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I really don't understand Republicans

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by weswelker#83, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 In the Starting Line-Up

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    When people have to work harder for the same or less payoff, it's NOT a sign that the middle class is thriving .

    http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/...pub.php?utm_source=mostactive&utm_medium=link


     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008
  2. IcyPatriot

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    #24 Jersey

    This is John Edwards biggest issue in his campaign and why he is my #1 candidate above McCain, Hillary and romney. It boils down to America is producing less and less every year ... importing more than exporting. Many were very high on the conservative ideas of free trade. The concept itself wasn't bad ... the result has been horrendous as America cannot compete with countries with few labor laws and uncivilized working conditions.

    Edwards knows it's a long haul but he also knows if something is not done the gap between the haves and have nots will grow. The problem is confounded by an idiot President Bush who has increased our deficit which relies on these foreign countries for $$$. Very hard to talk tough trade talk when you need to have investment $$$ from China ... they then turn that into an 80% monopoly of America's toy market. Imagine how many have nots would live better if that was at least 50/50? Enough to employ many say in New england that has suffered the worst from lost manufacturing.
     
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  3. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    In that quote it says public education isn't the issue, then in the next sentence says part of the problem for cities is the funding for schools leaving. To me, education is and will be key. I like to see funds that are redistributed go towards child and adult education to create more qualified candidates for the jobs we will have going forward, rather than a straight handout. Its also important to note that redistribution of weath is already happening, with that old figure of the top 1% paying 35% of the taxes. The bigger issue is how should that money be spent.

    I hear a lot about the shrinking middle class, what is the evidence of that? I'm not saying its not happening, but does anybody have some good data showing that to be the case?

    Also, besides education, what are other ways we can ensure prosperity for the lower class without just giving them money? In other words how to we best help the lower class pull themselves out of poverty?
     
  4. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    We all want the lower and middle class to do well. But it's a world economy now and the genie is out of the bottle. Sure we could shut down all imports from China/India, wherever, or put massive tariffs on them - and there's an argument to be made for that - but then prices would skyrocket. It's a problem but there's no easy solution and it's not a Republican or Democrat thing. Who was NAFTA started under ?
     
  5. patsfan13

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    Don't know about republicans, but I have a fairly good understanding of conservatives. Dems/libs depend on class envy and categories of designated victim groups of their power. They NEED people on distress so they are dependent on government, and by extension libs who espouse the big government programs of the mommy state. Conservatives (not necessarily pubbies) would rather see EVERYONE prosper so they wouldn't need government programs and by extension need as many tax dollars from their fellow citizens.


    Libs have a vested interest in the failure of others, without the poor there would be no need for the legion of government workers who administer the social programs (and consuming much of the money allegedly going to the designated victims). WIthout the poor there would be no need to beg politicans for the money of the middle (and upper) class.
     
  6. IcyPatriot

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    #24 Jersey


    BINGO !!! I was a raving lunatic during the NAFTA debate. Oh, I could see the greed and stock market part just fine. How anyone thought a unionized America was going to compete with Mexicans is anyones guess.

    Anyone who has ever stopped in a bar for a beer after work can relate to this. It was common in the 70's and 80's for a worker to stop in for a beer on a Thursday or Friday after work. Many of them would have their check cashed by the owner ... buy a round or whatever and then stay or leave.

    That described above rarely happens anymore because most of the manufacturing has gone south from New England and the country. The middle class demise is directly related to the fact we do not produce per capita what we used to ... Mexico, China, Japan ... etc ... they do.
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here's a liberal version of the nonsense you posted.

    Don't know about Democrats, but I have a fairly good understanding of liberals. Republicans/conservatives depend on avarice and protecting the white landed elite. They NEED people of great wealth so they can exploit everyone else, and by extension conservatives espouse small government so that they can let the wealthy run the country. Liberals (not necessarily Dems) would rather see EVERYONE prosper so there could be effective government programs for the truly needy and kids.

    Conservatives have a vested interest in the failure of others; without the poor there would be no source of cheap labor so the rich could pump up their wealth and buy big summer houses that they don't even use. Without the poor, they fear they would see their wealth decline, and then need to beg government for more corporate bailouts, government purchazses, and corporate tax loopholes than are currently provided. [/QUOTE]
     
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why "exploit" anybody? People with money in their pocdets make better customers. They also don't consume the tax dollars of their fellow citizens a win-win proposition, There is nothing about poverty that helps anyone who is rich (which I by the way an not, unfortunatly).



    Cheap Labor??/ I guess you missed out on the information economy and industrial automation, Patters you need to move past the worn out Industrial age class warfare rhetoric of Marx and give the present a try..


    Thanks for articulating how clueless libs are in their world view however.:rolleyes:
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, I agree, people with money in their pockets make better customers. So, let's have a good minimum wage law, low cost health care, and other programs so people can have more money in their pockets. Unlike you, I'm not worried about the wealthy. Even if we reinstate Eisenhowers 90% tax rate on the rich, the rich will still do well. You'll be able to sleep okay, or you can set up a charity to help them.

    I guess you missed the whole business argument for illegal immigration. You need to read up on the basic reason why people like Bush support an amnesty. And, by the way, there are zillions of jobs that are not part of the the information economy. Did you ever go shopping, hire a cleaning person, have work done on your home, get your trash removed, etc.? And it has nothing to do with Karl Marx, absolutely nothing; that's 1950s Red scare crap, and I think it's laughable that you even brought it up.

    No, thank you.
     
  10. jack

    jack 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    That was hilarious:D
     
  11. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    If we look at education as a priority in preparing Americans for the new job market one thing I'd like to see is a change in how College financial aid is calculated. I think it would be great if more places went the route of not including the value of your house in the calculation of your ability to pay. I think it was Harvard that already has done that (of course a $35 billion endowment makes that decision pretty easy!).
     
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've decided to get out of technology and change careers, and just paid $8200 for one semester of college. Rather than pay out of savings and retirement, I decided to apply for loans. The ones the government offered were 3% higher than the loan offered by my credit card (and, like the credit card loan, they were not deferred). I think that's ridiculous. Now, I can understand why I wasn't entitled to anything, but at the very least, education loans should be competitive with credit card loans. As I understand it, even deferred loans have high interest rates, meaning that students who go into less lucrative occupations will have a tough time. Would you choose to be a teacher, for instance, knowing that you would graduate with $50k in loans? This is all the result of the Reagan Revolution, and it's disgraceful.
     
  13. patsfan13

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    The minimum cuts off young workers from entry level jobs. If government could just dictate wages without any consequence why not just have a $1.000/hr minimum wage so we could all be millionaires. The best way to have wages increase is less regulation, and lower business taxes. This would allow more investment in tools to increase productivity.

    A growing economy that creates demand for more workers will cause wages to increase, You know the supply demand thing.




    The dems want illegals for their new voters and people they can promise a free luch to, pubbies support amensty because they are afraid of alienating hispanic voters who will be the majority in 30 years (look at the birth rates).




    I've always if you were a bureaucrat or were employed by an academic institution.
     
  14. patsfan13

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    Wait a min Patters, a few weeks ago you were complaining about the cost of a European vacation and you need a gvo loan to attend school?????????????:eek:

    ROTFLMAO


    You are a true lib!:singing:
     
  15. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Man. If you don't mind me asking what are you studying that costs that much for one semester ?
     
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The minimum wage has worked fine. It generally leads to short term decline in employment, followed by a return to normal. We had big tax cuts and now we are in a recession as many predicted, and even Republicans are talking about giving handouts to everyone rather than more tax cuts. Your thinking is tired and old. It's not relevant in the current economy. Why not bring back slavery (without regard to race, etc.); that's quite good for economic interests of people you're trying to protect. Or perhaps you believe the economic argument against slavery is similar to the argument for higher wages.

    Yes, minimum wage increases give people more spending money, which allows them to spend more, and makes the economy grow. I do not know the supply demand thing very well.

    Pubbies and many conservatives, like Bush, also want the amnesty because it depresses wages by creating a large pool of low wage employees. At any rate, you are right that people like you are losing their majority, and time will make your views even more obsolete IMO. Old thinking will not work if conservativism is to remain a force. Like it or not, conservatives are going to have to find a way to attract at least some of the groups they excluded: blacks, Latinos, gays, etc. They still have another generation to change, but in the long run liberalism will prevail, as it always has.

    My business credentials are quite good. I worked for an international financial think tank (on their network mostly), then one of the big technology companies. Now, I'm changing careers.
     
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Psych. It's a master's program. Masters credits are much more expensive than undergrad (and I have to do more course work than normal because I'm trying to get the degree in 2.5, not 3 years). What's annoying, if I did the same program online, I'd save about 1/3, but frankly I've spent so much of the last 22 years on computers, that approach didn't appeal to me.
     
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I do what makes the most economic sense for me. My point was merely that the gov interest rate is higher than credit card, which struck me as strange, but then again, with Republicans running things for so long, it's no wonder that greed is creed in DC.
     
  19. patsfan13

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    Yeah I bet getting taxpayer money for a loan make more sense than using your own $$$
     
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, my credit card offered 3.99% for the life of loan. I think Sallie Mae, which I believe is private but has its investments to some degree protected by the government, should have been able to offer a comparable rate. Instead, it appears they are ripping off the consumer and the taxpayer at the same time. But, then again, that's probably a model that you would like. It's very Republican.
     

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