I don't get it

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Jan 22, 2007.

  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I look at this and other boards and people are pointing fingers primarily on the offense. It is the usual whipping boys in Reche Caldwell and Josh McDaniels. Yeah, they played a part in the loss, but the Pats needed to score 39 points or more to win this game. That means a lionshare of the blame has to fall on the defense.

    I am not giving the offense or these particular people a free pass. They deserve a portion of the blame, but Dean Pees deserves a huge portion of the blame because he should have known Dallas Clark was going to be a big part of the Colts' offensive plans and he had no answer for him. Why doesn't Pees get the same scrutiny as McDaniels for having a major flaw in his overall gameplan.

    The offense was inconsistent and we did give up on the run a little too quickly and Caldwell dropped a couple of easy catches, but if we were able to even slow down the Colts' offense in the second half the offense still did enough to win the game.

    We gave up 32 points in the second half yet people are calling out Caldwell and McDaniels.
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

    I can't blame Dean. Colvin and Hawkins went down early, and Clark had a huge game because we had to put Banta Cain, Alexander, Baker, and Mickens in there.

    If our offense had controlled time more, or generated ONE first down at the end of the game, we likely would have won. Instead, McDaniels only ran the ball 4 times in the second half, had a '12 men in the huddle' penalty, and put Heath Evans in the backfield on the final drive instead of Faulk or Maroney.

    The defense was injured and exhausted, and yes I wish they did a better job, but the offense has no excuses whatsoever except for bad coaching by McDaniels.
  3. Fantasic4x50x54x59x55

    Fantasic4x50x54x59x55 Practice Squad Player

    Pees had the right idea just didnt have the players... Dallas Clark is a mismatch to most our LB's...
  4. jbb9s

    jbb9s In the Starting Line-Up

    I don't understand who was injured, who was in the doghouse, who had the flu and who just wan't in the formations/defensive sets. Maroney? Jackson? Corey? Hawkins? Colvin? Were these guys all hurt? Mike Wright was in there a bunch? I know Jarvis was in there for Seymore in the first half a bunch. Without Seau and Harrison, the lack of depth showed....any answers?
  5. Oswlek

    Oswlek Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Clark was only the main weapon because NE stopped the WRs. The fact that Indy tried so hard to get the WRs involved early tells you that the D was set up right.

    However, with all three DL cramping up and leaving at various times, as well as NE needing to play guys that normally dont see the light of day, it was fairly predictible that Indy would have success. The reason I hold the O accountable is they had a few drives where they could have either A) put the game away or B) given the D some rest, and they failed every single time. Even given great field position in the second half, they still only put 13 points on the board, and the TD came on a thirth yard drive.

    Nobody is saying that D is without blame, we are just saying that their ineffectiveness was caused largely by things out of their control. The O shot themselves in the foot, though.
  6. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    #12 Jersey

    I get it. We lost the game because we beat ourselves along with better play by the Colts.

    We had injuries that don't help and the Colts offense exposed those injuries as they should of. We couldn't stop them from scoring all of what? 2,maybe 3 possessions in the second half? We scored 13 points in the second 1/2 to get 34 points. Should of been enough .We were spotted a 15 point lead and failed to protect it. Ahhh screw it,my post sucks and my mind is going in different directions.
  7. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    The offense should have given the Defense more of a rest when given the chance to get on the field, but I agree. The defense brought this upon themselves by not getting off the field at the end of the first half and the start of the second half. After those two long drives the Defense was finished, and Manning knew it.

    The bad part is that our offense didn't play like THEY knew it. They should have stepped up and taken the game over, but they didn't.

    Credit the Colts defense too though, they got it done.

    I agree completely about your comment on Dallas Clark. Pees had no answer for him. Clark was a HUGE part of Indy's win. He was a huge mismatch for our LBs that never got answered.

    I don't agree with this though. The offense in the second half, based on the game situation, played horribly. They didn't do enough to give the defense TIME. They needed to re-establish Time of Possession and still score points. They scored a little, but didn't take any time off the clock, further dooming the defense.

    I think the defense set the game into a slide. They deserve at least half the blame. But the offense didn't do anything to stop that slide. They didn't give the defense any rest when it was obvious that they needed it.

    The whole team failed.

    It was a collapse, across the board.

    The only unit that we can really say anything good about is the ST units. They did pretty well.

    It all started with those back to back drives that the Defense allowed though. That was the beginning of the end, and we couldn't come back from it.
  8. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Alexander was a starter! He was replacing Vrabel who was replacing a benched TBC. Stop making it sound like the Pees was stuck with Alexander. He made a conscious effort to put Alexander in.

    I'm sorry. But we couldn't stop anything on defense and no matter who we had in defensive side of the ball. Even a a crappy defense shouldn't give up 32 points in the second half.

    You can't blame the offense for all the defensive problems.
  9. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #12 Jersey

    The offense was set up by good special teams play, The defesne was just downright awful in the second half.. They had a chance to step on the throat , and they did not do it..
  10. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    I'm not saying the offense doesn't deserve a portion of the blame. But everyone seems to be focusing in on the offense. The offense put 27 points on the board. Yes, they should have given the defense a rest, but the defense fell apart on both the last drive of the first half and the first drive of the second half where the offense had absolutely no control of keeping the defense off the field. This defense was spent before the offense could have done anything to get them back into the game.

    I'm sorry, but when you give up 32 points on defense in the second half, you gotta put a lionshare of the blame on the defense. The offense needs to take some responsibility, but when the first drive of the second half went almost seven minutes and 76 yards for a TD that is clearly 100% on the shoulder of the defense.
  11. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    No one should be saying the defense is without blame because they are clearly more than 50% of the reason we lost. I'm sorry our back ups should have been able to not give up 32 points in the second half. People are giving the defense a free pass.

    The fact of the matter is the Pats offense only punted 3 times in the second half out of seven possessions. They scored three other times and Brady was intercepted. It wasn't like the offense was going three and out on every offensive possession.

    Stop giving the defense a free pass by making excuses for them. Under no circumstance should a defense give up 32 points in a half even if you have all back ups in the game.

    As for Clark, he has been a dangerous weapon for the Colts all year. If Pees didn't account for him because he was focusing in on stopping Harrison and Wayne, he blew it. I and several other people on this board thought stopping Clark was one of the biggest keys to the game.
  12. PaulNEPats

    PaulNEPats Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    They were knocking Clark at the LOS in the 1st half, which worked. But in the 2nd half, they eased up on that. Not sure why.
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    I don't really understand why a fan base who follows a team that never points fingers gets so thoroughly caught up in finger pointing.

    They obviously had a sound plan to stop or limit the Colts scoring and score enough points to win. That takes the coaches off the hook in my book. Unfortunately they had personnel issues that exposed weaknesses they couldn't then cover sufficiently against what always has the potential to be a prolific scoring machine. That places the blame squarely on the shoulders of the FO whom most here struggle to ever point a finger at.

    Offensively this team faced challenges all season. From a rookie who was at least for his rookie season from a game planning standpoint a waste of a roster spot, to cast off WR's cobbled together on the fly in a unit facing 80% turnover in an offense always predicated more on savvy and grit than raw talent, to TE's who were either a rookie, a blocker when healthy or a raw talent to continues to struggle to emerge, to a RB grouping of four players with as divergent a skill set as you can get - the primary two being an aging downhill specialist and a young dancer who both struggled to run behind an Oline who had it's hands full pass blocking just to keep the franchise in one piece.

    That they managed to put 27 points up at this level is a testament to the hard work of the coaching staff and the players including the QB in particular. That they could not execute well enough to score another 4-6 when the opportunities presented themselves (a clear indication that the OC had a viable plan) is an indictment of the players who failed to execute and the FO who saddled the unit with them. How quickly we forget this team has always struggled to move the ball late in games and effectively grind out the clock with the exception of 2004 when we had a fully functioning 1600 yard lead back. And while they have still generally managed to move the ball sufficiently in crunch time when a FG was what they needed to prevail, that was not the case last night when a TD was what it would take with a minute left - further exposing the flaws on both sides of the ball that have existed all season.

    The defense is aging in key positions and unable to make athletic plays as it once did. LB and Safety are the cornerstones of a Belichick schemed defense and yet he has allowed those positions to degrade to the point we are playing end of the roster guys in the playoffs along side savvy veterans who no longer have the stamina to perform as this defense mandates for 60 minutes. They have always struggled with that requirement late in the season, only this week with the added burden of their schedule and the flu key veterans only had 13 minutes of intensively effective play in them and the rotation that triggered was unable to mount an effort nearly matching that.

    And it's not like we were playing the bad news bears - Indy has one of the most prolific offences in the league. Baltimore held them to 15, but could only muster 9 of it's own on offense. We spotted our D 27 on offense and another 7 via turnover, but 34 wasn't enough. If you told anyone before this game that all our D had to do was hold Manning and Co. to 30 or less you would have liked our chances. This defense couldn't do it, and there were hints of that at the end of the first half and it was fully apparent from the first drive of the second half on. There was nothing our offense could have done to stop Indy from scoring on that first drive, and they did more than enough - and more than we have any right to expect given they manner in which they are assembled - in establishing a heretofore insurmountable playoff lead. The defense simply collapsed earlier than usual due to age, injury and the toll a grinding season of bend but don't break takes on guys who generally trump talent with sheer grit and determination.

    We need to see a talent infusion on both sides of the ball. Not HOF'ers per say, but younger (and healthy) versions of Brown and Bruschi and Vrabel and Harrison and Dillon who can carry the day when confronted with playing alongside a few end of the roster guys covering for injuries. We have just gotten too thin on viable talent. Hopefully $30M will help to mitigate that going forward. We may end up paying a steeper price for shortening the careers of some of our veterans because of what we asked them to do this season.

    Last night was both a testament to the system and a confirmation of the fact (that some here persist in denying) that as good as the Belichick system is, it is only as reliable as the talent who perform within it.
  14. oldskool138

    oldskool138 In the Starting Line-Up

    #75 Jersey

    I think you answered your own question there. The Pats never throw anyone under the bus or call each other out (unless your Tom Brady and you call out everybody including yourself). I'm not saying that I'd like the team more if every Monday the team is trashing each other in the papers.

    We're fans. We have the luxury of pointing fingers and speculating. I enjoy it. Heck, there would be no PatsFans forum if we didn't point fingers once and a while.

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