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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Aug 5, 2006.

  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think we could have done better in free agency, but I understand pioli underspending this year. I know we'll spend the rest, but not on anything that will help 2006, other than perhaps making Branch happier.
    ==================================================
    (25) OFFENSE - MUCH IMPROVED
    As bb said to Brady after the draft, the offense better be much improved.

    (3) QUARTERBACK - EVEN
    Brady led the league last year! Mortensen is warming someone's spot

    Brady, Cassell,Mortensen/fa

    (4) RUNNING BACK / FULLBACK / H-BACK - MUCH IMPROVED
    Dillon and Faulk are healthy. Maroney is a plus. Pass is still injured.

    Dillon,Faulk,Maroney,Pass

    (5) WIDE RECEIVER - NOT AS GOOD (BUT COULD BE)
    Branch isn't in camp yet; Jackson is a rookie; Brown almost retired last year; Caldwell has had a great camp; Depth? There can be no injuries!

    Branch,Caldwell,Jackson,Brown,Childress/fa

    (9) OFFENSIVE LINE - IMPROVED
    STARTERS are fine: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Gorin
    BACKUPS are fine: Hochstein,Tucker, O'Callaghan,Britt
    PUP - Kaczur

    (4) TIGHT ENDS - IMPROVED
    Hopefully, Graham can be back healthy
    Graham,Watson,Thomas,Mills

    ===========================================
    (20) DEFENSE - NOT QUITE AS GOOD, BUT WORKING HARD TO GET THERE

    (7) DEFENSIVE LINE - EVEN
    Wilfork is getting better every game, as is Wright. We have a 5-man rotation, so we are fine. We may need help from Freeman and Hill. Also, on some downs linebackers are our DE's. Tebucky might be also.

    FOR REAL: Seymour,Wilfork, Warren, Green
    ????? : Wright, Hill, Freeman

    (7) LINEBACKERS - NOT AS GOOD (BUT COULD BE)
    I chose Alexander over Mincey who I put on the PS. I cut Banta-Cain.

    STARTERS - Colvin, Bruschi, Beisel, Vrabel
    BACKUPS - Brown, Gardner, Alexander

    (6) DEFENSIVE BACKS - WHO KNOWS
    We'll see a lot of these six
    Samuel, Hobbs, C. Scott, Wilson, Hawkins, Sanders
    PUP: Harrison, Gay
    =============================================
    SPECIALISTS (3) - NOT AS GOOD
    Gostkowski,Miller,Paxton
    =======================================
    (5) SPECIAL TEAMS - EVEN
    Izzo,Davis,Jones,Guss Scott, Andrews
    =======================================
    THE BEST OF THE REST (WAITING FOR AN INJURY)
    Banta-Cain,Mincey (PS), Mruczkowski, Poteat, Thomas (PS), Smith (PS), Sullivan, Gramatica, Woods (PS), Mays (PS),Roach (PS),Ventrone(PS)
    ======================================
    TOUGHEST FIGHT
    The toughest backup spot is for the three backup LB spots.
    I know many would cut Izzo and of Davis. Personally, I think they are valuable special teamers and as Andrews do not need to contribute at a position.
     
  2. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    good post, thanks for the thought. Agree, but worry about the LBs and, to a lesser extent, the DBs. WR is thin, but Tommy's targets are plentiful-ish.
     
  3. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The toughest fight should be starting DB. Backup LB is less a tough fight than it could be a tough functional fill. Ditto WR if Branch fails to report any time soon. Just can't count on him doing that given the current rhetoric.

    I don't like this roster because I'm not at all sure all the PUPies or the holdout or a rookie WR will not remain functional no-shows. You don't win these things on paper, and even on paper we're THIN even presuming availability. That said guys could emerge under BB, or Belioli could yet make a move or two the strencthen their roster - just a little hard to see how since other teams are not in cap trouble as was the case in the past and the cut dates and numbers have been pushed later and lower.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2005
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Box,

    Your reservations are well taken. I expect Koppen back, since he is now practicing with Brady. I've left Kaycur, Harrison and Gay on the PUP at the beginning of the season. If Pass is on the PUP, or even cut if he can't come back healthy, Evans will make the team (not a huge deal either way).

    I do expect Bruschi to play with a cast. If not, welcome to Chad Brown, starting OLB. We now understand how important it is to have an experienced playcaller playing the mike polsition. Vrabel didn't start inside last year beacuse he was injured to start the season.

    I would not be surprised to see Mills on IR. I am fine with Watson and Thomas.
    ===============================================
    I AM COUNTING on Graham and Branch being on the 53. I am also counting on Bruschi. These are great risks.
     
  5. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just for the sake of accuracy, that was Mo posting, not Box. ;)
     
  6. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    "Thin" is a relative thing. Y'all are spoiled; if we don't have a star sitting behind all the starters, we have no "depth". Nobody else does either; most are much worse off, but Belichick has inculcated that into your consciousness.

    For example, How 'bout them Colts?

    Two one year UDFA scrubs starting at Guard on their Oline that Pay-me-a-ton said they had "protection problems" and threw under the Bus. A #5 draftee like O'Callaghan has already been placed as the nominal starter on the depth charts, sight unseen. Right!

    They are depending on a raw rookie for their running game replacing a franchise back in Edge James with Joe Addai. Right!

    Penciling in as a starter at LB covering for a loss to FA, is a guy, drafted last year in Rnd #3, who has never played a snap; and behind him are only UDFAs.

    A secondary that has four players under 5'8" tall including the SS, only one of which is even thought of as a good player. All are contenders to start. RIGHT!

    And that team is a Super Bowl Contender... Do you even want to look at a poor club?

    "I complained I had no shoes, until I saw a guy who had no feet."
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2006
  7. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey


    Nice post!!!
    Looking over the roster top - bottom, assuming reasonable health coupled with the signing of Branch (and some of the others that are quietly awaiting their deals), I feel this is a stronger team than last years.

    It may take 1/2 a season for this team to find itself and jell. The 2nd year players, rookies and free agents all will need to play together as they learn and prosper in our system. I alse look forward to seeing what additional players we find. These will come from other teams releasing players or perhaps a trade.

    Looking at the schedule, I have a very hard time finding any more than four games that we could lose. I predict 14-2.
     
  8. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No Jersey Selected


    Spot-on points, Mo, as usual.
    The moral of this preseason story : there is reason for optimism, and cause for concern.
    It would not surprise me if the FO makes a late-camp trade, a la Ted Washington in '03, given their cap space.
     
  9. PYPER

    PYPER Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    It looks about right to me. We'll have to wait and see what the final PUP list actually is. That could change some things. But overall it looks good.

    The one change I'd make in a hurry is cutting Pass. I'll be surprised if he makes the team this year. I just got a feeling BB hasn't forgot about that fumble last year. I like Evans in that roster spot but suspect that it'll actually be Mills filling in that role on the field.
     
  10. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Where have you read this? My understanding is that Koppen is farther away from playing than any PUP guy. He may have snapped a little in sweatpants the other day, but that's not "practicing." He is almost a sure-thing to start the year on regular season PUP.

    Am I missing something?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2005
  11. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    Mg, my biggest complaint with your roster is cutting Banta-Cain. Without a doubt, my single biggest concern for this team is LB. Having Bruschi and Beisel out during TC shows how paper thin we are at the position. If we had to play this week, Vrabel and Alexander would play inside, and Colvin and Brown would start outside, with Banta-Cain first off the bench. Talk about patchwork. They would run all over us. In fact, LB is so bad, I'm beginning to think we'll see more 4-3 than BB would like.

    My working projections for a 53-man:

    QB (2) Brady, Cassel
    RB (4) Dillon, Moroney, Faulk, Evans
    WR (5) Branch, Caldwell, Jackson, Brown, Childress
    TE (4) Graham, Watson, Thomas, Rasby (yes, Rasby!)
    OT (4) Light, Gorin, O'Callaghan, Britt
    OG (3) Mankins, Neal, Stevenson
    OC (2) Hochstein, Tucker
    NT (2) Wilfork, Smith
    DE (4) Seymour, Warren, Green, Wright
    OLB (5) Vrabel, Colvin, Brown, Banta-Cain, Mincey
    ILB (6) Bruschi, Beisel, Izzo, Davis, Gardner, Alexander
    CB (5) Wilson, Hobbs, Samuel, C.Scott, Andrews
    S (4) Hawkins, Sanders, Jones, G.Scott
    ST (3) Miller, Gostkowski, Paxton

    PUP: Harrison, Koppen, Pass, Kaczur, Gay << that's a lot of talent on lay-away
    PS: Roach, Ventrone, Bramlet, Woods, Mills
    Shadow Roster: Klecko, Mruc, Poteat, Thomas
    Full Cut: Sullivan, Warfield, Gramatica,
     
  12. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    rook,

    You have no 3rd Qb and no 7th DL. Instead you have 11 linebackers, OK nine if Izzo and Davis are consider special teamers.

    I think that you have nine is the hope that you will somehow get the six you want during the season. Only six really get many reps. I have noe ral problem keeping Banta-Cain. He is my #54 player. I'm just not sure he is more valuable than than the 7th DL. 6 DL's including a rookie project is just not enough depth. I think 8 is more likely than six, unless all six are veterans.

    The easiest change to your roster would be to replace Rasby by someone who might be active during the season, a 7th DL.

    I don't see bb going with two QB's, but we've started with stranger rosters.

    Rasby :))
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  13. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

     
  14. PYPER

    PYPER Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I wouldn't be surprised at all to see BB go with only two QB's. It all depends on how good a prospect any of these would-be #3 guys really are. BB won't keep a guy around just to take up space.

    If something were to happen to Brady, I wouldn't be surprised to see Flutie come out of retirement. They might even have discussed it when they decided to part ways. Who knows, maybe BB's been planning on only going with two QB's for quite a while now.
     
  15. Flying Fungi

    Flying Fungi In the Starting Line-Up

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    did we lose DB Mel Mitchell? My understanding was that he was looking better than Tebucky from a few camp reports...

    [EDIT]--been out of town--didn't see the biceps injury thread. Carry on...
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2006
  16. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Great post. I agree with most except for Special Teams.
    I know because Adam is gone were going to miss those clutch field goals.
    But either Gostkowski or Grammatica can kickoff deep. From what I;ve heard out of camp anyways.
    This just might be a wash, mg.
     
  17. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    me too! Once healthy, the are going to open a can of woop ass on the NFL!
     
  18. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Why do you insist on making yourself look like a schmuck with your "tribute"? I don't really care, I just find it fascinating that you either don't know or don't care that you're coming across as such an a-hole.
     
  19. rookBoston

    rookBoston 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    Agree with that. I dont think that either one of our #3 QBs are much to get excited about-- certainly not this year. Keeping one of them would be fine with me. But there is no risk stashing either one onto the PS.

    Some logic behind my keeping only 7 DL and 11 LB:
    - A lot of those LBs are actually the core of the ST unit. In addition to Izzo and Davis, I expect Gardner, Mincey and Alexander to earn their keep on ST. A week or two ago, I would have cut one of the LBs and kept Mel Mitchell instead.
    - I could see a case for adding Hill to the roster, and cutting loose a defensive player like G. Scott. But, again, it comes down to ST play, and if Hill is not healthy, we're better off with the guy who can contribute to the team.
    - I dont like the fact that Bruschi and Beisel are walking the sidelines in TC right now. That is one area more than any other that has me worried for the season. In fact, I dont think this team will make the playoffs unless someone to steps up to solidify the #3 ILB spot.

    As for Rasby, I'm not joking in naming him to the 53-man. Honestly, I think he's keeping Mills's HB roster spot warm till Mills is ready to come off PUP. Rasby is a good team player with a veteran mentality. I like what I heard from him on Patriots Video News-- sounds like a guy who fits this offense and this staff. Evans is another quality guy who's filling space on the roster until Pass comes off the PUP. Top quality filler, but still filler nonetheless.

    By the time Harrison is healthy and ready to play, G.Scott will be injured and back on IR. Same with Gay and C.Scott. Tag team football... the best way to survive 20 games.
     
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wish Jackson and Mills were getting their reps, very important for rookies, and both can contribute. I just want Graham, Sey and the vets to be healthy enough for the 3rd preseason game and get a couple of good weeks of practice in the vets will be fine.
     

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