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I can cut the defcit by 1 Trillion

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by BelichickFan, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    And I don't touch entitlements yet.

    I'm home with a sick kid so I looked up a few numbers to knock down the $1.5T or so deficit.

    Eliminate Home Mortgage Deduction - $130B
    Eliminate Department of Energy and Education - $100B
    Reduce Department of Defense to 2008 levels - $200B
    End Middle East Wars - $150B
    End Bush tax cuts for rich - $80B
    10% across board cut for Federal Employees - $100B
    Close all foreign bases - $250B

    Total = $1T. Which is about 2/3 of the deficit.

    The rest can easily come from entitlements but I'm not going there. You can also make smaller cuts that make a difference now that the deficit is a mere $500B.

    A few comments :

    - On the Mortgage Deduction I would simultaneously eliminate property taxes which would balance that out for homeowners. This would end up being a tax increase as the states would have to raise sales or income tax to pay for the loss but so be it. This makes it simpler and fairer. It helps the federal disaster and the states can do what makes sense for them.

    - DoEn is a failed department that was supposed to get us off foreign oil 30 years ago. Well done. DoEd is un-needed, states do education.

    - Make the DoD cuts, let the Secretary of Defense decide what goes/stays.

    - Wars and tax cuts for the rich I just used numbers from MSNBC. If the savings are too high then it's the Libs' fault for exaggerating them. As is, that's the savings.

    - Cuts to Fed Emp was a guess based on google of # of employees * average salary.

    All the numbers are estimates but I don't believe they're way off. I am a conservative and I'm slashing defense, stopping wars and closing bases. And raising taxes. But the deficit is immediately under control.

    Now - entitlements HAVE to be cut because my cuts don't address their upcoming implosion. DarrylS said a few weeks back that entitlements are "a promise made". Yes but they're "a promise made that can't be kept", sorry. We can keep them but they're going to be cut / growth slowed. That's just how it is. But I don't want to get into medicare here because it'll turn into a health care debate again :) Bottom line, though, entitlements have to be flat lined in expenditures and divided up as fairly as possible as opposed to exponential growth.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, BF I think if you and I were at the negotiating table, you'd have put forward a good starting point. Ending the wars, ending the tax cut for the rich, closing foreign bases, cutting the military I can pretty much agree on.

    On the other things, I think I'd have some more issues. I'm not opposed to ending the mortgage deduction, but the fact is you couldn't tell the states how to handle their property taxes. The Dept. of Energy I'm not against reworking, but I do think that the feds need to continue to invest in alternative energy or we need significant legislation to get the entrenched energy powers to embrace alternative energy. I also think that education should be treated as part of the national agenda in terms of American self interest and survival, but there's probably room for cuts.

    At any rate, your proposal is a good start.
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Abolish it as is and you can spend as needed on specific projects. It's too big and bloated like all departments. If you want to spend some on a specific "Manhattan Project" style program to get us off oil, great, but it should be smaller, more direct and have a specific end point to answer to.

    On the property tax thing, you are right that the states would have to decide how to pay for that and could keep the status quo but it's completely unfair that only property owners have to pay for the services (largely schools) that property tax pays for. Replacing it with a sales tax is much more equitable.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    That's not much of a negotiation, btw, you just accepted all the Liberal desires and gave me nothing back. That's not going to get it done. You need a serious bone to throw out there.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm willing to negotiate on the other matters. For instance, I think your point about replacing the energy department with a manhattan project is a good one. Also, cutting fed salaries and eliminating the home mortgage deduction are not exactly liberal positions.

    The problem I think is that we need to raise taxes on the wealthy even more than you propose as part of a final solution. It's my strong belief that tax dollars ultimately end up in the pockets of major corporations and in turn benefit shareholders. The wealthy among us have more to gain from the federal budget than most of us, and therein lies the rationale for them paying higher taxes.

    I would propose a more progressive tax structure, and in return cutting federal wages by 10% and shifting all government employees, including troops, to a 401k type retirement plan (though of course providing additional benefits for those injured during service).
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Which is a prime example of why none of this would ever happen. Everyone is open to closing, cutting, and eliminating the stuff they don't like, but when you want to do the same to one of my personal favs....well....

    While I wouldn't eliminate a Dept of Ed, I do wonder why we have one, and that we do, why does it spend $50 Billion? States should, and do run their own educations systems. Now imagine if we took 10-20% of that $50 billion and used it to give tuition vouchers to parents who wanted to send their kids to private school. Wouldn't that be money better spent?

    Good luck eliminating property tax. It's the single largest source of "revenue" for cities and towns. Not happening.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Rule #1 of my budget - if you don't know why we have something then it gets cut. Completely.

    I want to Eliminate and Replace, not a straight elimination. Replace it with increased Sales or Income tax. Why are property owners the only ones paying for schools ? Do those who live in apartments not have kids ?
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  8. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Word.

    The tax for people in apartments is paid by their landlord, who in turn passes that cost on to his tenants by charging rent.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  9. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    That's too indirect, just get rid of the property tax and replace it with something everyone can see.
  10. Triple-T

    Triple-T Rookie

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    I agree with everything here except the mortgage tax deduction. Getting people to buy and own homes builds better communities. It is the one investment that everyone should make if they can not only for themselves but for their neighbors as well. I'd slash everything else as much as possible.

    As for entitlements, the promise made originally was that if you live past your life expectancy, the government will help. Just start raising (incrementally over time) the benefits age to be comparable to the starting point and all troubles fade away.
  11. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    My intent was to get rid of the mortgage deduction AND get rid of property tax simultaneously. The net effect is little on the homeowner, a big gain for the feds and a big loss for the states. Then state taxes have to be raised but it can be done more fairly (not just property owners) and the competing offsets of mortgage deductions and property tax are gone. Taxes are too complicated, this makes them a tiny bit simpler. Why deduct the mortgage interest then tax the property value, it's stupid.
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Surprise, but could not agree more.. the only issue may be the mortgage deduction, but that also favors the rich.. the interest on a million dollar home is much different than a mortage on a 150K home.. but eliminating it would level the playing field.

    Interesting that 600 Billion of this comes from DOD and related expenses.. with no cutbacks to veteran's benefits..

    The department of education should never have happened.. it is one of those attaboy feel good things, that the Feds have not business being involved in.

    Not familiar with what the Dept of Energy does..
  13. Triple-T

    Triple-T Rookie

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    I get what you're saying, but as mentioned above, it's a challenge to coordinate. Also, the way it works today is that when you get into a mortgage, your deduction is going to be much greater than the property tax, thereby assisting in the early years. It then shifts more towards the property tax and eventually only the property tax. Most states do it right, California prop 13 screws the state.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    My about the DofE is that I'd imagine there would need to be some central authority, or organization, regarding education. Nothing remotely close to what we have today, as I think education is a state (local) issue.


    How is a city going to implement a sales and income tax on a local level, that will amount the same revenue that property taxes do? Plus, property taxes directly go to the people who own/live in the city. It's a stable source of dollars that are used to fund city operations, that owners of property i.e. the people living there, enjoy. Forget about eliminating property taxes. It's not feasible and not happening.

    Exactly. The taxes therefore directly affect the people who live inside the city/towns borders.

    It doesn't get more direct than property tax BF.
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    The DOE is in charge of making sure power plants Nuclear Power plants are run properly for example, they set the standards They are also in charge of research labs like Oak Ridge, Los Alamos, and Laurance Livermore. On top of that the DOE is ultimately in charge of Nuclear weapons, not the military. So i think the DOE is pretty important.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011
  16. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    By indirect I meant that it's all screwed up because homeowners have savings from the mortgage deduction and costs from the property tax. For some it offsets. For others they save money. For others it costs them money. It's too complicated.

    Get rid of them both. The Feds save a lot. The states lose a lot. They make it up with an income or sales tax increase. This is a tax increase overall but we aren't going to balance the budget - or bring it under control - by tiny little cuts.
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    One is a local tax, and one is a federal deduction. They aren't related. Property taxes not only vary by state, they vary from town to town. Forget property taxes, cuz they're not going anywhere.
  18. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Neither is half the stuff I suggested. Maybe they are going nowhere - fine - these are my cuts and no-one has given me a reason yet to eliminate both the property tax and the mortgage interest deduction and have the states get their money in a different way.
  19. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    good thread .... and also a complete and total end to military and government foreign aid.

    Use some of that to increase human need foreign aid and the rest to eliminate the deficit.

    Money to Egypt - money to Pakistan - money to Israel ... all of them ... over and done.

    Increased aid to 3rd world countries ... mostly the African / aids ravaged areas of the world.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2011

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