I know this may be a stretch, but what about going after Mario Williams?

[RobertWeathers]

I will put this in the gimme gimme gimme I want I need but I totally understand why it wouldnt happen category.

Simple who would not want a player of his caliber money aside. And maybe somehow BB thinks he is worth the money and/or Mario takes a little less to come here and that would be absofreakinglutely amazing but I doubt it.

IMO spending priorities should continue to be internal on guys like Wes, BJGE, and to lesser extents Branch, Carter, Light, Waters, .....

You should be looking for one or two bigger name FA hopefully a Safety or CB and WR. And then a bunch of middle tier FA to fill in depth on the OL, maybe one more WR, and one each on D (DL,LB,CB, S).

Your not going to get all of the above through FAency but you still have a plethera of draft picks.

If somehow you went the Mario route you would likely lose out on a few of your own guys and would have less to shop for other FA with and would be relying very heavy on the draft to fill the other holes. Which honestly might be a better route but relies on actually being able to win the mario sweepstakes.

Mario and Wes would pretty much dry up all FA money heck you might not even be able to do both. obviously things would be real tight but I think you could still fit Branch, Waters, Light, and Carter in so long as they want back here and not last bigger pay days. I dont think this leaves much for any other FAs though no DB help, no WR (maybe Lloyd if he truly is following McD). Leaving a lot to be filled through the Draft and through vet or vlose to vet min FA.

If I can't have both....

I may get a ton of flack on this but if I had a crystal ball and I saw in 2012...

Welker- 120 catches, 1400yds, 5 TDs
Williams- 15 sacks, 35 QB pressures, 3 FF, 80% defensive snaps

Another item- harmonious lockroom is achieved with both players.

In addition we land a mid-level #3 WR and a mid-level TE.

I'll take the defense.

 

[Marqui]

I've come to the conclusion as well that I'd rather have Williams than Welker. I love Wes and I hope he takes cap friendly money to come back with the team but they already have enough "underneath" playmakers in Gronkowski/Hernandez/Edelman/Branch. I feel like all their resources should be going into getting outside receivers (Lloyd,Wayne,Colston,Bowe) and on defense.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Who, exactly is going to pay Welker 9 mil per year? Who else is a player for Welker if he hits the market? He's Brady's security blanket, but ultimately, he is a particularly specialized player who would only have a home in a few offenses and be as big a part as ours. Those offenses already have those guys, and a slot receiver like that is only worth more than 4 mil in those offenses. Welker probably signs for 6 mil for a handful of years and a nice bonus.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who, exactly is going to pay Welker 9 mil per year? Who else is a player for Welker if he hits the market? He's Brady's security blanket, but ultimately, he is a particularly specialized player who would only have a home in a few offenses and be as big a part as ours. Those offenses already have those guys, and a slot receiver like that is only worth more than 4 mil in those offenses. Welker probably signs for 6 mil for a handful of years and a nice bonus.

You think a team like the Rams wouldn't be more than happy to toss out some shekels for a guy like Welker if they aren't sure about Amendola's return? How about a team like the Jets/Jaguars/49ers/Texans/etc...?

Here's a list of the teams with more cap room than the Patriots:

Denver Broncos – $101.4

Atlanta Falcons – $100.2

Tampa Bay Buccaneers – $98.9

Kansas City Chiefs – $95.8

Washington Redskins – $94.3

Tennessee Titans – $92.7

Cincinnati Bengals – $80.6

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/897233-2012-nfl-salary-cap-projections.html

You figure none of those teams would be willing to pony up some scratch for WWW?

I don't know what Welker's going to sign for, but there are plenty of teams out there with money and a need.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Who, exactly is going to pay Welker 9 mil per year? Who else is a player for Welker if he hits the market? He's Brady's security blanket, but ultimately, he is a particularly specialized player who would only have a home in a few offenses and be as big a part as ours. Those offenses already have those guys, and a slot receiver like that is only worth more than 4 mil in those offenses. Welker probably signs for 6 mil for a handful of years and a nice bonus.

If WW was 26 and had 4-5 of those 120 catch/1400 yd years under his belt he could command what he wants. Now, not so sure.

To be 31 at the start of camp and typically WRs lose their quickness around 33? It goes without saying that he means a ton to this offense but I don't see him breaking the bank nor do I see him getting a king's ransom to stay here.

I think between Gronk, AH, Branch and 2 true WRs the offense will be fine. More defense will offset WW's loss.

 

[Patriot Missile]

You think a team like the Rams wouldn't be more than happy to toss out some shekels for a guy like Welker if they aren't sure about Amendola's return? How about a team like the Jets/Jaguars/49ers/Texans/etc...?

Here's a list of the teams with more cap room than the Patriots:



http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/897233-2012-nfl-salary-cap-projections.html

You figure none of those teams would be willing to pony up some scratch for WWW?

I don't know what Welker's going to sign for, but there are plenty of teams out there with money and a need.

People have got to be kidding themselves if they think this is the only place he can play. Look at his Miami career without this system and a mediocre QB. He's now a savvy veteran
that get's all the ins and outs of this game and would be willing to put in the work with his new QB so that their timing is right where it needs to be. He'd coach up his new QB so to speak. Don't low ball the guy because you think he has no choice but to stay. 100 receptions a season for what? 4 seasons? The guy that came back from injury in almost half the expected time because he wanted to play football with his team. 3 year deal please.

 

[strongside]

If there is a team that is willing to guarentee Santanio holmes 15 mil over 2 years than sure welker can find 3 for 30.

1. He would be absolutly scary in Houston although Houston is up against the cap.

2. Cinci is a great fit. They have a QB, a vertical threat, and a good pass catching TE.

 

[RobertWeathers]

People have got to be kidding themselves if they think this is the only place he can play. Look at his Miami career without this system and a mediocre QB. He's now a savvy veteran
that get's all the ins and outs of this game and would be willing to put in the work with his new QB so that their timing is right where it needs to be. He'd coach up his new QB so to speak. Don't low ball the guy because you think he has no choice but to stay. 100 receptions a season for what? 4 seasons? The guy that came back from injury in almost half the expected time because he wanted to play football with his team. 3 year deal please.

No one is saying that they do not want WW. I agree that a 3-year deal would seem reasonable.

At 30 years old, Moss signed a 3 year extension and for two of them he was highly productive. His last one was a disaster. I'm sure that they are thinking about that.

People are expressing concern that WW may want a big-time signing bonus north of $9m/yr and longer than a 3 year deal and that may impede the team's ability to upgrade other areas of need like DE, OLB, CB, SS and WR.

I would venture to assume that because WW is looking for "big" money OR the Pats do not feel he is worth the contract he is asking for, that is the reason he has not signed an extension with the team.

It all comes down to signing bonus and YoY cap ramifications.

 

[eom]

I can't believe nobody's suggested this yet.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You think a team like the Rams wouldn't be more than happy to toss out some shekels for a guy like Welker if they aren't sure about Amendola's return? How about a team like the Jets/Jaguars/49ers/Texans/etc...?

The key point, though, is that Welker has always wanted to be on teams that win games. He's not going to go to a basement-dweller for a few hundred thousand extra a year.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I would venture to assume that because WW is looking for "big" money OR the Pats do not feel he is worth the contract he is asking for, that is the reason he has not signed an extension with the team.

I wouldn't go that far. Welker's already said that he's made more money than he ever expected to make playing in the NFL.

TBH, I think the main issue—if, in fact, there IS an issue at all—is not $$ but years.

 

[Urgent]

You think a team like the Rams wouldn't be more than happy to toss out some shekels for a guy like Welker if they aren't sure about Amendola's return? How about a team like the Jets/Jaguars/49ers/Texans/etc...?

Here's a list of the teams with more cap room than the Patriots:

Denver Broncos – $101.4

Atlanta Falcons – $100.2

Tampa Bay Buccaneers – $98.9

Kansas City Chiefs – $95.8

Washington Redskins – $94.3

Tennessee Titans – $92.7

Cincinnati Bengals – $80.6

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/897233-2012-nfl-salary-cap-projections.html

You figure none of those teams would be willing to pony up some scratch for WWW?

I don't know what Welker's going to sign for, but there are plenty of teams out there with money and a need.

There are maybe two QB's on that list, if you count Dalton. If I was a top receiver, I'm not sure I would choose Tim Tebow or Matt Hasselback as my QB.

And if one of those teams pays Peyton, then they probably don't have a lot of money left for a top FA receiver.

 

[reflexblue]

I thought the texans could franchise williams, and if so why wouldn't they?

 

[TriplecHamp]

I thought the texans could franchise williams, and if so why wouldn't they?

because of how expensive it is for one season, because they have other priorities, because their defense played at an elite level in his absence.

 

[Urgent]

Mario Williams is terrific, and makes a defense a whole lot better.
He might be a better fit with a 4-3 - his 3-4 experience was small sample size.
I wouldn't go wild with a $10mm/per deal.

Looking over the free agents right now, I would be more excited with Calais Campbell, who is probably more likely to be franchised, but would be that top pass-rushing/edge-setting 3-4 DE the defense really needs, and couple him with a rookie edge rusher.

I would be as happy with Cliff Avril, who projects better as a 3-4 edge rusher and might be half the cost against the cap.

The other argument, however, is we would have been a lot happier with Julius Peppers on this team at his Chicago cost, not being able to afford Ocho Cinco and Shaun Ellis in free agency this year.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

yeah i don't want the pats to spend 12 mill on him...other people we need as well

 

[Urgent]

I thought the texans could franchise williams, and if so why wouldn't they?

...to summarize from multiple other posts on this situation:
Texans are in a unique situation relative to the franchise tag with Williams. Since he was the former #1 overall pick, his 2011 salary was really high, and well over the DE franchise tag - and WAY over the OLB franchise tag. Given that, he would receive 120% of his 2011 salary, not the franchise number. That's been calculated in some sites as $16mm and others as high as $22mm, but really expensive.

Watt emerged as a tremendous 3-4 end, and Houston has two productive 3-4 OLB's. The question they face, relative to the tag, is whether to make Williams their highest-paid player by a lot and be restricted elsewhere, or whether to get another receiver to complement Andre Johnson and so forth.

 

[Deus Irae]

The key point, though, is that Welker has always wanted to be on teams that win games. He's not going to go to a basement-dweller for a few hundred thousand extra a year.

There are maybe two QB's on that list, if you count Dalton. If I was a top receiver, I'm not sure I would choose Tim Tebow or Matt Hasselback as my QB.

And if one of those teams pays Peyton, then they probably don't have a lot of money left for a top FA receiver.

1.) Bradford is a talented QB.

2.) Cassel certainly knows how to use Welker, and the Chiefs should be much improved with the return of Moeaki, Berry and Charles.

3.) Tebow could use the outlet receiver

4.) Ryan is a top 10 QB on an already very successful team

5.) Freeman has shown flashes of excellence and could use the outlet receiver

6.) Hasselbeck's a smart QB, and Locker's a young guy who could certainly use an outlet receiver. Furthermore, the Titans won 9 games last season, so they're likely to think that they aren't all that far away from serious playoff contention.

7.) As I said, I don't know what the money amounts are going to be. However, getting a $6-7 million per season offer from the Patriots and an $8-9 million per season offer from someone else would certainly test most people.

 

[reflexblue]

Thanks for the information, but does anybody think the texans are just going to let him walk and not get anything for him? I loved to have the guy, I'm sure they'll try to sign him but if they can't i just can't see Huston letting him walk.

 

[StevePatsFan]

There are only two ways to get talent like Williams, suck for it and hope someone leaving college is available in the draft and does not turn out to be a bust, or a team does not manage itself well and leaves a player like this out there for another team to just pay for. If we have the opportunity to grab a talent like Williams without suffering through a 4 win season I say do it.

I prefer the latter, sign this beast and center the scheme around him to put him in position to kill the quarterback and give the ball back to TB12!