I Don't Think Asante is Going to Come Back...

[DaBruinz]

They franchised him the first few times to be sure they could work out a contract..that wasn't done..it wasn't a BIG deal at all..he was still the highest paid kicker..the Patriots could have done it afain..and did not.. NOT sure what will happen with Samuel..he MAY be priced out given what CBs are worth..but it depends..

Actually, according to the CBA, if you franchise someone 3 times, the 3rd time the franchise number is paid out at the HIGHEST Paid franchise position. There was no way that the Pats were going to Franchise Adam this year.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think they would. They know he's going to want a long term deal and can almost certainly find someone who'll give it to him. Even if we got a #3 this year that's better than the comp pick we'd get for just losing him (probably a #4 or #5 in 2007) and a #3 is probably low considering other trades of Franchised players in the past.

Actually, If Asante signs a contract that averages over $5 million a year, there is a very good chance that the Patriots would get a 3rd rounder.

There is a period of about 20 days after the SB before free agency starts. In that time frame, the Pats have about 15 days to decide whether to Franchise Asante or get a contract done. They could, theoretically, Franchise him and continue to work on a long term contract. But if the Pats franchise him, its likely that he'll want MORE money and not less.

I think that the Pats could have Asante for a contract similar to Brian Williams. Which is just over $5 mill a season on average. Even if they bumped it to $6 million due to the cap inflation, that would still be fine with me if they get Asante for 6 years. Otherwise, its not worth it.

 

[smg93]

After receiving only salary from his rookie contract, I would think that he wouldn't mind the franchise tag. That'll put him amongst either the elite 10 or top 5 highest paid cb's in the league. That's not bad. But then again, that's just my opinion. I hope he's back. If not, I'm sure we'll be able to move on.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I doubt that if we franchise him he would stay after that, that kind of thing can really piss a player off...look at what happened with Adam...

Just use hom for one year to give his replacement a year to develop.

if the franchise tag is 8-10 million, that's guaranteed money for ONE year. He could get his huge signing bonus the follwoing year and he's be 8-10 million ahead of the game.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Actually, according to the CBA, if you franchise someone 3 times, the 3rd time the franchise number is paid out at the HIGHEST Paid franchise position. There was no way that the Pats were going to Franchise Adam this year.

If that's true, it's funny how that slipped under the radar with the media.

 

[PaulNEPats]

Great post Mo.

I will add my 2cents. I am sick and tired of watching him jump the ball for the INT instead of playing the man, especially on third down! He has been beat mutliple times because he is peeking in the back field looking for the pick and ends up giving up a big play, which he did Sunday. He keeps missing tackles or even contact that would allow his teammates time to come up and make a play because he wants to make the highlight reel. I appreciate his picks but his gambling is getting old and honestly I wouldn't shed to many tears if he is gone next year.

I know a lot of people on this board are big Asante supporters but there is more to playing CB than INT's.

Yep, I totally agree. A good example of this was against the Titans, where he whiffed going for the INT while covering Bennett. Instead of a 3-4 yard gain, it turned into a 40+ yarder.

 

[BelichickFan]

Actually, If Asante signs a contract that averages over $5 million a year, there is a very good chance that the Patriots would get a 3rd rounder.

I'm not good at the comps but I know #3s are few and far between. Regardless, I would prefer a 2007 #3 to a 2008 #3; and I think a #3 is actually a worst case in a trade - I think we could probably do better.

 

[Michael]

Because his stock is seriously high right now, and depending on how he does in the playoffs chances are he will get more then Brian Williams did this past year...Here's an article talking about it....


http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AqbW4c9WaO_Ewi6phQrwlsVDubYF?slug=ys-davisonsamuel010207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

You're just realizing this?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

If that's true, it's funny how that slipped under the radar with the media.

It's true now but it wasn't true last March before the CBA was approved. Franchise and transition tags are placed in February. So starting in 2007 if you franchise a player three consecutive seasons the third season is at the highest franchise rate. And it wasn't true for Adam ever since he was not franchised in 3 consecutive seasons. The first time the tag was rescinded in a week when they reached a 3 year deal. The clock would have started running again when they franchised him in 2005 and didn't get a deal done, but 2006 would have only been his second consecutive season under the tag.

And the Franchise tag for Cornerbacks in 2006 was only $5.89M. The transition tag (top ten salary average) was $4.74M. USA Today listed the top ten salaries at the position as:

Cornerback
Fred Smoot, Minn. $9,000,000; Sam Madison, Mia. $6,180,931; Dre' Bly, Det. $5,300,000; Ronde Barber, T.B. $5,114,000; Chris McAlister, Balt. $3,872,082; Jerry Azumah, Chi. $3,750,000; Quentin Jammer, S.D. $3,687,000; Brian Kelly, T.B. $3,636,333; Terence Newman, Dal. $3,601,237; Anthony Henry, Dal. $3,600,000

Franchise: $5,893,000
Transition: $4,774,000

Someone read the chart wrong. The numbers follow the player listings.

The numbers can go up or down depending on where players are in their contracts and how many got new deals this season. But it's been trending down because of the scarsity of the so-called shutdown corner and their inability to play the physical game under the Polian induced contact emphasis.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I fail to understand some of you fans. When the club doesn't have cap room long term, it conserves money and cap room. Why? SO IT CAN USE IT, when it does have the cap under control. Look at the Colvin signing, and the Law negotiations.

Belichick can pay Graham, Samuels and TBC, a million dollars a year MORE per season each, than the franchise price for each player, and still have mega cap room.

Why won't they remain here?

Asante and Grahambo in particular is a real producer, and BB pays for genuine production. Ask Jarvis Green.

Asante Samuel is becoming a very good CB and a play maker, at a position that BB covets and respects.

TBC has had the investment of four years of training in converting to OLB from college rush end. He had the pass rush; his sack totals are fine. he has controlled the edge. The anti-run statistics are fine. He hasn't yet come around on pass defense but as I recall Willie didn't do much there either.

I think you fail to understand Belioli will not overpay for talent, period. They will go market if he feels the player is worth it. If he believes the player is being over valued, he'll move on. See Deion Branch. And as for Colvin and Law, neither were offered excess value contracts. Colvin's was the going rate for OLB at the time, and in fact Mike Vrabel is now signed to an extension for just about the same amount. Law was offered $4.5M for 2 seasons - the transition tag or top ten average for Cornerbacks in 2006 was $4.74M. Bill apparently felt Ty was still close to top ten caliber, and that was coming off his 10 INT season on a bum leg. He's been healthy all season, and playing for Herm aside he likely would have been a great signing in this system at that price. His issue was he didn't really want to play in the system any more. He's been hell bent on proving it was all him all along, and he's been proven wrong. And Bill cut him to begin with because he saw the contact writing on the wall and didn't covet a corner enough to keep paying a premium for a position in transition. Oh well...

What they pay today in a flush market effects what they will be expected to pay in a year or two when the cap isn't going up $22M in 12 months, but rather $5-7M a year. And if they overpay to retain talent this year, they guys who have not been similarly overpaid will start to chafe.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

It's true now but it wasn't true last March before the CBA was approved. Franchise and transition tags are placed in February. So starting in 2007 if you franchise a player three consecutive seasons the third season is at the highest franchise rate. And it wasn't true for Adam ever since he was not franchised in 3 consecutive seasons. The first time the tag was rescinded in a week when they reached a 3 year deal. The clock would have started running again when they franchised him in 2005 and didn't get a deal done, but 2006 would have only been his second consecutive season under the tag.

And the Franchise tag for Cornerbacks in 2006 was only $5.89M. The transition tag (top ten salary average) was $4.74M. USA Today listed the top ten salaries at the position as:

Cornerback
Fred Smoot, Minn. $9,000,000; Sam Madison, Mia. $6,180,931; Dre' Bly, Det. $5,300,000; Ronde Barber, T.B. $5,114,000; Chris McAlister, Balt. $3,872,082; Jerry Azumah, Chi. $3,750,000; Quentin Jammer, S.D. $3,687,000; Brian Kelly, T.B. $3,636,333; Terence Newman, Dal. $3,601,237; Anthony Henry, Dal. $3,600,000

Franchise: $5,893,000
Transition: $4,774,000

Someone read the chart wrong. The numbers follow the player listings.

The numbers can go up or down depending on where players are in their contracts and how many got new deals this season. But it's been trending down because of the scarsity of the so-called shutdown corner and their inability to play the physical game under the Polian induced contact emphasis.

Am I missing champ bailey? and i thought ty law got bug money with the jets last year.

if the franchise tag is around 6 million i think they have to franchise him IMO

 

[mr3putt]

Lot's of teams with lot's of cap room next year.

Samuel has been a human highlight film on ESPN all year.

He and his agent smell blood/money in the water.

He'll cash in somewhere else.

And that sucks

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Lot's of teams with lot's of cap room next year.

Samuel has been a human highlight film on ESPN all year.

He and his agent smell blood/money in the water.

He'll cash in somewhere else.

And that sucks

Just milk him for one more year, who you gonna get to replace him. plus he knows the system.

 

[mr3putt]

Just milk him for one more year, who you gonna get to replace him. plus he knows the system.

If the franchise tag works by all means give it a shot.

Could be another contentious holdout situation though.

 

[cstjohn17]

Just milk him for one more year, who you gonna get to replace him. plus he knows the system.

He would be a fool not to listen to all offers, he is going to rake. I posted this somewhere before but can't find it now. It lists some of the salaries of recently signed CB. With the year #22 had and the new CBA he should be at the high end of these figures. This kid is going to make a mint.


--------------------------------------------------------
Here are some recent CB signings, make your own guess on where Samuel ranks. According to Miguel the Franchise number (average of top 5 salaries) for Cornerback, $7.226 million

Samari Rolle, Baltimore - 6 years, $30.5 M, $11M bonus, YOB 1976
Fred Smoot, Vikings - 6 years, $34 M, $10M bonus, YOB 1979
Antoine Winfield, Vikings - 6 years, $35 M, $10.8M bonus, YOB 1977
Fred Baxter, Cleveland - 6 years, $30 M, $10M bonus, YOB 1978
Brian Williams, Jacksonville, 6 years, $34M, $10M bonus, YOB 1979
R.W. McQuarters, Giants - 3 years, $6M , $2M bonus, YOB 1976
Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh - 4 years, $22.5M, $6.4 bonus, YOB 1980
Deshea Townsend, Pittsburgh - 4 years, $8M, $2 bonus, YOB 1975
Lito Shepperd, Eagles - 5 years, $25M, $9M bonus, YOB 1981
Sheldon Brown, Eagles - 6 years, $30M, $7M bonus, YOB 1979
Ty Law, Chiefs - 5 years, $31.5M, $4M bonus, YOB 1974
Mike McKenzie, Saints - 5-year, $22M, $4M bonus, YOB 1976

FA class is weak, http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/...eagentsDB.html

Samuel - ???? - YOB 1981
- wow, I didn't know he is so young, he is only 2 years older than Hobbs
My guess, I think he on the rise and while he may never be a top 5 CB he should be a better than average 1st line CB for the entire length of the contract. If the Pats sign Samuel and draft a CB in rounds 1 or 2 cornerback will become a position of strength.

... signs for 6 years - $36M, $10 bonus but not with the Pats

 

[hwc]

He'll cash in somewhere else. And that sucks

Not really. You have to look at it as five years of solid production for $500k per year. No matter how you cut it, Asante was good value for the Pats.

The real secret to cap management is to get that kind of value from a guy for four or five years and be prepared to move on to the next one when the time comes.

If you can re-sign the guy at a "win/win" price, great. If not, that's life. I seriously doubt that Asante is the last decent CB who will come into the NFL.

 

[BelichickFan]

Don't get too wrapped up in the Franchise number. Most players, especially young ones like Samuel, want a long term deal. Applying the Tag is largely a procedural matter that gives us control over who he signs a deal with - either us or someone we're willing to trade him to (i.e. not the Manginas).

Could he sign it and "burn us" ? Yeah. But it would be for one year and we have the cap money so it wouldn't be disastrous by any means. And he would likely want a long term deal in lieu of the one year deal. The tag is more about controlling where he goes than anything else. Now, we do have to have that amount of money under the cap to Tag him but that's not an issue for us.

 

[mr3putt]

Not really. You have to look at it as five years of solid production for $500k per year. No matter how you cut it, Asante was good value for the Pats.

The real secret to cap management is to get that kind of value from a guy for four or five years and be prepared to move on to the next one when the time comes.

If you can re-sign the guy at a "win/win" price, great. If not, that's life. I seriously doubt that Asante is the last decent CB who will come into the NFL.

The challenge at CB is to find the raw talent and teach him the system. Takes time and you can endure some pain durung the learning curve

With Rodney long in the tooth we need a CBack.. a nasty young safety...and a young ILB. A tall order even with cap dollars and 2 1st rounders.

Draft day will be important this year.

 

[DaBruinz]

It's true now but it wasn't true last March before the CBA was approved. Franchise and transition tags are placed in February. So starting in 2007 if you franchise a player three consecutive seasons the third season is at the highest franchise rate. And it wasn't true for Adam ever since he was not franchised in 3 consecutive seasons. The first time the tag was rescinded in a week when they reached a 3 year deal. The clock would have started running again when they franchised him in 2005 and didn't get a deal done, but 2006 would have only been his second consecutive season under the tag.

And the Franchise tag for Cornerbacks in 2006 was only $5.89M. The transition tag (top ten salary average) was $4.74M. USA Today listed the top ten salaries at the position as:

Cornerback
Fred Smoot, Minn. $9,000,000; Sam Madison, Mia. $6,180,931; Dre' Bly, Det. $5,300,000; Ronde Barber, T.B. $5,114,000; Chris McAlister, Balt. $3,872,082; Jerry Azumah, Chi. $3,750,000; Quentin Jammer, S.D. $3,687,000; Brian Kelly, T.B. $3,636,333; Terence Newman, Dal. $3,601,237; Anthony Henry, Dal. $3,600,000

Franchise: $5,893,000
Transition: $4,774,000

Someone read the chart wrong. The numbers follow the player listings.

The numbers can go up or down depending on where players are in their contracts and how many got new deals this season. But it's been trending down because of the scarsity of the so-called shutdown corner and their inability to play the physical game under the Polian induced contact emphasis.

Mo -
Those numbers are incorrect.
Here are the numbers from Miguel's page and I trust him and his research over USA Today in this regard

http://www.patscap.com/patsfreeagency.html

The 2006 franchise figures: Quarterback, $8.789 million; Defensive End, $8.383 million; Linebacker, $7.463 million; Cornerback, $7.226 million; Offensive line, $6.983 million; Running Back, $6.779 million; Wide Receiver, $6.172 million; Defensive Tackle, $5.656 million; Safety, $4.109 million; Tight End, $3.327 million; and Kicker/Punter, $2.575 million.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Mo -
Those numbers are incorrect.
Here are the numbers from Miguel's page and I trust him and his research over USA Today in this regard

http://www.patscap.com/patsfreeagency.html

Not sure what happened or if it just related to Clements or the figures in general, but they were set last March as USA Today and all the other sources reported and continue to report. Then Clayton reported changes in the new CBA resulted in Clements franchise tag increasing to $7.22M. But without tracking down the article I don't know if that was something that increased all the tag figures across the board (which would be odd since the decision to franchise had to be made pre CBA) or if it was a matter of something in his individual situation that increased it for him. Performance bonuses and the like get added to the tag as they did for Edge last season, adding a million to his cap hit even while tagged for the Colts.