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"I am not poor because"...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. PatsFanInVa

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    Here's a quick reality check.

    I just saw the "I am not poor because" thread and thought this for the umpteenth time:

    Wait, I am poor.

    Net worth, all-in, I won't go into details... but yes, I am poor.

    I've got good credit, I've got good cash-flow, but full disclosure folks, if I didn't, I'd be up sh1t's creek. Subtract my debt from the value of the things I own, and um yeah, it turns out I'm a poor man with a six-figure salary.

    So if you were plinking along on a lower salary, and just kept renting during the two thousandsies, ya got more than I do.

    What did people actually do in the two thousandsies? An awful lot did what I did, with the assurance that real estate really didn't actually lose value that often, and that when it did, it tanked by 10%, locally, then recovered in a couple years.

    Everybody's got their own story. But I wonder for how many the answer is

    "I'm not poor because... I consider income, credit, and the ability to catch up to be 'wealth'."
     
  2. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    The fact you have a roof over your head, and you have a job, and your not needing to make any sort of hard decisions on whether which essential item you need... means you aren't poor.

    That thread of mine had nothing to do about "I am rich because"... your right, if I lost my income, In less than a year, I am poor... but that buffer keeps getting larger the hard I work at saving and working.

    And that is what it's all about.
     
  3. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Poor person with a six-figure salary... so why don't you want to have your taxes lowered?
     
  4. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    There are very few people in this country who are poor. The term is used to create political class warfare. Anyone thinking what we see here is poor is missing it. Poor can be seen around the world ... mainly in 3rd world countries where humans are lucky to get a bowl of rice and a few cups of filthy water per day.

    The poorest person in this country still has access to food, shelter, healthcare, education, clothing etc... There are enough government and charitable organizations here to make sure all are cared for.

    How many millions in other countries can say the same?

    I am not poor because I live in the USA.
     
  5. khayos

    khayos In the Starting Line-Up

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    Our poor people are fat. That's how good we got it.
     
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Yes, and that's exactly what the Republicans are trying to take away, isn't it?
     
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Oh cool....and we all know how healthy "fat" is, don't we?
     
  8. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    They are? I missed the "close charities" bill.

    Is this it?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/business/economy/white-house-offers-tax-plan-for-jobs-bill.html
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    What do people who make over $250,000 have to do with "the poorest," and the governmental and charitable agencies which provide food, shelter, healthcare, education, clothing etc for them?

    Obama is not the one trying to do away with extended unemployment benefits, trying to dictate how many children welfare will pay for or abolish Planned Parenthood and it's low-cost health care for the poor. He;s not the one coming up with plans like 9-9-9 which will tax the poor at a much higher rate than the rich. He's not the one demanding that everyone, even the poorest of the poor, pay federal income taxes.
     
  10. khayos

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    Hang on -- you just said you're making six figures and poor -- but someone making $250,000 is six figures too... and instantly not poor? Would you be "rich" if they bumped your income to that level?
     
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So now someone who earns a six-figure salary is "poor"? My oh my how far we have fallen. Such a person might have "poor" spending habits, or "poor" financial acumen, but they aren't "poor" in the proper sense of the term.
     
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

  13. khayos

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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    And many of you would like them to pay less than they do now in taxes - and you want that to be offset by cutting government aid programs in education, health care, food stamps and welfare payments.

    Most "poor" people on welfare get the bulk of their assistance from government aid rather than from individual charitable donors.
     
  15. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    You'll have to take it up with those people. I was addressing the impact that this will have on charities.

    I prefer charities for most of this because government does such a bad job.

    I guess it depends on what you mean by "assistance". I'd say the number one support for most people is their family. No numbers available for that, though.
     
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I'd say that most poor people come from poor families.
     
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    That's one of them.

    This is why we shouldn't count on making up the shortfall on "closing loopholes."

    Worse yet, any species of "ultra simple" flat tax that comes from SIM city or fits on a postcard.

    I've said this a hundred times: There are deductions, and there are deductions.

    You need the charitable contribution deduction, or you just get a big chunk of new social services spending. And if you think parks smell bad with OWS guys in them, you just think about everybody marginal filling those parks overnight.

    The "radical surgery" approach always sounds good until you look at what's in it.

    Obama's limiting the charitable deduction in his proposal. Cain, along w/every "flat tax" enthusiast in the GOP, would eliminate it by definition.

    Oh by the way, they also can't do the math, and keep floating "ideas" that cost money to implement.

    So lay off the jiu jitsu, B5. You know the real deal as well as I. There's "bad" and "worse" out there right now.

    It's worthwhile for us to consider the importance of keeping what we can of the safety net we have.

    But really? You're going to hold up the Obama tax policy as harder on charitable giving?

    Compared to what?

    PFnV
     
  18. PatsFanInVa

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    It's good to see some answers here. I note that the correct answer has been given here -- I am not poor because I do have a job to go to, good credit, and cashflow.

    Therefore, I have the roof over my head. I can look around at the lifestyle of people not in debt but without a pot to piss in, compare our lifestyles, and say to myself "what the hell are you even talking about? Of course that guy's poorer than you."

    Or, I can do what Pubbies love to do: I can say "numbers don't lie. I have a negative net worth... I need a tax holiday until I catch up to the homeless."

    So 2 things here:

    1) "Numbers do lie." Don't get simplistic. When we discuss big picture stuff bear that in mind. "TL; DR" doesn't cut it when you're dealing with an economic situation that includes future developments.

    2) I notice once again that our local righties amusedly say "A poor guy with a 6-figure income?" LOL. Of course not -- but it's interesting to note the change in tone when we talk tax policy.

    Then, when we talk about the the notion that we should increase taxes on the well-off, it's a different story. A recent example: the idea that we'd tax 4% more beginning with the amount I'd be making if you doubled my salary. On dollars 1-250K, no change; on dollar # 250,001, I pay 4 more cents.

    Then, 250K is nothing.

    One good answer here is you aren't poor because if you're on the borderline of poor there's a safety net here.

    That's exactly what the right has been targeting.

    The "Ayn Rand" model -- you are good and virtuous in direct proportion to the money you make, and everybody else can go to hell -- is precisely the model in operation in third-world kleptocracies.

    One more thing to think about: Why does the American middle class feel so abused just in general? I think because 30% of homes are underwater and Americans still don't have much in savings, and have a ton of credit card and loan debt. Think of what that does to net worth. I'm probably not the only one that looks around at the guy living on the park bench and says "damn. On paper, I'm broker than his broke ass."

    That feeling can swing right-wing, and it can swing left-wing. It's just average people saying "I'm doing my part. I'm busting my hump. I'm needed where I work... but getting to the next rung in the ladder seems impossible. The ladder's not really there like it once was."

    You can't sell Ayn Rand to people who think that no matter what they do, they'll be frozen out.

    You can't keep peddling an "American Dream" once people wake up. You have to fight for that dream, and the American part isn't the part where someone gets rich. It's the part where anybody can do it. Or, at the very least, can achieve a modicum of comfort in their own life.

    Last night's elections show that the U.S. likes having a middle class, and did not turn into an army of zombie ideologues one year ago.

    Now that's "taking our country back."

    :)

    PFnV

    PS - Oh yeah and by the way -- tax me. Just make it fair and tax everybody else who makes what I do or more.

    PPS - I mean on top of what's already been taken from employees of Uncle Sam. COLAs for beneficiaries of gubmit services are back. Studies show the private sector is overpaying compared w/government. Yet we continue to complain about the "overpaid" feds - whose salaries remain frozen by and large.

    Me? I'll take the hit for my country. But it makes it that much more nauseating to see poor-mouthing rich guys that make multiples of what I do, not to re-mention the aforementioned net-worth gap.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  19. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    I am Middle-class America.

    I am the backbone of America

    My sons & daughters died to protect this country.

    We built the roads, bridges and aquaducts that pump the lifeblood of America to all it's extremities.

    What thanks do I get?

    I am being squeezed beyond all rational explanation.

    My people have paid our dues and we have always paid our fair share...do not ask us to pay any more.

    It is as if America has turned her back on me and my children.

    Speaking for all middle class Americans, I ask our elected officials...no, I demand them....

    Not to raise taxes on me and my family. For to do so would be treasonous!
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2011
  20. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    It would be a little more effective if you actually had children.

    As it is:

    [​IMG]
     

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