressive. We roughed them up, had loads of pressure, and had turnovers.

I think we'll get there though. With the continued development of a defensive team made with a core of Wilfork, Warren, Mayo, and Meriweather.

Maybe it's not as easy for the young guys to play with so much "fire" b/c they're concentrating so hard on what and where they're supposed to be. Once that becomes second nature I think we'll see more emotion/intimidation/whatever out of guys like Mayo and BM and the other young fellers. Actually, I think it's starting already. Just part of the transition to a younger D.

 

[Patdown93]

Maybe it's not as easy for the young guys to play with so much "fire" b/c they're concentrating so hard on what and where they're supposed to be. Once that becomes second nature I think we'll see more emotion/intimidation/whatever out of guys like Mayo and BM and the other young fellers. Actually, I think it's starting already. Just part of the transition to a younger D.

Yup. I think we saw some of it this year with the improved play of Meriweather. Whether it be his interceptions or his sacks, he's getting there.

 

[mac]

The passsive scheme does not help, but the Pats have almost exclusively finesse players on defense (except Wilfork and Meriwether). Mayo had a good year but he is a finesse guy. Vrabel, finesse. Guyton, finesse. Thomas, despite his size, is not a power player. Part of the issue may be the Pats emphasis on character guys. Of the real hitters in the NFL, many have charcter issues because you cannot turn that crazed energy on and off with a switch. The Pats D is basically a collection of boy-scout types, so the team tries to win with patience and tactics. As time passes, the team's D may become more like the Colts since speed is needed while playing on turf. The turf, by the way, may have started to Pats D downslide.

 

[Deus Irae]

The passsive scheme does not help, but the Pats have almost exclusively finesse players on defense (except Wilfork and Meriwether). Mayo had a good year but he is a finesse guy. Vrabel, finesse. Guyton, finesse. Thomas, despite his size, is not a power player. Part of the issue may be the Pats emphasis on character guys. Of the real hitters in the NFL, many have charcter issues because you cannot turn that crazed energy on and off with a switch. The Pats D is basically a collection of boy-scout types, so the team tries to win with patience and tactics. As time passes, the team's D may become more like the Colts since speed is needed while playing on turf. The turf, by the way, may have started to Pats D downslide.

In his prime, Bruschi used to beat the tar out of opponents, as did Vrabel.

 

[JackBauer]

The passsive scheme does not help, but the Pats have almost exclusively finesse players on defense (except Wilfork and Meriwether). Mayo had a good year but he is a finesse guy. Vrabel, finesse. Guyton, finesse. Thomas, despite his size, is not a power player. Part of the issue may be the Pats emphasis on character guys. Of the real hitters in the NFL, many have charcter issues because you cannot turn that crazed energy on and off with a switch. The Pats D is basically a collection of boy-scout types, so the team tries to win with patience and tactics. As time passes, the team's D may become more like the Colts since speed is needed while playing on turf. The turf, by the way, may have started to Pats D downslide.

Uhh, Vrabel is in no shape or form a finesse player.

 

[SeanBruschi54]

We need more young fast hard hitting LB's and a dominating young SS. Power and force up the middle changes entire games.

 

[Tunescribe]

I concur with the OP, but, part of the issue is the Pats don't run a penetrating/attacking defense. I think the 3-4 contain scheme has something to do with this. Add the lack of shutdown corners and you have that proverbial "bend but don't break" style of play. It's worked in the past with stronger DBs and healthy LBs, but rarely has this defense really pounded on other teams. The fact New England didn't score a defensive touchdown or safety this season is pretty telling, I think.

The turf, by the way, may have started to Pats D downslide.

Not sure about that, but I think it has helped the Pats passing game.

 

[mayoclinic]

The passsive scheme does not help, but the Pats have almost exclusively finesse players on defense (except Wilfork and Meriwether). Mayo had a good year but he is a finesse guy. Vrabel, finesse. Guyton, finesse. Thomas, despite his size, is not a power player. Part of the issue may be the Pats emphasis on character guys. Of the real hitters in the NFL, many have charcter issues because you cannot turn that crazed energy on and off with a switch. The Pats D is basically a collection of boy-scout types, so the team tries to win with patience and tactics. As time passes, the team's D may become more like the Colts since speed is needed while playing on turf. The turf, by the way, may have started to Pats D downslide.

I'm not sure I agree with that. Guyton seems a bit of a finesse guy, but I think Mayo and Thomas can be quite physical. Thomas' manhandling of Favre in the first Jets game was plenty physical. Vrabel and Bruschi have never been "boy scout types". We were quite physical in 2003-2004, and we used that physicality to intimidate the Colts (and rattle Manning into a bunch of mistakes) and to outslug the physical Titans and Steelers in the AFCC games.

I think that the scheme under Pees has been too finesse oriented. We need to be more smash-mouth, and cultivate that mentality. Rodney was obviously great at that. Meriweather shows signs of having that attitude. As he and Mayo get more comfortable with the D and more instinctive I hope that they will be able to bring it on more. We clearly need some nasty, physical players who can play within our disciplined scheme, particularly at the LB and S positions.

 

[patsfan55]

I don't care if teams fear our defense. I want defense disciplined enough to close out a game when the honus is on them to make a stop.

Discipline is what I am hopeful of.

But, here's the thing: we don't have one.
How did the 2006-2007 season end?
How did the 2007-2008 season end?

With our defense unable to make the stop when needed.

 

[jays52]

I think the operative concept is not toughness or softness, it's agression. I for one remember a few years ago when this defense was flying around smacking players for 60 minutes. Wilson was a concussive hitter, Harrison was Harrison, Bruschi was smacking people in the mouth and taking the football from them, Ted Johnson was breaking guards helmets, hell, even Samuel was laying lumber in playoff games. There was an air of intimidation and intensity around this defense in big games. Remember when this defense would swarm to the ball? Remember the emotion of the 03 game against Indy? Remember how impressive that level of physicality was? It seems that is lacking lately.

Harrison still tries to lay wood, but he's arriving to the football a step or two late. Bruschi just isn't anywhere near as explosive a player as he once was. I think James Sanders is the poorest hitting safety I've seen in a while. Meriweather tries to knock helmets off, but somehow seems to lack the momentum behind his pops. It seems that this team lacks the overwhelming intensity it once had.

I understand that defense isn't all about intensity or ferocity, but it is the trademark of a top-flight defense. Anyone who has played on the defensive side of the ball and really loved hitting has had a contempt for offensive players. A defensive player needs to have an air of agression about him. He needs to play in control, but remain nasty when playing. Most offensive players don't have the heart for a 60 minute street fight. It's critical to set the tone early with the specialists. Specialists as a generality are soft by nature, they shy from contact. If they feel that they are in for a war, they will often loose their desire to compete.

Scheme is great, in fact I think that is what defines a great defense. That said, a defense needs the players capable of playing with a screw loose. A good defensive player takes pride in making a tremendous hit. It's like hitting a homerun; you line up the opponent, drop your hips, explode from the balls of your feet though your hips, see a blinding white flash and feel no impact. You look around and your opponent is sprawled on the turf, momentarily motionless. That is the greatest feeling in football, and this team needs more of it.

 

[mayoclinic]

But, here's the thing: we don't have one.
How did the 2006-2007 season end?
How did the 2007-2008 season end?

With our defense unable to make the stop when needed.

Agreed. How did we miss out on the playoffs in 2008-2009? With our defense unable to make the stop on 3rd and 15 against the Jets and unable to stop Indy.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think the operative concept is not toughness or softness, it's agression. I for one remember a few years ago when this defense was flying around smacking players for 60 minutes. Wilson was a concussive hitter, Harrison was Harrison, Bruschi was smacking people in the mouth and taking the football from them, Ted Johnson was breaking guards helmets, hell, even Samuel was laying lumber in playoff games. There was an air of intimidation and intensity around this defense in big games. Remember when this defense would swarm to the ball? Remember the emotion of the 03 game against Indy? Remember how impressive that level of physicality was? It seems that is lacking lately.

Harrison still tries to lay wood, but he's arriving to the football a step or two late. Bruschi just isn't anywhere near as explosive a player as he once was. I think James Sanders is the poorest hitting safety I've seen in a while. Meriweather tries to knock helmets off, but somehow seems to lack the momentum behind his pops. It seems that this team lacks the overwhelming intensity it once had.

I understand that defense isn't all about intensity or ferocity, but it is the trademark of a top-flight defense. Anyone who has played on the defensive side of the ball and really loved hitting has had a contempt for offensive players. A defensive player needs to have an air of agression about him. He needs to play in control, but remain nasty when playing. Most offensive players don't have the heart for a 60 minute street fight. It's critical to set the tone early with the specialists. Specialists as a generality are soft by nature, they shy from contact. If they feel that they are in for a war, they will often loose their desire to compete.

Scheme is great, in fact I think that is what defines a great defense. That said, a defense needs the players capable of playing with a screw loose. A good defensive player takes pride in making a tremendous hit. It's like hitting a homerun; you line up the opponent, drop your hips, explode from the balls of your feet though your hips, see a blinding white flash and feel no impact. You look around and your opponent is sprawled on the turf, momentarily motionless. That is the greatest feeling in football, and this team needs more of it.

What he said.