How the Seymour trade affected the 2012 draft.

[Joey007]

I've been thinking about how I thought the Seymour trade from 09 was a big mistake, and while we did get Solder, it didn't match up to having Seymour. Then I did realize drating Solder was huge considering Light retired. But where it gets better is in the 2012 draft. Let's say we don't trade Seymour, and we don't get Solder. Then Light retires and uh-oh, we're screwed. We're then forced to use one of our 1st rounders on a left tackle, and we would've had to either trade up for Reiff or reach for a guy like Cordy Glenn, Jonathan Martin, and one of those guys would have to protect Brady's blindside from day 1. (Sounds scary, right??)

But how does this benefit the defense?? Well if we used one of our firsts on a tackle, we'd be unable to draft Chandler Jones, who plays DE, just like Seymour only different frame and skill set.

So basically, if we never made this trade we most likely wouldn't be able to get Chandler Jones in this draft. Instead of having an aging DE, we get young cornerstones of our offense and defense. I'm starting to think this trade ended up working out well after all!!

 

[Rob0729]

I don't even know if it is even worth playing this game to be perfectly honest. Who knows what would have happened if we didn't trade away Seymour. Him staying would have probably affected the Pats in many ways good and bad over the last three years.

At this point, I have moved on from the whole thing. We know the Pats got Solder in the trade. If he lives up to expectations at LT, the Pats ultimately got good to great value for Seymour when they may have only had him for one more year. I am content with that.

Personally, I don't want to start with all the other permutations of what else it might have affected especially since you are going to get reactions like "if the Pats kept Seymour, they would have won two more Super Bowls". Fact is, no one knows that or if trading Seymour had any affect on the Pats getting Jones (I mean they could have taken a LT in another round or a different draft like instead of Ras-I Dowling, they could have taken Orlando Franklin who had a pretty good rookie season at RT).

 

[supafly]

I think that Rob summed it up in a very good way, so I don't have too much to add other than it was probably extremely unlikely that Seymour would've stayed due to his contractual demands.

At the end of the day we all know that the NEP were not going to value Seymour anywhere near as high as other teams would have (OAK, and their healthy contract for example).

I just think that the 2 sides would have been substantially far apart in any negotiations, and the team felt that signing Wilfork was not only more of a priority, but also a lot cheaper.

I am sure that they expected a significant dropoff in production by letting him go, but even they probably didn't expect it to carry this far into the future. That said, choosing a high 1st rounder is pretty easy in compensation when you are expecting that player to leave anyway. Let's hope that the hole is finally filled to some extent, at a much cheaper price and upside to the future. There will probably not be another Seymour on this team for a while so we may as well move on.

 

[randomk1]

I've been thinking about how I thought the Seymour trade from 09 was a big mistake, and while we did get Solder, it didn't match up to having Seymour. Then I did realize drating Solder was huge considering Light retired. But where it gets better is in the 2012 draft. Let's say we don't trade Seymour, and we don't get Solder. Then Light retires and uh-oh, we're screwed. We're then forced to use one of our 1st rounders on a left tackle, and we would've had to either trade up for Reiff or reach for a guy like Cordy Glenn, Jonathan Martin, and one of those guys would have to protect Brady's blindside from day 1. (Sounds scary, right??)

But how does this benefit the defense?? Well if we used one of our firsts on a tackle, we'd be unable to draft Chandler Jones, who plays DE, just like Seymour only different frame and skill set.

So basically, if we never made this trade we most likely wouldn't be able to get Chandler Jones in this draft. Instead of having an aging DE, we get young cornerstones of our offense and defense. I'm starting to think this trade ended up working out well after all!!

And what if we win the SB?

 

[supafly]

And what if we win the SB?

Your point is duly noted, random. FWIW--I took the Seymour loss very hard personally, but have grown to realize that it was extremely likely that one last year of him would not have mattered that much. I could be very wrong.

It may have made a difference, it may not have. It's something that we'll never know the answer to.

Let me come back at you with THIS...What if Seymour helped them win the SB, thus paving a ride into the sunset by the greatest coach of all-time?

There are so many hypotheticals that we could continue the 'what-ifs' for ever.

(To answer my own question, I honestly can say that I would not have sacrificed Belichick for one more SB. At least not in this juncture in time anyway. My mind would likely change if it went on another few/several yrs, knowing that his end was drawing closer anyway. Keep in mind there will probably be many who would choose the SB over continued yrs of Belichick..but not this guy)

 

[Joker]

How are you going to choose "another Super Bowl" over BB?...who's the head coach then?? Rex Ryan? Herm Edwards?Pete Carroll II?Eric Mangini?

Hard to believe the casual nature of some Pats fans..."oh, Belichick is OK I guess but we could do better and could have gone to more Super Bowls with A,B.C.D......X,Y,Z"...some people just don't see greatness when it's staring them in the face.

 

[randomk1]

Your point is duly noted, random. FWIW--I took the Seymour loss very hard personally, but have grown to realize that it was extremely likely that one last year of him would not have mattered that much. I could be very wrong.

It may have made a difference, it may not have. It's something that we'll never know the answer to.

Let me come back at you with THIS...What if Seymour helped them win the SB, thus paving a ride into the sunset by the greatest coach of all-time?

There are so many hypotheticals that we could continue the 'what-ifs' for ever.

(To answer my own question, I honestly can say that I would not have sacrificed Belichick for one more SB. At least not in this juncture in time anyway. My mind would likely change if it went on another few/several yrs, knowing that his end was drawing closer anyway. Keep in mind there will probably be many who would choose the SB over continued yrs of Belichick..but not this guy)

The end goal is always to win the SB and if BB feels that it would be time to retire after #6 then i say that is his decision and we will be left in our sorrows with #4 and two solidified goats. Not a bad trade off imo. It's gonna end sooner or later so why not go out on top?

Besides...isn't the younger Belichick a coach now?

 

[mehackney]

Are we really still talking Seymour? that trade had to be made we couldn't have resigned him and Wilfork I'm glad he chose to resign Wilfork and still get something for Seymour...I know Seymour was a great player but he also had the advantage of playing with a lot of other great players that were all leaving or retiring at the same time...Since then they have been rebuilding the defense and not having a lot of luck at it...and with this partially unfinished defense they still manage to win the AFC east consistently and went to 2 SBs basically with no defense...Now they have what what many (myself included) feel is a complete defense can't wait to see how far they go with it....let the season begin!!!!!!

 

[Shockt327]

My memory may be slipping, but the Front Office knew that we were going to lose Seymour after the 2009 season anyway....

Wilfork was in his last year too. Brady was going to need to be re-signed as well after '09. 3 big pieces up for new contracts. One man out.

Oh, and I remember reports about how the Patriots were discussing Wilfork as well. But Oakland thought he was strictly 3-4. So, that's why Seymour was dealt. More value to the trading partner.

 

[Reckedtrek]

My memory may be slipping, but the Front Office knew that we were going to lose Seymour after the 2009 season anyway....

Wilfork was in his last year too. Brady was going to need to be re-signed as well after '09. 3 big pieces up for new contracts. One man out.

Oh, and I remember reports about how the Patriots were discussing Wilfork as well. But Oakland thought he was strictly 3-4. So, that's why Seymour was dealt. More value to the trading partner.

I heard that too. Thank God that never transpired. As much as losing Seymour hurt at the time, losing big Vince would have been far worse IMO.

 

[randomk1]

My memory may be slipping, but the Front Office knew that we were going to lose Seymour after the 2009 season anyway....

Wilfork was in his last year too. Brady was going to need to be re-signed as well after '09. 3 big pieces up for new contracts. One man out.

Oh, and I remember reports about how the Patriots were discussing Wilfork as well. But Oakland thought he was strictly 3-4. So, that's why Seymour was dealt. More value to the trading partner.

Since we are doing what if scenarios we might as well put the cap issues aside.

I'm pretty sure most people wouldn't be willing to pay Seymour what he got from the raiders. Though i don't think it was a bad move for them.

 

[satz]

ALL these are pointless as the entire thing is based on We did not have the CAP room or did not want to manupilate the CAP to fit them..

this entire thing is mute when no mention is made on the CAP......i think as blaming the 31 st rated defence for the problem is also mute as we did not have the cap to improve it last year too.

 

[captain insano]

How are you going to choose "another Super Bowl" over BB?...who's the head coach then?? Rex Ryan? Herm Edwards?Pete Carroll II?Eric Mangini?

Hard to believe the casual nature of some Pats fans..."oh, Belichick is OK I guess but we could do better and could have gone to more Super Bowls with A,B.C.D......X,Y,Z"...some people just don't see greatness when it's staring them in the face.

hallelujah praise jesus. can i get a amen?

 

[supafly]

How are you going to choose "another Super Bowl" over BB?...who's the head coach then?? Rex Ryan? Herm Edwards?Pete Carroll II?Eric Mangini?

Hard to believe the casual nature of some Pats fans..."oh, Belichick is OK I guess but we could do better and could have gone to more Super Bowls with A,B.C.D......X,Y,Z"...some people just don't see greatness when it's staring them in the face.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

At the end of the day the benefits outweigh the losses. Having Seymour wouldn't have helped much in 2009. That team was very limited, and the offense became crippled when Welker went down. Would have been a longshot at full strength and would have gone nowhere regardless after losing Wes. You can make somewhat of an argument that he'd have helped in 2010 and 2011 but that's a moot point because he was not going to be resigned with Wilfork and Brady due for extensions, part of the reason he was traded. So really his 2009 season was traded for a 1st and I'll gladly take that swap. People forget that even though he had a spectacular 2008 season, our pass rush overall was still crap and their rankings were actually below the 2009 defense which did not have him(both finished 11th in YA, 2009 was better in PA).

 

[RayClay]

Without going into specific scenarios, I think the Seymour situation illustrates the difference between a winning and losing situation. Seymour's a great player. Maybe he could have made the difference to winning a Super Bowl. however, it's also possible he could have made signing Wilfork not work. it's also possible he could have been injured again and that's not a knock, the guy played heroically through injuries. It's also possible (seemed likely) that pick could have been a top 5 and all the possibilities that would bring.

Some teams would have been scared of fan reaction or being blamed for "this year" that would seem to have been a guarantee with Seymour in hindsight.

Belichick trusts his (and others) judgment no matter what, which is why we had another shot, kept in contention and now have a very young talented team as good as any around.

that doesn't happen because you are afraid to make moves or let anyone go.

 

[rookBoston]

I've always thought the Seymour trade was brilliant. Sell high. We got full value for one year of Seymour. I've never questioned the decision to focus our efforts on retaining Brady and Wilfork and Mankins over Seymour.

As mentioned, the 2009 Pats were a low-point for the franchise, and was especially weak compared with the 2007 and 2011 versions... and weak not just on D. The O was Randy over the top and Wes in the slot, and that's all. Brady was bouncing back after being out all 2008, and the O was flat after losing McDaniels, Gaffney, Stallworth.

Unusually, I think it worked out for the Raiders, too, who got a soft-spoken captain and anchor for their DL.

Would have been great if the pick had been a top-10 choice (AJ Green... Patrick Peterson... can you imagine?), but Solder sure looks like a guy who could be a pro-bowler for the next decade.

 

[dex13]

my favorite what if with this trade has to do with the year of the pick...what if the pats take the 2010 first rounder instead. Number 8 overall and Pierre-Paul is available.

 

[Avenger]

On the Jets forum they are talking about Revis possibly fetching up to 3 first round picks. I want some of what they are smoking. If Seymour got us one 1st how the hell is Revis getting them three?

 

[voluntarysaftey]

On the Jets forum they are talking about Revis possibly fetching up to 3 first round picks. I want some of what they are smoking. If Seymour got us one 1st how the hell is Revis getting them three?

I could see Revis fetching 2 first round picks.
Look at our last 5 first round picks -- maroney, merriweather, mayo, mcourty, solder.

There's hits and misses in there and none of the players are close to Revis's skill level at their positions.