Hypocrite Dungy Slams the Patriots

[Deus Irae]

So now you're saying it wasn't proven that it was unbearably hot in the dome that day? Despite everybody's reports that it was.

No, I'm saying that the Colts were cleared of wrongdoing.

And what does that have to do with this thread?

Dungy hasn't been found to be in violation of the rules. talking about winning without cheating is, therefore, not hypocritical.

You think that Belichick is still stealing signals?

I would hope so. Steal signals is not against the rules.

The point is, Dungy is making a moral argument about cheating and referring to the Patriots as cheaters. Meanwhile, he employs people who cheated in the past, as Belichick has. If he has a moral problem, then maybe he should call out his own cheaters the way he has called out Belichick.

Also, the heat. You can't deny that.

Of course I can. Your argument has no merit because Dungy has not been found guilty of wrongdoing.

 

[upstater1]

No, I'm saying that the Colts were cleared of wrongdoing.


Umm, were they even investigated for this? Did the Patriots' whine?

Dungy hasn't been found to be in violation of the rules. talking about winning without cheating is, therefore, not hypocritical.


I don't understand your use of the word "therefore." One doesn't have much to do with the other. For instance, the Phins weren't found in violation of the rules either. Yet if Saban and company gave a speech about the Patriots and the proper way to win, they'd still be hypocrites. I don't understand the link you're making.


Of course I can. Your argument has no merit because Dungy has not been found guilty of wrongdoing.

Read my comments above. You haven't disproved anything by citing official NFL findings of wrongdoing. The NFL is now the best arbiter, obviously. The fact is, we all know the dome was insufferably hot on a January day. We all know that Dungy hasn't called out Mudd for his prior cheating.

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[Deus Irae]

I don't understand your use of the word "therefore." One doesn't have much to do with the other. For instance, the Phins weren't found in violation of the rules either. Yet if Saban and company gave a speech about the Patriots and the proper way to win, they'd still be hypocrites. I don't understand the link you're making.

The essence of hypocrisy is doing something while telling others not to, or not doing something while telling others to do it. Here is the Dictionary.com definition, just for example:

1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

Now, Dungy is free to make all the "cheat" references he wishes to without being hypocritical, as long as he's not cheating. And, to the best of our knowledge, Dungy is not cheating. The NFL has cleared the Colts in the crowd noise issues, for example.

No matter how many times you make claims like "but this guy knows this other guy who says it was really hot", you won't reach the point of proving wrongdoing.

As for the Saban comment, I have no idea what you're talking about there, but I can't see a single way in which hypocrisy would be involved.

Read my comments above. You haven't disproved anything by citing official NFL findings of wrongdoing. The NFL is now the best arbiter, obviously. The fact is, we all know the dome was insufferably hot on a January day. We all know that Dungy hasn't called out Mudd for his prior cheating.

None of this makes Dungy a hypocrite. Your argument has no merit.

 

[NEPatriot]

None of this makes Dungy a hypocrite.

Tell me how Dungy is not a hypocrite when he is still with Colts after telling everybody that he was going to retire 3 times in 3 different seasons because he wanted to spend quality time with his family or whatever.? Perhaps, the reason he wanted to retire was his underachievement?

There are clear differences between one person who feels guilty when 'cheating' and another who is proud of it because he 'is NOT' caught.

You know who you are. If you don't know the differences, you seriously have some 'character' issues.

A thieve is still a thieve whether you are caught or not. Please don't come here and tell everybody how 'noble' Dungy is because he is not 'caught'. You and other arsholes in medias like to put down BB while enhancing your image at the same time.

As far as i'm concerned, Dungy or any NFL coach out there is not any 'better' than BB. If BB wants to make a big deal out of it, Dungy will be on the list as well.

 

[upstater1]

The essence of hypocrisy is doing something while telling others not to, or not doing something while telling others to do it.

Thanks I know the definition very well without referring to a dictionary. And you missed the part where you can espouse certain views while not applying them equally. That's also hypocritical. In other words, it's not only what you do, it's also what you say and think.


Now, Dungy is free to make all the "cheat" references he wishes to without being hypocritical, as long as he's not cheating. And, to the best of our knowledge, Dungy is not cheating. The NFL has cleared the Colts in the crowd noise issues, for example.

But not the heat issue.

No matter how many times you make claims like "but this guy knows this other guy who says it was really hot", you won't reach the point of proving wrongdoing.

Only a blind man would deny it.

As for the Saban comment, I have no idea what you're talking about there, but I can't see a single way in which hypocrisy would be involved.

You made the comment that Dungy wasn't found guilty of wrongdoing. Well, neither were Saban's Dolphins. But they admitted wrongdoing. If they had piled on Belichick the way Dungy did, they would have been massive hypocrites. You see? You don't have to be found guilty of wrongdoing to be a massive hypocrite. You can cheat and not get caught.

None of this makes Dungy a hypocrite. Your argument has no merit.

I've blown your argument out of the water countless times here.

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[captain stone]

After much thought and thorough analysis, my informed opinion of this matter is:

Eff Saint Tony Dungheap to hell. I wish for nothing but bad things to happen to him, and to the Irsays, NaPolian and all the Mannings, and to any-and-everyone who roots for the Hayseedapolis Dolts to succeed.

At least, that's the conclusion at which my thorough analysis of the matter has arrived.

 

[Deus Irae]

Thanks I know the definition very well without referring to a dictionary. And you missed the part where you can espouse certain views while not applying them equally. That's also hypocritical. In other words, it's not only what you do, it's also what you say and think.

I didn't miss anything. That doesn't apply, and you'd know that if you knew the definition as well as you claim you do.

But not the heat issue.

Again, you are making the emotional leap from unfounded accusations to decided fact. That is not the case.

Only a blind man would deny it.

That's just a ridiculous post, especially given that the same argument could have been made about the crowd noise prior to the NFL's investigation.

Well, neither were Saban's Dolphins. But they admitted wrongdoing. If they had piled on Belichick the way Dungy did, they would have been massive hypocrites. You see? You don't have to be found guilty of wrongdoing to be a massive hypocrite. You can cheat and not get caught.

Here's the difference..... What the Dolphins did was not against the rules. What the Patriots did was ruled to be against the rules. There's no hypocrisy on Saban's part in your example. You apparently don't understand the definition of that word despite your claim to the contrary.

I've blown your argument out of the water countless times here.

You lead a rich fantasy life and need to study your dictionary.

 

[PatsFan24]

tape or no tape. ty law will forever own marvin harrison and peyton manning

 

[upstater1]

I didn't miss anything. That doesn't apply, and you'd know that if you knew the definition as well as you claim you do.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
hy·poc·ri·sy Audio Help (hĭ-pŏk'rĭ-sē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies

1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

I was right, you were wrong. The word applies to sentiment and to action. You need to learn to read the dictionary better.

Again, you are making the emotional leap from unfounded accusations to decided fact. That is not the case.

What is the emotion? What are you talking about? I have no emotions on this. I know the dome was hot as hell because the annluncers reported that it was, and then Colts fans said it was hotter than ever before. Phil Simms even took a temperature reading in the mid 80s. You have no clue what you are talking about.


Here's the difference..... What the Dolphins did was not against the rules. What the Patriots did was ruled to be against the rules. There's no hypocrisy on Saban's part in your example. You apparently don't understand the definition of that word despite your claim to the contrary.

So stealing signals off tape is not against the rules? You're confused. very confused. Not to mention the fact that you missed the point again. You can be an admitted cheater without being caught for wrongdoing. You can cheat, and the NFL may not catch you or punish you. Jimmy Johnson, for instance. He claimed he videotaped coaches signals. If he turned around and blasted the Patriots, he'd be a hypocrite. Question for you: was Jimmy Johnson ever found guilty of wrongdoing by the NFL? No. Everyone but you understands the basic argument.

You lead a rich fantasy life and need to study your dictionary.

Everyone can learn to use and study the dictionary. However, it's obvious that I'm the one that knew what the word hypocrite meant, and I didn't even need to cite the dictionary to explain it. At least you learned one thing today: hypocrisy deals with more than simple actions. It includes beliefs and sentiments as well. Now go outside and play.

 

[Deus Irae]

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
hy·poc·ri·sy Audio Help (hĭ-pŏk'rĭ-sē) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies

1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.

I was right, you were wrong. The word applies to sentiment and to action. You need to learn to read the dictionary better.

I wasn't wrong at all. Why do you insist on arguing points where you're clearly in error?

I know the dome was hot as hell because the annluncers reported that it was, and then Colts fans said it was hotter than ever before. Phil Simms even took a temperature reading in the mid 80s. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Here you go again, making arguments that do nothing about your point. It doesn't matter what the temperature was in the dome. It could have been 120 degrees. A hot dome doesn't prove the Colts cheated. The Colts have not been found guilty of the violations you keep asserting. You can keep asserting them until you die at the ripe old age of 4,325 years. Your assertions will still not convert into violations.

So stealing signals off tape is not against the rules? You're confused. very confused. Not to mention the fact that you missed the point again. You can be an admitted cheater without being caught for wrongdoing. You can cheat, and the NFL may not catch you or punish you. Jimmy Johnson, for instance. He claimed he videotaped coaches signals. If he turned around and blasted the Patriots, he'd be a hypocrite. Question for you: was Jimmy Johnson ever found guilty of wrongdoing by the NFL? No. Everyone but you understands the basic argument.

No, stealing signals off tape is not against the rules. Recording signals from proscribed areas, using proscribed equipment, is against the rules. I'm not the one who's confused. You're not using your head.

I don't know why this seems so difficult for you. Let me try one last time:

1.) I don't call BB a cheater. I think his interpretation of the rule makes sense.

2.) I think Goodell is incompetent and should be fired. The Patriots should have gotten nothing more than a slap on the wrist, accompanied by a warning that the rule had been clarified and subsequent violations would result in severe punishment for any wrongdoers.

3.) Belichick should have called the NFL for clarification after the memo came out. All this could have been avoided had he just done that one simple thing and then followed Commissioner Clouseau's ruling at that time. Any disagreement Belichick might have had about that ruling could have been brought up during the appropriate meetings at a later date.

4.) We know that other teams have taped signals in similar manner throughout the past decades, and it's never resulted in anything like this.

HOWEVER

1.) The Patriots were found to be guilty of violating the rules.

2.) While I don't use the word "cheat", it can be honestly used in this situation if you view things from a different perspective.

3.) The Colts have not been found guilty of any sort of equivalent violations during Dungy's tenure there.

4.) The Colts were the object of an investigation by the league and were cleared of wrongdoing.

5.) The Colts have not been found guilty of wrongfully taping opponents' signals during the Dungy/Mudd era.

6.) It's not hypocrisy to preach against something and then not do it. This is, to the best of your knowledge and mine, the Dungy situation.

7.) You clearly still don't grasp what hypocrisy is, since you keep insisting that Dungy has somehow engaged in it.

 

[ALP]

its easy to avoid being caught when ur GM is in the competition committee, isnt it?

 

[upstater1]

I wasn't wrong at all. Why do you insist on arguing points where you're clearly in error?

How am I in error? I said in my original post that it's not only about what you do, but what you think and profess, your beliefs. You said I didn't know the definition of hypocrisy, I provided proof to you that I knew the exact definition, and that you didn't. You're in error.

Here you go again, making arguments that do nothing about your point. It doesn't matter what the temperature was in the dome. It could have been 120 degrees. A hot dome doesn't prove the Colts cheated. The Colts have not been found guilty of the violations you keep asserting. You can keep asserting them until you die at the ripe old age of 4,325 years. Your



Found guilty? That's all you care about. You're one of the knuckleheads that believes OJ Simpson.

No, stealing signals off tape is not against the rules. Recording signals from proscribed areas, using proscribed equipment, is against the rules. I'm not the one who's confused. You're not using your head.

Again, you're confused. The Phins made the tape. And again you ignored the main point which is that someone can admit cheating without being punished. I gave you the Jimmy Johnson example and you ignored it. I know why. You're intellectually dishonest.

 

[Deus Irae]

How am I in error? I said in my original post that it's not only about what you do, but what you think and profess, your beliefs. You said I didn't know the definition of hypocrisy, I provided proof to you that I knew the exact definition, and that you didn't. You're in error.

You should probably go back and re-read the exchanges from the beginning. Your arguments about this are wrong, and have been for multiple posts now. The part of the definition you keep trying to use doesn't apply to the Dungy situation.

Found guilty? That's all you care about. You're one of the knuckleheads that believes OJ Simpson.

No, I think O.J. is guilty. Then again, I have a verdict in a wrongful death case when it comes down to Mr. Simpson.

Again, you're confused. The Phins made the tape. And again you ignored the main point which is that someone can admit cheating without being punished. I gave you the Jimmy Johnson example and you ignored it. I know why. You're intellectually dishonest.

1.) What tape are you claiming the Dolphins made?

2.) Jimmy Johnson has nothing to do with whether or not Dungy is being a hypocrite. Find evidence that Mudd has gotten opponents' signals through means which violate the NFL rules since he's become a member of the Colts and been on Dungy's staff and you'll have a point. Until then, you've got nothing.

3.) Have you shown any rule that would have been violated by having a higher than normal temperature in the dome? No, you haven't. Thus, even if you had a point (which you don't), you wouldn't have made that point.

4.) Calling me intellectually dishonest just because you can't properly grasp, and properly use, the term hypocrisy is just laziness and CYA on your part. You have accused Dungy of things that you cannot prove, and you are calling me intellectually dishonest. That's pretty weak on your part, to put it kindly.

 

[upstater1]

You should probably go back and re-read the exchanges from the beginning. Your arguments about this are wrong, and have been for multiple posts now. The part of the definition you keep trying to use doesn't apply to the Dungy situation.

It absolutely does. Dungy blasts stealing signals by tape in one instance, and condones it in another. If he called out Mudd for his past transgressions, then he wouldn't be a hypocrite. Dungy does not hold it against his own guy. You're wrong.

No, I think O.J. is guilty. Then again, I have a verdict which says he was.

You must be the only person in America who doesn't realize that OJ Simpson was not convicted of murdering his ex-wife.

1.) What tape are you claiming the Dolphins made?


An audiotape of the Patriots offensive signals.

2.) Jimmy Johnson has nothing to do with whether or not Dungy is being a hypocrite. Find evidence that Mudd has gotten opponents' signals through means which violate the NFL rules since he's become a member of the Colts and been on Dungy's staff and you'll have a point. Until then, you've got nothing.

I don't need evidence. Johnson called him out and called him the Dean of videotaping. Mudd didn't defend himself from the charge.

Here's what you wrote: Jimmy Johnson has nothing to do with whether or not Dungy is being a hypocrite

Yet another example of your intellectual dishonesty. No one here said Jimmy Johnson had something to do with Tony Dungy. The Johnson case simply shows that your theory about hypocrisy is ludicrous. You wrote that someone has to have been caught in the act and convicted of wrongdoing. I gave you Johnson as an example that disproves that theory since we know Johnson is a videotape signal stealer and he hasn't been found of any wrongdoing. There goes your theory, blown out of the water.


3.) Have you shown any rule that would have been violated by having a higher than normal temperature in the dome? No, you haven't. Thus, even if you had a point (which you don't), you wouldn't have made that point.

What does this have to do with rules? I'm talking about Dungy and his sanctimonious idiocy telling kids that you shouldn't cheat and naming Belichick. The Colts change conditions on their homefield so that there's an unequal advantage for them as they can perpare knowing what's coming. When the Patriots did this with the sod on the field, the NFL ordered them to lay down new grass and it cost them millions. I can give a hoot less whether the NFL thinks this is cheating. For me it's obvious cheating when you improve your chances of winning by creating two different sets of conditions for you and the opponent. You gain an unnatural advantage over them, and that's what the Colts do, not to mention the Colts employee who has wired the speakers and spoken up about it.

4.) Calling me intellectually dishonest just because you can't properly grasp, and properly use, the term hypocrisy is just laziness and CYA on your part. You have accused Dungy of things that you cannot prove, and you are calling me intellectually dishonest. That's pretty weak on your part, to put it kindly.

Again you're intellectually dishonest here. I called you that because you keep conflating arguments. Either you're stupid or you're intellectually dishonest. I was being kind. Obviously anyone who reads this realizes I have a much better grasp of the definition than you do.

 

[Deus Irae]

It absolutely does. Dungy blasts stealing signals by tape in one instance, and condones it in another. If he called out Mudd for his past transgressions, then he wouldn't be a hypocrite. Dungy does not hold it against his own guy. You're wrong.

Where did Dungy condone getting signals in a manner which violates NFL rules?

Oh, right. He never did and you're just making things up.

You must be the only person in America who doesn't realize that OJ Simpson was not convicted of murdering his ex-wife.

No, you may be one of the 4 who don't realize that he lost a civil suit for wrongful death, though

An audiotape of the Patriots offensive signals.

1.) What was done wasn't against the rules

2.) The Dolphins purportedly bought the tape, they did not make it.

I don't need evidence.

That says everything about your argument, right there.

Yet another example of your intellectual dishonesty. No one here said Jimmy Johnson had something to do with Tony Dungy. The Johnson case simply shows that your theory about hypocrisy is ludicrous.

Hiring someone who was taping 10 years ago is not the same as instructing your staff to tape in a manner that's considered a violation of the rules and getting caught. How difficult is that for you to grasp?

What does this have to do with rules? I'm talking about Dungy and his sanctimonious idiocy telling kids that you shouldn't cheat and naming Belichick. The Colts change conditions on their homefield so that there's an unequal advantage for them as they can perpare knowing what's coming.

This is nothing but an accusation on your part, and it's about something you can't even show is a rule violation. The crowd noise accusation was even found without merit by an NFL investigation. Talk about being intellectually dishonest. You win the crown.

As for calling me stupid... please. Your arguments are absurd and you should be embarrassed to be putting them forth. You should be ashamed of the fact that you're making things up just so you can call someone else a hypocrite. That's pathetic. Maybe RichPats is right about you, after all.

 

[stcjones]

Dungy is who he is, a avg coach, who got lucky to win at least one super bowl.. Thank god he was coaching against lovie smith, another soft coach..

Amen.....if this d-bag didn't have Peyton.....He would be out of the league by now.......He is an embarrassment in making these kinds of comments.....so Tony, I suppose it is ok to pipe in crowd noise....and turn the temp way up in the dome (after your team practiced all week in that environment)..........but who's talking about that kind of stuff?........what a jackbag......

 

[upstater1]

Where did Dungy condone getting signals in a manner which violates NFL rules?

By hiring a known taper of stolen signals, and never preaching to kids about all the wrong things Mudd does, he condones it. Mudd is as bad as Belichick.

No, you may be one of the 4 who don't realize that he lost a civil suit for wrongful death, though

You have a big problem with words and their meanings. I wrote CONVICTED. When you lose in civil court, it's called a loss. It's not called a conviction. Look up the word conviction in a dictionary. I'm now starting to doubt that you even own one. The fact is, OJ Simpson killed his ex-wife, but he was not convicted of that crime. You're the only person I've come across that believes otherwise.


1.) What was done wasn't against the rules

I never brought up rules. I said it was cheating. No other team except the Colts goes to such lengths to raise the heat, so of course there wouldn't be a rule on it. If Belichick figured out a way to circumvent the equality of play on the field, and it wasn't prohibited by the NFL, it would still be cheating. It's impossible for the NFL to predict every way in which people cheat. That's why there are new prohibitions every year. And changing the heat of a building when your team has forewarning and can adjust to it, that's cheating. That's what the Colts did. Everyone knows this. Dungy is a hypocrite.

2.) The Dolphins purportedly bought the tape, they did not make it.

You're more gullible than I thought. Bought it from who? The NFL doesn't make tapes like that. The NFL tape given to teams contains absolutely no audio. Who was filming then if not the NFL? You're telling me that a tape containing stolen signals, a tape not authorized by the NFL, was in the Phins possession? Do you believe that? If so, let me ask you this: if Goodell caught a team with a tape of stolen opponent signals, do you believe he would punish the team if they only USED the tape, but didn't produce it themselves?


That says everything about your argument, right there.


It says more about your lame argument.


Hiring someone who was taping 10 years ago is not the same as instructing your staff to tape in a manner that's considered a violation of the rules and getting caught. How difficult is that for you to grasp?

It doesn't have to be the same thing. And I never argued that Dungy did what Belichick did. You're being intellectually dishonest again. All I said is Dungy is a hypocrite for blasting a guy for taping when he never blasted THE DEAN OF TAPING. Cheating is cheating.

This is nothing but an accusation on your part, and it's about something you can't even show is a rule violation.

I've already destroyed this stupid argument of yours a thousand times. You canc heat without literally falling afoul of the rules. Giving yourself an outside advantage and unlevelling the playing field is cheating.

The crowd noise accusation was even found without merit by an NFL investigation. Talk about being intellectually dishonest. You win the crown.

Actually this is an example of YOUR intellectual dishonesty since I'm insisting on the heating cheating. The sound thing was just something that a Colts employee attested to. The fact that the NFL said that a glitch on a CBS tape didn't originate with the Colts has little to do with whether the Colts cheat or not. You're confused.


Maybe RichPats is right about you, after all.

It does not surprise me at all that you and Richpats have a lot in common.

 

[N.Eman]

Dungy is who he is, a avg coach, who got lucky to win at least one super bowl.. Thank god he was coaching against lovie smith, another soft coach..

LUCK is he's only hope. plus, his average coaching peak is SB 41 championship, im sure its decling from 07 onwards.

 

[Deus Irae]

By hiring a known taper of stolen signals, and never preaching to kids about all the wrong things Mudd does, he condones it. Mudd is as bad as Belichick.

Do you have any idea of how ignorant this quote of yours is?

Apparently not, since you keep making the same wrong assertions.

You have a big problem with words and their meanings. I wrote CONVICTED. When you lose in civil court, it's called a loss. It's not called a conviction. Look up the word conviction in a dictionary. I'm now starting to doubt that you even own one. The fact is, OJ Simpson killed his ex-wife, but he was not convicted of that crime. You're the only person I've come across that believes otherwise.

I have no problem with words and meanings, although you clearly do. Perhaps if you re-read my quotes, you'll be able to comprehend them the second time around. Here, note my responses to your query: "No, I think O.J. is guilty. Then again, I have a verdict in a wrongful death case when it comes down to Mr. Simpson.", "No, you may be one of the 4 who don't realize that he lost a civil suit for wrongful death, though"

It's pretty clear that I got the whole "civil vs. criminal" aspect into my responses. Then again, you're just showing once again that honesty is not your strong suit.

I never brought up rules. I said it was cheating.

If it's not against the rules, how is it cheating?

You're more gullible than I thought. Bought it from who?

It would be so great if you'd actually get one thing correct in this discussion:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/patriots/2006-12-13-brady-audio_x.htm

ESPN talk-show host Colin Cowherd had dedicated a portion of his program — and even took phone calls — about a report in the Palm Beach Post saying the Dolphins had purchased audio tapes of New England games.

Try getting informed about the topics you bring up. It's ridiculous that I'm having to educate you about the basic story behind allegations you are making.

I've already destroyed this stupid argument of yours a thousand times. You canc heat without literally falling afoul of the rules. Giving yourself an outside advantage and unlevelling the playing field is cheating.

This may be the the most ridiculous thing you've typed. Under your theory, hitting the weights extra diligently, using a private nutritionist to balance your meals and studying more than anyone else would be cheating. Do you even think about what you're posting?