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I keep hearing Luck is unlike Leaf, Mirer, Russel, Smith et al.

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by CheeseMonkeys, Dec 15, 2011.

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  1. CheeseMonkeys

    CheeseMonkeys Rookie

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    Suck for Luck? Nah

    This is what I think the Colts will do with their #1 overall pick in 2012...

    That Colts trade back from #1 overall and take QB Matt Barkley or Robert Griffen to sit behind Manning. They then Use their extra pick to get a top Defensie player or a RB that can make an impact right away.

    Actually, I doubt this will happen but I like to make crazy predictions when it comes to the draft.:D
  2. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Re: Suck for Luck? Nah

    FWIW, I've just been doing a mock positing what happens if Indianapolis trades back

    I figured that the Browns were the best bet. Browns have two firsts and those plus their second this year and second next year should get it done. For me it's a win-win. The colts can get some nice talent that will be readier earlier than if much of the trade bounty comes in the next two years, something they'll need if they want a competitive team around Manning and for the Browns, whilst I'm not sure they're ready to give up on McCoy, the opportunity to nab a generational talent like Luck might be too much to pass on. So...

    Browns trade two firsts, 2012 2nd and 2013 first for Colts #1.

    Browns get Luck

    Colts get in the first two rounds (some possibilities)

    #1 Trent Richardson, Morris Claiborne, or Quinton Coples
    #2 David Decastro, Luke Kuechly, Zach Brown or Brandon Thompson
    #3 Mark Barron
    #4 Landry Jones or Ryan Tannehill

    I think that would be a great haul for the Colts and, should they be happy with Manning's health, be better for them than drafting Luck. However, when all is said and done, they can't afford to pass on Luck just in case he goes on to become the next Manning and the Colts will be forever known as the team that passed on Luck.
  3. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Re: Suck for Luck? Nah

    Colts host Texans tonight. TJ Yates at qb and still no Andre Johnson. Wade Phillips still not calling the defense. If they can keep our honorary pats Barwin and Reed off of Orlovsky. Colts could win this one. Setting up a showdown against an awful Jacksonville team next week. Could Indy win 3 in a row??
  4. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    Re: Suck for Luck? Nah

    Wow what a finish last night.

    Is it just me or have the Colts come alive after the great second half they had against the Pats a few weeks ago.

    Could the Vikings wind up with the 1st pick?
  5. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Re: Suck for Luck? Nah

    I think St. Louis will get the top pick. They lose to the Steelers and Niners. I think Minny can beat Washington or Chicago. I think Jacksonville is out of their minds if they try to beat Indy next week. Why face Andrew Luck for the next 12 years. How did playing Peyton Manning work out for that franchise?

    1. St. Louis - Trades pick to Cleveland A. Luck.
    Rams get both 1st this year and their 1st next year. Brownies get someone to build their team around. First time since they were re-instated after moving to Baltimore

    2. Indy - Matt Kalil

    3. Minnesota - Trades pick to Washington or Miami RG3
    1 and 3 this year. And, their first next year. Have Miami and Washington bidding against each other driving the price up.

    4. Jacksonville - Morris Claiborne

    5. Cleveland to St. Louis - J. Blackmon

    6. TB - Tough call here. Zach Brown maybe. Especially, if sub 4.5 as rumored. The next D. Broooks?

    7. Washington to Minny - Riley Rieff - OL

    8. Carolina - Devon Still - DT

    9. Miami - Quentin Coples - DE

    10. Buffalo - Dre Kirkpatrick - CB


    What'ya think?
  6. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Rookie

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    Re: Suck for Luck? Nah


    I think the bolded might be their preferred option all along. It certainly saves all the QB controversy stories that will dog their 2013 season should they forced into picking Luck by having the no 1 spot.

    As for your top 10, I wouldn't bet against Trent Richardson to TB. If I'm them, I'm not letting LeGarette Blount stop me from picking a player that could be the best at his position for the next 5-6 years.
  7. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Re: Suck for Luck? Nah

    That's where I was thinking of putting Richardson. Wasn't sure where TB valued a rb. Trent might be able to help them sell some tix and become the face of the franchise along with Freeman.

    Only downside I see. T. Richardson doesn't seem to have the type of running style where he's going to make people miss. While he's a physical specimen. His style of running might make for a short career.
  8. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

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    in that he is a once in a generation talent. How do the Colts pass up on that? Is this assessment accurate? Is his talent level such that we can't reasonably expect him to fail?
  9. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Far better and less stressful to strike gold in the sixth round.

    The answer, IMO, is "who knows?" I watched a couple of Stanford games this year and thought Luck was clearly really good, but also looked ordinary on a lot of plays against slower D's and lesser players than he'll face even on a middling NFL team.

    He struck me as somewhere between Sanchez and Brady...a pretty broad spectrum but meant to capture "ordinary" vs. "great." I'm glad it's not our problem.

    Dungy said the other night that he didn't think it was a foregone conclusion by any means that the Colts would pick Luck over Griffin; that was, of course, before Polian got the boot.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  10. asfpnepRefugee

    asfpnepRefugee Rookie

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    We'll find out over the next year or two. Is it possible that he's the next Manning? Yes. Is it possible that he's the next in a long chain of can't miss #1 picks? Yes.

    It is true that these days QBs seem to be coming out of college better than in yesteryear (more passing at both the college & HS level likely a big factor) so he has that going for him. With that in mind it seems less likely that he'll totally flop although will he be heads and tails better than the tenth QB taken in the draft? We'll have to wait & see.
  11. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

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    I don't know about that. If he is truly a once in a lifetime pick, then the problem doen't seem too difficult to abide. Is that the consensus? I haven't watched him much, looked good the other night.
  12. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    He has all the tools physically and has had great success in a pro-style offense in which he has called his own plays for extended periods of time. He is much farther ahead in the mental aspect of quarterbacking than the vast majority of players his age.

    Obviously he could fail, but there is very, very little to be concerned about his demeanor, his passion for the game, and his work ethic. And those three factors are the ones who generally cause young, talented QBs to falter. He is as "can't miss" a QB prospect as the league has seen in a long time, but that doesn't mean he's guaranteed to become a success.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  13. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    but far far less likely to happen.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  14. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 Rookie

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    i think the colts should take Matt Kalil the best LT in the Draft and build a line around Peyton if he can play two more years then thats two more years they got a shot at the SB, Drafting Luck and hopeing he becomes half the QB Manning is for me is not a good move,


    you bulid a team then you get Manning's replacement in the 2th round a guy like Andy Dalton who can win with a team around him right now only a player like Peyton can win with that team and Luck will never be that good
  15. Speedy Welker

    Speedy Welker Rookie

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    Peyton Manning said he want to retired as a Colts. If the Colts drafted Luck, I don't think we will see him as a starter for a few more years unless something happen to Manning. There are a lot of team in the NFL that need good QB, maybe the Colts will traded him and he'll play for another team.
  16. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    They are not taking an LT, they took one last year and besides, LT is not the only hole they have on their line. Saturday is also 34 already. It's tough for the Colts. If they cut or trade Manning, expect a backlash from fans, even though it's the right move going forward the next decade.

    If you think you have a shot at the next Manning, you take it. The rookie cap makes this a no-brainer. Or, you could trade down a few places and still get RG3 or AL depending on who gets taken first.
  17. Maker's Muppet

    Maker's Muppet Rookie

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    Passing up Luck would be monumentally stupid for any team unless they pulled a trade with Mike Ditka.

    Otherwise, you take Luck.

    Now, I'm not saying he's better than Bradford (I think very highly of Bradford) but the kid has a quick release, excellent touch, is accurate.

    I'm a little concerned about his arm strength, mobility and ability to take a hit. He looks to have pretty slow feet, and I don't know about his arm strength. He seems like he finesses throws a lot instead of firing it in there, and maybe in the pros he won't do that.

    Nonetheless, he throws the ball with impeccable timing--he can see the play developing long before the defense.
  18. Fball

    Fball Rookie

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    It's a business. The Colts, if they're smart, will trade Manning so that they can get good draft picks to build a team around Luck, and start a new decade-long run of winning seasons, division titles & SB contention.

    They won't draft Luck and have him sit behind Manning until he retires.
  19. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

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    But it does seem to set him apart from all the busts on the list and does not provide a reasonable expectation of failure. Because of all this, I don't want him on the Colts, but how can the Colts pass him up? How could they live with him being a multiple pro bowler for some other team?
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012
  20. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It seems obvious to me. Draft Luck. If Manning comes back healthy and looks like he's got another few years in him, hold a Luck Auction for quarterback-needy teams before next year's draft. If not, you have your (probable) future franchise quarterback. Paying a number 1 draft pick's salary for a season is a pretty good value insurance policy, given where the Colts find themselves.
  21. VrabelJr

    VrabelJr Rookie

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    The Colts can't trade Manning. The other 31 teams in the league know the predicament that the Colts have. All the other teams have to do is play a game of chicken with the Colts and it will force the Colts to draft Luck and cut Manning, or pass on Luck and keep Manning.
  22. ay-yo

    ay-yo Rookie

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    I think the Colts will ultimately trade down and the reason is money. If you take Luck and Manning leaves you are taking a GIANT risk. If Luck is anything less than spectacular fans will be pissed about how the Manning era ended and fan support won't be the same for some time (barring the Colts putting a legit team together and winning with a stud D etc.). They ain't in Boston and profit is not a guarantee. Given the many wholes they have I don't see Luck leading them to a good record next season. If I were them I'd try for something like this:

    #1 - trade to #6 with Skins:
    Snyder will overpay to get the hot shot, media golden boy. Colts get the Skins 2 / 3 / 4 this year plus future picks. Colts select Trent Richardson. Ugh. I love this guy, think he will be a stud anywhere and hope this doesn't happen.

    I'd then load up on offensive line. Keep the points going up on the board and fans will keep coming. Richardson / Garcon / Clark is a great offensive core moving forward and in the short term with Wayne and Collie is even better. With Peyton back they'll return to a 9-11 win team (HOU may still take the division) and can start building the D with next years draft.
  23. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For those of us old enough to remember the great debates, I don't think anyone thought that Leaf was better than Peyton. The big knock on Peyton coming out was that he couldn't win the "Big Game" and that held true for a while....But nobody thought that Leaf was better. Of course nobody thought that Leaf was gong to be the giant bust that he was..

    Same thing for the Bledsoe vs. Rick Meier, some said Meier, but I really don't think it was that many.

    Luck is pretty much a Peyton clone, son of a quaterback, stayed an extra year in college when he would heva been most likely the #1 pick if he came out as a Jr. The kid went to Stanford, so obviously he is no Jamarcus Russel*. People will try and push RG3, but if you need a QB, you should go after Luck with gusto. he is the real deal.

    *predicted he would be a bust
  24. ctpatsfan77

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    Here's the thing that people are missing about this:

    The Colts have to make this decision in at least a partial vacuum of information.

    In particular, while the Colts may know that Peyton's ball is 100% back to normal, they will have no idea if they have to be concerned that a single hard hit will ruin him completely. Similarly, any team that might be willing to trade for Manning would have the same risk.

    On that count, I have no envy at all for Polian's successor.
  25. cstjohn17

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    They either draft him or trade him for a King's ransom.

    If they think Manning will be healthy then they could trade the #1 for multiple 1st round picks. Alternatively they take luck and trade Manning for 50 cents on the dollar.

    Luck looks to be a very good quarterback with an upside that is not as high as Manning but at worst would be a Carson Palmer type, serviceable pro, top 1/3 of league QBs.
  26. fester

    fester Rookie

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    That logic only works if there is one team interested in Manning. I do not think that is the case. For instance if there are 5 teams that are very interested in Manning, then several of them should be very willing to pay a fairly high price in draft picks to get him from the Colts because the differential between a reasonably healthy Manning and the next best option (Flynn, Griffin etc) is very steep.

    If there are multiple interested teams, they will bid against each other in order to preclude another team from getting him, and that is true even if the Colts announce tomorrow that they are drafting Luck no matter what.
  27. mb6592

    mb6592 Rookie

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    I'm trying to reconcile these two statements. I could live with a Carson Palmer going to the Colts with Peyton finishing his career in the NFC (and I don't see a team paying a king's ransom for a 36 year old QB coming off serious neck surgery).

    I'd rather the Colts, especially in the disgusting manner in which they did it, not sign a Peyton clone for the next 15 years.
  28. MP-Logick

    MP-Logick Rookie

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    The Colts cannot trade Manning. Literally. Unless they want to pay him a $30 million bonus first.
  29. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

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    when the colts interviewed peyton and leaf, one of the questions had something to do with their plans on what they would do once they signed. peyton gave the smart answer leaf gave the retarded answer.

    the story of how my chargers got the retard leaf......
  30. ctpatsfan77

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    Moreover, anything they could get would have to be conditional, because there's no way of knowing how he'd hold up in an actual game situation [e.g., if they got a first in 2012, they'd have to give up a first in 2013 if Manning didn't stay on the field].

    Imagine if the first sack he took caused him to relapse?
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2012
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