I believe...I don't believe...

[Displaced - Fan]

Hobbs and Samuel are both solid football players, I like both of them, and am glad we have them...but the only way they have any chance at all of defending inside moves by receivers is by hard body contact, EXACTLY at the moment the ball arrives.... if they are off by one second, they will get beaten constantly. A taller DB can play the ball with hands, being able to match the height of the wideout....

Accually they need to jam the WR within the 5 yard mark to throw them off their route and the QB's timing. For smaller corners I believe this is the key.

 

[Crowpointer]

Can we? You bet, I already have us picked in a pool. What's that? Pools are illegal? Well lets keep that on the down low then.

You WIN !!!! Johnny show him what he's won!...... A trip back to the ...........Pats trivia thread !!!! Hooray !!!!!!

 

[Slagathor]

OK, here I go.

- I also believe Brady is the best QB in the league by a lot.

- I think Maroney will have the overall starting job by week 6.

- on that note, I think Corey is done and will be relegated to short yardage play a la Jerome Bettis.

- I think Deion Branch won't be on the team this year.

- Chad Jackson will be on the field on week 1.

- I think our LB corp will be soild despite earlier prognostications.

- I think Seau will end up with at least 60 Tackles.

- As said before, I think our seconday will end jup being our achilles heel on D and will continue to give up way too many long pass plays.

- Gostkowski will be in the top 10 of NFK kickers.

- We will make it to the AFC Championship, but come up short against............Cincinnati.

 

[Oswlek]

Yep. Thats why I like him and now he is really starting to take advantage of that. Asante Samuel is the best cornerback the Patriots have. And it would be a shame not to keep this talent for years to come.

Plus I hope everyone knows the recievers he virtually went 1 on 1 with this year.

I love Asante. IMHO he is a top 20 CB in the league, and I am surprised at the large number of Pats fans that think he is a JAG. Sure his play dropped off last year when the safeties were terrible, but he was much better the second half. People then counter that Hobbs looked even better than Samuel down the stretch, and that he played with tighter coverage. My response is usually along the lines of, "Who do you think was getting more safety help over the top? Possibly the one that felt more comfortable taking more risks and playing more press coverage? Maybe the player that was starting his first few games in the NFL?"

Asante will have a very good year this year. Of that I am certain.

 

[Brownfan80]

OK, here I go.

- I think Maroney will have the overall starting job by week 6.

- on that note, I think Corey is done and will be relegated to short yardage play a la Jerome Bettis.

- I think Deion Branch won't be on the team this year.

- I think Seau will end up with at least 60 Tackles.

- As said before, I think our seconday will end jup being our achilles heel on D and will continue to give up way too many long pass plays.

I think that if you're right about all those things then you can forget making it to the AFCC, we'll struggle to make the playoffs with all of those things being true.

For the record, I don't agree with what you've said, but I think that if you're right, then we're in trouble.

 

[Brownfan80]

I love Asante. IMHO he is a top 20 CB in the league, and I am surprised at the large number of Pats fans that think he is a JAG. Sure his play dropped off last year when the safeties were terrible, but he was much better the second half. People then counter that Hobbs looked even better than Samuel down the stretch, and that he played with tighter coverage. My response is usually along the lines of, "Who do you think was getting more safety help over the top? Possibly the one that felt more comfortable taking more risks and playing more press coverage? Maybe the player that was starting his first few games in the NFL?"

Asante will have a very good year this year. Of that I am certain.

Teams picked on Starks until he was benched/IRed, then they picked on Asante instead and had the same success until our pressure picked up a bit. When they tried to pick on Hobbs it didn't work, even before the pressure came back.

When a WR runs a comeback route or a crossing pattern Safety help is not the issue. The CBs ability to stay with their WR is the issue. And Asante couldn't stay with his man last season.

On comeback routes Ellis was there and made plays. It seemed as if Asante was always 5 yards off the WR no matter what route they ran. Ellis got at least two of his INTs with NO safety in the area.

Asante got beat alot last season, and it wasn't just deep. I'd love to see the breakdown (Joyner?) of how many times each player allowed a catch or broke up the pass, and how many times each of those were because of safety help or lack thereof.

I think people would be surprised about how A) good Hobbs was. and B) how bad Asante was.

Asante was awful in 2005.

 

[AzPatsFan]

I didnt think that anyone was still alive that was at that game, other then me. Were you there, at BC, the day the stands caught on fire, or the day they called the guy out of the stands to go and dress for the game?


I spent one game, at BC, on the end of the Patriot's bench.

I knew the Fallon Ambulance driver and he had me ride shotgun one day, and we had to sit at the end of the Player's bench and be ready in case of injury.


At Fenway, I spotted, in the press box, one season for PA announcer Vin Maloney. It was not as much fun as sitting in the stands, cause of the open microphone, you had to be quiet. But, all the food was free.

Anyway, that's off topic....

I think most of Husker's pro, and cons, are on target except I believe Dillon will have an outstanding season....

I agree, STRONGLY, about Hobbs at the corner..I think he does a nice job as a NICKEL, but as a starter, I believe he will get destroyed, especially on inside slants and crossings.

Yes... I was there and what's more I was in the stands adjacent to the fire!

 

[Kdo5]

Teams picked on Starks until he was benched/IRed, then they picked on Asante instead and had the same success until our pressure picked up a bit. When they tried to pick on Hobbs it didn't work, even before the pressure came back.

When a WR runs a comeback route or a crossing pattern Safety help is not the issue. The CBs ability to stay with their WR is the issue. And Asante couldn't stay with his man last season.

On comeback routes Ellis was there and made plays. It seemed as if Asante was always 5 yards off the WR no matter what route they ran. Ellis got at least two of his INTs with NO safety in the area.

Asante got beat alot last season, and it wasn't just deep. I'd love to see the breakdown (Joyner?) of how many times each player allowed a catch or broke up the pass, and how many times each of those were because of safety help or lack thereof.

I think people would be surprised about how A) good Hobbs was. and B) how bad Asante was.

Asante was awful in 2005.

I wonder who was being picked on by #1 recievers all year without good safety help.

 

[Oswlek]

My beliefs:

* As mentioned above, not only is Asante Samuel the best CB on the Patriots, he is one of the better CBs in the league.

* Jeremy Mincey will be a very good player in a few years and will get a little playing time this year.

* Brady is the best QB in the league, but it is not by a wide margin. Even the ones that we mock are much, much better than people think. It is just that all you need is one underdeveloped area and teams will bring you down.

* Beisel will not make this team.

* The Pats D will be a top 5 unit in the league.

* Vrabel should, and will, be moved to ILB for the majority of the season. Even when Bruschi returns, the drop-off from OLB Vrabel to TBC/Mincey is not nearly as large as the drop-off from ILB Vrabel to Beisel/Gardner.

* I believe that Seau will not be in on enough plays this year to change my opinion from the above statement.

* I believe that Rodney Harrison was not only best safety in the league in 2004, he was the best player.

* Given a full offseason to prepare, NE's secondary would be fine without Harrison. But they will be great with him. I never understood the commotion around this area.

* I believe that if Bruschi misses more than 6 games this season (for any reason - not because of his wrist) my prediction of NE being a top D is in trouble.

* Sullivan will not make this team.

* Troy Brown will catch more than 40 balls.

* Watson will not live up to the lofty expectations that people have for him. He will be very good, but many people are expecting Gates part deux which I think is too much. This is not all on Watson, mind you. Look at many of the better TEs out there; what do Gonzalez, Gates and Heap have in common? They are in offenses that don't have many receiving options.

* The NE Patriots will hoist their 4th SB trophy in Miami come February 2007.

 

[Brownfan80]

I wonder who was being picked on by #1 recievers all year without good safety help.

As I stated already (I'll repeat it for your benefit) Asante was burned on every kind of route. Not every route is designed for safety help. A 7 yard comeback route is not a catch that should need safety help, yet Asante allowed those nearly every time the offense decided to throw one.

Safety last season was suspect at best. Wilson was practically a ghost, and when Hawkins came in and solidified the group he was lined up on ASANTE's side of the field for the most part.

To say that Ellis looked better because of safety help is to ignore the reality of last seasons secondary play entirely. NEITHER CB got true safety help for most of the season because the safety play was horrible. And yet Asante still looked bad, while Ellis looked good. When Asante started to look better was when HE got safety help from Hawkins on his side of the field. You explain it otherwise if you saw it differently.

 

[JR4]

I think Asante is a damned good corner, but he, like HObbs, can easily be beaten by tghe taller receivers on inside slants, merely because the receiver has, for the most part, the inside edge, and with a quality QB able to put the ball upo high enough, a smaller, in height,CB is at a distinct advantage.

Hobbs and Samuel are both solid football players, I like both of them, and am glad we have them...but the only way they have any chance at all of defending inside moves by receivers is by hard body contact, EXACTLY at the moment the ball arrives.... if they are off by one second, they will get beaten constantly. A taller DB can play the ball with hands, being able to match the height of the wideout....

I, for one, would like to see Gene Wilson at one of the corners We have some solid safeties to put back there this season, especially if Rodney plays.

DISAGREE!!!

These guys are going to just fine. If you want to put them up against
TO in his prime they may struggle a little but what DB hasn't.

This height thing is so far over blown and it is pathetic so many have
bought into it.
Guess what 6'1 CBs get beat also. Every CB does from time to time.
Excuse me if I take BB's opinion over yours but .... he believes in these
kids and believes PATs pass D is going to be better this year because
of several factor ... one of which is not height!

There is so much that makes a good pass D but height of an NFL CB is low on the priority list of things needed.

IMO, there probably isn't ONE CB that has the perfect characteristics you'd
want in a DB for example here are some things you might want.

1. Smart
2. Instictive
3. Great Hands
4. Speed
5. Outstanding Technique
6. Awareness of Ball in the air
7. Ability to read QBs
8. Ability to find and strip the ball in a Receivers hands
   before he can secure it.
9. Great Revcovery time
10. Very fast acceleration
11. Very quick reaction time
12. Great communcicator and awareness of entire defense
13. Outstanding Tackler
14. Powerful Punch and abilty to jam
15. Tall say 6'2 or better or outstanding Verticle and timing

And there are probably others but give me a guy who is 5'10 any day that
has most of these qualities over 6'2 guy who comes up lacking some these
other aspects.
You can't have everything ... in a cb that you want. The Tallness factor
does not come into play as often as other aspects of a CB's play.
If CB Tallness was so very important don't you think BB, being the genius
that he is, would have his roster peppered with 6'1, 6'2 6'3 CBs and
his starting CBs would be that height?

Also consider, if the 6'2 guy's main advatage is that if he is in the right
position for a perfectly thrown ball that is on his finger tips then I say that
is not much of an advantage because it won't happen all that often.

Well that's my rant about CB tallness. :blahblah:

 

[Oswlek]

As I stated already (I'll repeat it for your benefit) Asante was burned on every kind of route. Not every route is designed for safety help. A 7 yard comeback route is not a catch that should need safety help, yet Asante allowed those nearly every time the offense decided to throw one.

Safety last season was suspect at best. Wilson was practically a ghost, and when Hawkins came in and solidified the group he was lined up on ASANTE's side of the field for the most part.

To say that Ellis looked better because of safety help is to ignore the reality of last seasons secondary play entirely. NEITHER CB got true safety help for most of the season because the safety play was horrible. And yet Asante still looked bad, while Ellis looked good. When Asante started to look better was when HE got safety help from Hawkins on his side of the field. You explain it otherwise if you saw it differently.

I am not disputing that Asante played poorly during the secondary's tour of Hades last year.

However, just because Hawkins lined up on Asante's side does not mean that he was covering deep routes for Samuel. He could have had several other responsibilities with higher priority. I have seen a few plays broken down (I believe on NFL matchup) where Samuel was left on his own while Hobbs had help. Did this happen every play? I don't know, but I doubt it. However, I would be very surprised if someone could show me that Hobbs was left alone even half of the amount that Samuel was.