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I thought these things only happened in the South!?!

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Wolfpack, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I thought this sort of activity only took place in the mountains of Tennessee and West Virginia, not in the hallowed halls of the Ivy League. :confused:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...t_accused_of_bedding_young_relative_for_.html

    Columbia professor is charged with incest, accused of bedding young relative for 3 years

    A popular Columbia professor was charged Thursday with incest - accused of a sick sex relationship with a female relative, prosecutors said.

    Political science Prof. David Epstein, 46, bedded the young woman over a three-year period ending last year, according to court papers.

    Epstein, who specializes in American politics and voting rights, has taught at Harvard and Stanford and often is quoted by news organizations. He also has blogged on The Huffington Post.


    This begs a few questions that I challenge the left leaning members in here to answer: Is this a disgusting, perverse activity? Or is it something "natural" that society should learn to tolerate and accept?

    Assuming the article is correct when it says the relationship was consensual and both were adults, should this guy go to jail? Should his partner? For that matter, how can one participant be a perpetrator and the other be a victim when both were adults and it was a consensual activity? Where are the feminists?!!

    Suppose hypothetically the relationship was still ongoing. Should these two lovebirds be allowed to marry? Why or why not?
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  2. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    No link -- how old is she? what kind of "relatives" are they?

    By the way, I think your mindset on government and the law is very clearly demonstrated in the way you phrase the question: Is this a disgusting, perverse activity? Or is it something "natural" that society should learn to tolerate and accept?

    It's not up to society to accept actions, even those many people may deem "perverse" or "disgusting." Laws shouldn't be put in place to prevent actions some people consider "disgusting." Laws should protect people's rights.
  3. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I have edited the link into the post and I apologize for that oversight. The article does not give those specifics, but why would they matter? Are some relatives OK to bed, but others aren't? As for how old she is, it says she is an adult. Beyond that, would it matter if she was 19 compared to 45?
    Don't be so sure of yourself when you assume you know my answers to those same questions. I'll gladly share them with you if you but answer them yourself.
    I notice you've responded to my post, but you haven't actually answered any of my questions.

    Is this a perverse activity? Should he go to jail? Should his partner? Should they be allowed to marry?
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    No worries. I'll check it out.


    3rd cousin versus sister? 22 year old versus 12 year old? step-something versus son? Yes, I think specifics matter.

    "OK" can mean a lot things -- there are things I may view as not OK, but that I think should be legal.


    Fair enough.


    Right, I didn't answer the questions because there was information missing that I consider very important.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Funny, it doesn't say what the relationship between the professor and woman is. For instance, in many states it's legal for first cousins to marry.

    State laws and cousin marriage | Cousin Marriage Resources

    I think the relationship is weird, but until we know exactly what the relationship is, it's hard to say how inappropriate it is.
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    David Epstein Incest Charges: Columbia Professor Charged With Sleeping With Daughter

    Whoa. This is very f*cked up.

    I think consenting adults usually should be free to do what they want, but unless I hear some compelling arguments to the contrary, I think this needs to be illegal (as it is), for 2 reasons (at least?): (i) even when the child's an adult, there's a power and relationship that could be exploited and (ii) there are health consequences for any child they might have (unless that's a myth, bu I don't think it is).
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If it's his daughter, then that is screwed up, and it makes me wonder what sort of abuses occurred before she was of legal age.
  8. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Fair enough. In fact I think I read somewhere that Kate Middleton is Prince Williams' 14th cousin, thrice removed or something like that. Oh those crazy royals! :D
  9. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Interesting how it is allowed in the liberal northeast (except NH) and in California, while some (but certainly not all) of the south/southeast forbids it.
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I have often said the law shouldn't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors. But let me clarify what is meant by "consenting adults." Obviously "adults" means no children. And "consenting" means they have to be of sound mind; for example a mentally challenged individual - even an adult - cannot "consent" to sexual relations. There would also have to be no coercion, threats, drugs or intimidation or anything like that.

    But now as far as the law is concerned, should it be legal? I am honestly of two minds on the matter. While I certainly find it a disgusting and perverse, and I would never knowingly keep company with anyone who engaged in such activity, that doesn't necessarily mean it should be illegal. Yes there's the risk of an adult setting the groundwork with the child relative at a young age, but that can happen even between non-relatives. Celine Dion was 12 years old when she first met her business manager, who was 38 at the time. So obviously he had a position of authority with her. They eventually married and remain together to this day. While I consider that more than just a little bizarre, I don't find it something which the law should forbid (and yes I know they are Canadians, but I am just using it as an example).

    The children aspect is a very legitimate concern. You're correct that it's not an myth that such couplings are more likely to produce birth defects. IIRC, the reason is there is a higher chance of birth defects because relatives are more likely to share the same defective genes. Those types of genes tend to be recessive so under normal circumstances, it is safe to have children since your partner would likely not have the same defect. All you need is one good one. So that makes me lean towards thinking it should be illegal.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  11. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Not surprising that you'd fit your world view into such stereotype.

    Guess what, Boston battled school segregation issues with fairly profound racist themes just a mere 40 years ago!!! Perhaps news to you. :rolleyes:

    Racism, both subtle and overt, is everywhere.... Including football message boards. No one claimed otherwise, Drama.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2010
  12. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Not surprising that you just aren't quick enough to pick up on the obvious sarcasm everyone else was able to pick up.
    You're absolutely right. Liberal Massachusetts, and Boston specifically, has a shameful history of racism.
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you admit that you believe that somethings only happen to certain people in certain locales, is prejudice.. fess up good for the soul.
  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Hey, I am just mimicking the liberal mentalities towards the south. You often see terms like "redneck" and jokes along the lines of these things happening in Kentucky or Alabama.

    Nice to see some moonbats getting really upset now that the tables have been turned on them.
    :rofl: :rocker: :rofl:

    So you ever going to man-up and answer the questions, or will you continue to hide away in the corner, frightened of your own shadow?
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is quite difficult to "man up" against a very immature child.. time to report me again. I called you immature, break out the wah! wah! crybaby machine.

    It is difficult to respond to stupidity..
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Columbia....:singing::singing:

    A breeding ground for "whack jobs" of the worst kind "looneyville"
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2010
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The idiot parade has begun.. dumbest thread in a long time, perhaps forever.
  18. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I've asked you to answer my questions, and you're not man enough to do so.

    I've asked you for sources, and you've provided none.

    Now you're just making a complete fool of yourself. :rofl:
  19. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    True re comments and stereotypes of the south.

    Of course, people in those parts of the country do the same thing re the coasts.
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A little lesson for you, do not make demands of anyone on an anonymous message board.. if you do not understand that then you are even dumber than previously thought.

    Making demands makes you sound like a petulant child, who if not given his own way will tantrum..

    The questions you ask are largely rhetorical and intended to inflame as some type of guise that this is sometype of liberal issue.. it has nothing to do with left/right.. intercourse with your daughter is wrong, it will be interesting to see how this plays out... as not aware of how the will prosecute this case, as both are adults, both(from what is available ) indicate that there was no force.. not quite sure what statute they violated as both, apparently, were consenting adults. Morality should not be adjudicated in a legal system.

    Yes Virginia, these things happen in Manhattan, in Boston, Western Massachusetts, California and Florida.. incest has no boundaries, no political affiliation and happens amongst all socioeconomic groups..

    To try to make it into sometype of political argument is idiotic and childish, any university whether it be liberal or conservative has its share of misfits..

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