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Hypothetical question about franchise tags

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by captain stone, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Let's say, for instance, that a team's WR was entering the final year of his rookie contract.

    He was the team's #1 WR, but because part of the team's offensive philosphy is to throw to the open man on every play, he didn't have the catch/yardage #s to be paid like a #1 WR.

    So he sits out the first 10 weeks of the regular season, to either force a trade or have his team rip up the last year of his rookie contract and sign him to a deal more representative of his perceived abilities.

    The team does neither, because it does not want to set a dangerous precedent; and also because it does not have quality depth at his position, and feels that 6+ weeks of this WR and a legit shot at a SB, plus a compensatory pick, is better than 0 weeks and a draft pick in the 3rd quarter of the first round.

    So the season ends, and as soon as it is allowed, the team applies the franchise tag to the WR.

    My questions are:

    Can the team then trade the WR?

    And then, having done so before the deadline to apply franchise tags, can the team re-apply the tag to another player, such as, for instance, its #1 CB?

    Just curious...
     
  2. rabthepat

    rabthepat 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    If the team did not designate him with the franchise tag he and his agent could go and solicit offers from other teams and the Pats would have to match it or lose him. That is pretty much what Deion Branch did. So the team would not take the risk of not designating the restricted free agent as a franchise player.


    Can the team then trade the WR? - No, he would then be an unrestricted free agent and be able to go where he wanted to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007
  3. Patstopia

    Patstopia Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    I'm not sure any of this is correct.
    Would he not be a unrestricted free agent if he was not franchised? Which would allow him to go to any team. After all it was the end of his rookie contract which usually are at least 4-5 years.
    Also Branch was in the last year of his contract and was threatening to sit out till week 10, the Pats allowed him to look, they could of just let him sit if they wanted.
    I am not sure about the rules of trading a Franchised player. So I have no answer for the original question.
     
  4. rabthepat

    rabthepat 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Here are rules for free agents and franchise tags. The NFL Players Collective Bargaining Agreement has specified dates in it for all transactions to occur by with cut off dates. I do not believe the Team could do to the player the scenario that you describe because of the cut off dates.


    http://www.askthecommish.com/freeagency/
     
  5. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    The Branch situation was entirely different. He was still under contract with the Patriots and as such, no other team could even talk to him without permission from the Pats. The Pats did give him permission to negotiate a trade and see what other teams would offer.
     
  6. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LOL...that's an understatement.

    If the team did not designate the WR as their franchise player, he is an unrestricted FA. There is no matching offers, although we would always be free to try to...usually signing a player at that juncture requires exceeding others offers.

    A restricted FA is ONLY a 4th year player whose contract has expired (i.e. a 3 rookie year deal). Deion was never going to be a RFA because he was signed for 5 years and had completed 4 years of service prior to 2006. Givens was a RFA in 2005 because as a 7th rounder he was only originally signed to a 3 year deal. Teams "control" the rights to players they sign until they have completed 4 years of service whether they are under contract or not. Provided that player is no longer under contract if they "tender" that player a qualifying offer for year 4, they have the right to match any written offer he gets OR accept draft compensation (tied to the $$ level of the offer) from the team who signs him. If nobody offers him a contract he remains the property of the team who can either withdraw their tender or lower it to 110% of his previous salary if he hasn't signed it by a certain time. And if a RFA holds out to week 10 he is screwed as he cannot play in the league then for the balance of the season which means he cannot get his 4th year credit and he would find himself in the exact same position the following season.

    A team can trade a Franchise Player only if he agrees to sign his tag to cooperate/facilitate the trade. If he refuses to sign it, his rights remain with his former team but those rights per se can't be traded (he can't be traded unsigned and the right to tag him can't be traded to the receiving team). You get 1 tag a season and the only way you could tag more than 1 player is if you withdraw the tag on player 1 (say you got a long term deal done with player 1 in a few days) before the deadline you are free to use it on another (from what I can tell).

    So if the point of the original post was would we have had to make a choice had Deion and Asante both been available here as UFA in 2007 or could we still have found a way to use the tag on both of them with Deion still ultimately getting traded for that 1st rounder in April, the answer is yes and no - yes we would have had to choose one to tag and the other would have been free to walk (same as Graham ultimately was) and no there was no way to tag them both while still trading one of them.
     
  7. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Please see
    http://www.patscap.com/franchise.pdf

    The CBA is rather explicit in the number of franchise tags.

    "Except as set forth in Section 10 below, each Club shall be permitted to designate one of its players who would otherwise be an Unrestricted Free Agent as a Franchise Player each season during the term of this Agreement. The player so designated may be one who would otherwise be a Restricted Free Agent."

    Section 10 talks about a team being able to place a franchise tag now for a player who would be an UFA in a future offseason. Example, the Patriots could now place the 2009 franchise tag on Warren because Warren is due to be an UFA in 2009.

    As it stands rightt now , please note that the deadline to place the franchise tag comes BEFORE the trading period begins. There has been some talk of moving up the trading period.​
     
  8. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    But what if the NEP slapped Branch with the Franchise tag on the first day available, then traded him and re-applied the tag to Samuel before the cut-off date?

    If not, then could they have applied the Transition tag, traded him, then applied the Franchise tag to Samuel before the cut-off date?

    If I read the Ask the Commish page correctly, can a team designate only one player per year, as either a Franchise or Transition player?

    What I'm trying to ask is: Could we have had our cake, and eaten it too?
    That is, could the NEP have used Meion for the final 6+ weeks, tagged him, traded him (would Seattle have given up #24?), and still have been able to tag GetPaid? This would have been the ultimate best-case scenario.

    I know this is beating a dead horse, my apologies; but this has been itching me for the last ten months.
     
  9. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    First day to tag a player was February 8th.
    The last day was February 22nd,

    The 1st day to trade a player was March 2nd.

    Your scenario was simply impossible even if a team could tag two players in 2007 which they can't.
     
  10. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Thanks, Mo and Miguel.
    The fact that the trading period doesn't begin until after the Franchise/Transition deadline ends makes my supposition moot.
    It would have been either Meion or GetPaid, and if the $$ were close, then I choose to tag the CB.

    One last question: What are the current $$ amounts for Franchise WRs and CBs?
     
  11. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 2007 franchise figures: Quarterback, $12.615 million; Offensive line, $9.556 million;Defensive End, $8.644 million; Cornerback, $7.79 million; Wide Receiver, $7.613 million;Linebacker, $7.206 million; Running Back, $6.999 million; Defensive Tackle, $6.775 million; Safety, $4.49 million; Tight End, $4.371 million; and Kicker/Punter, $2.078 million.
     
  12. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Thanks again.

    CB and WR are indeed close enough to not be a big factor in deciding whom to franchise.

    I will still choose GetPaid, not because he is that superior of an overall football player, but because he plays a position that we have only one other player who combines talent and youth (Hobbs). Besides, good CBs are harder to find than good WRs, esp. in this offense.
     

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