Welcome to PatsFans.com

How the Pats Offense Will Evolve

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mayoclinic, May 22, 2012.

?

How Do You Think the Pats Offense Will "Evolve" in 2012?

  1. Go back to a WR-dominated spread offense a la 2007-2009

    3 vote(s)
    4.4%
  2. Keep the 2010-2011 offense but upgrade the WR personnel to use the entire field

    52 vote(s)
    76.5%
  3. Create something different than what we've seen before (please specify)

    13 vote(s)
    19.1%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,677
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +414 / 0 / -2

    With all of the threads about WR competition, RB signings, potential use of FBs, 3rd and 4th TEs, etc., one thing is clear: the Pats have signed a ton of skill players this offseason, but they will have to be selective in paring down the final roster and figuring out which players to keep and what kind of an offense they want to run. I came across this article from Football Outsiders which came out just before the Super Bowl - after it was announced that Bill O'Brien was leaving and after Josh McDaniels was re-hired, but before FA and the draft. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been discussed on this site yet - as with the thread on the evolution of the defense, my apologies if I'm re-treading old ground. Since the article is Insider content, I'm posting most (but not all) of it:

    How the New England Patriots' offense has evolved - NFL - ESPN

    It's a pretty simplistic analysis. And the Pats did indeed sign Brandon Lloyd in the offseason. But if all they were trying to do was achieve what the FO article suggests, then I'm not sure about why they did the following:

    - Signed RB Joseph Addai. Depth or injury injurance for Vereen/Ridley, or does it signal more of an involvement of the running game.
    - Signed FBs Tony Fiammetta and Spencer Larsen.
    - Signed Jabar Gaffney, Donte Stallworth and Anthony Gonzalez in addition to Lloyd.
    - Added TE Daniel Fells.

    I'm not sure what BB and Josh McDaniels are ultimately going to be cooking on offense. But it seems more elaborate than just tweaking the spread offense to use the TEs with Hernandez lining up at WR more often.

    How do people think the offense will evolve? Will Josh McD go back to the spread? Will he keep the offense basically as is but tweak it a bit with more of an outside threat? Or will the offense be something different from either 2007-2009 or 2010-2011?
  2. nabwong

    nabwong PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    I'd love to see a 2 RB, 2 TE offense. I believe we have 4 backs that are capable of playing back or wide. Forget the big nickel, BB will force teams to play big dime.
  3. RelocatedPatFan

    RelocatedPatFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2009
    Messages:
    2,309
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    I wonder if the competition committee will be proud of what they helped create (offensive juggernauts) or start tweaking the rules to take away some of those advantages.

    While the offense should be high octane, I really want to see what happens of defense.
  4. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    1,746
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    New England's transition from the 3 receiver set to the 2 TE set probably has a lot more to do with losing Moss and gaining Hernandez/Gronk than it does the OC position.

    I'll expect McDaniels to use his best players in a manner that positions them for success. This time around it will be the 2TE set.
  5. BSR

    BSR Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2007
    Messages:
    2,944
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +31 / 0 / -0

    I think its almost certain that the offense will change somewhat this year, be it because of the change to McDaniels, the change in personnel or both. How those changes will materialize almost certainly depends on how the roster shakes out. There were a number of talented players brought in at WR,TE,RB and FB but not all are going to stick. I see McDaniels experimenting with personnel and grouping quite a bit to see what works best. I also think much of that experimentation will be focused on running the ball and running out of passing sets.

    All that being said, I think the biggest determining factor to where the offense evolves as the oline. Nate Solder is going to have a big part in this. Vollmer on the other side needs to return to health. If those two can't be depended on to pass protect consistently than all these elaborate groupings go out the window as TE will need to be left in to block more often.
  6. Ive_Killed_People

    Ive_Killed_People Rookie

    Joined:
    May 4, 2012
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    The difference from last year will be this: 1) We now have 3 decent receivers 2) We wont necessarily run more but, when we run on 1st and 10(like we always do) it wont always be 2 and 9 like it was last several years. Lawfirm was as undynamic a back as has ever played. I was pining for Marion Butts and one yard Dupard half the time. But he never fumbles!!!! Yeah you cant fumble with your knee on the ground
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,677
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +414 / 0 / -2

    I think you raise a very good point. I voted for choice #3 because I'd like to see the RBs involved more in the offense and more of a "too many weapons to cover" approach like the Saints use. But I doubt that BB and Josh McD know exactly what they are going to do until they see how the personnel evolve, and they're just getting their first glimpse of a lot of new bodies. If, for example, Shane Vereen develops and becomes a legitimate multi-purpose running-receiving threat and Stephen Ridley takes the next step in his development, then I think there's a good chance that they will involve them more - just as they recognized in 2010 what Gronk and Hernandez brought as rookies, which allowed them to move away from a Moss-Welker dominated approach. But if they don't, there are enough other options to move in different directions. Player development and injuries will play a big factor - if one of the TEs gets hurt then I could see the offense reverted to more of a 2007-2009 spread approach. If the WRs develo and the RBs don't then I could see the offense going to more of a fusion of 2007-2009 with 2010-2011.

    It will be very interesting to see how things play out.
  8. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +32 / 0 / -0

    #24 Jersey

    I believe Josh will be using screens more than BOB did as an extension of the running game. Having 2 blocking TE's plus AHern on the field with a RB/FB and a WR like Lloyd will pose some problems for any defense. Run or pass?

    Gronk block or up the seam?...Lloyd down sideline or blocking? AHern in slot or fake end around? RB/FB block, run or screen? Fells block or pass? ( Substitute Fells at TE for another WR for even more options)

    This could be a historically high scoring Offense....and with an improved (even slightly) Defense, the Patriots could be very tough to beat if they can stay healthy.
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,518
    Likes Received:
    172
    Ratings:
    +399 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    I hate to play the obvious card but it will be the most diverse offense we've ever seen.

    With 5 non OL/QB available :

    3 TE/2 RB we can do that easily.
    2 TE/2 2 WR/1 RB this should be the "base" with Welker and Lloyd at WR.
    2 TE/3 WR add Gaffney to the WR.
    2 TE/3 WR "stretch the field", how about Lloyd, Stallworth, Gaffney to give Welker a breather.
    *1 TE/4 WR, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth.
    *1 TE/3 WR/1RB, Hernandez, Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney or Stallworth and a RB
    and it goes on and on.

    I expect a ton of personnel packages.

    Last year we had no 3rd TE now we have the decent Fells.

    Last year Branch was our #2 WR and, I guess, Underwood was #3. Now Lloyd will be #2, Gaffney #3, Stallworth will get his packages, Branch should be a good backup all over.

    (note, # refer to how many catches I expect, we won't have a true #1, #2, #3 just packages).

    Bottom line, we were very limited last year with no third TE and no real WR after Welker and a gimpy Branch. Now we have a third TE plus Lloyd, Gaffney, Stallworth.

    The X Factor is the RB like others have said. Although I realized it wouldn't happen I said before the draft that a huge trade up for Richardson might make this the first truly unstoppable offense ever. Imagine the TE, the WR and also having to stop Richardson. Now, Ridley, Vereen, etc, won't be Richardson who is a true stud. But with what we'll be throwing out there ar WR and TE, if the RB should have very easy pickings if they're as good as I think they can be.

    Lastly - why the * next to the bottom 2 packages ? If we had the current personnel last year we could have played those package in the SB without Gronk. Imagine that we have that group WITHOUT Gronk.
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  10. Funktopus

    Funktopus Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2007
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    I'll take a guess: the Pats will be able to run more hurry up using any collection of personnel.
  11. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.

    About the only thing that can be determined is the personnel should be there to force a defense to defend every inch of the field.

    I can imagine NFLN starting a weekly show on the Patriots offense.
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,518
    Likes Received:
    172
    Ratings:
    +399 / 10 / -11

    #24 Jersey

    Also just wait for the 22 personnel (2 TE, 2 RB) with just Welker or Lloyd at WR. Defense brings in a run package only to see Vereen and Hernandez split out as WR. Pick your poison there - play the big defense we split them out and throw. Play the throw and we have the big personnel in there. I have to sound like a euphoric little girl but the options Josh has are limited only by his imagination and he's never lacked for that.
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,677
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +414 / 0 / -2

    I can't wait to see this. If Vereen and Ridley develop it will dramatically transform the offense.
  14. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    20,620
    Likes Received:
    110
    Ratings:
    +277 / 18 / -2

    I agree with all of your analysis.

    In 2011, we were limited without a #3 WR and a #3 TE. We need the functionality that these players provide, as well as the depth provided. We will now have a solid #4 receiver in case of injury (and perhaps even a 5th).

    We will also have more flexibility with the RB's and FB. Sending 4 receivers out (including TE's) is fine, as long as someone is able to be in the backfield as an outlet and to protect Brady. We will also have more options in short yardage having a fullback and havind Addai. We will also see what Josh has in store for Ridley. Obviously, Vareen is a total unknown, but he could move Woodhead to the inactive list.

    The difficulty will be in deciding which skill players to have active.

    BOTTOM LINE
    Belichick has used free agency to give Josh and Brady much needed additional tools. Let the fun begin!

    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  15. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0


    Not to derail this excellent thread, but as gr8 all of this offensive potential looks, just remember that we just devoted our entire draft to the defense, and along with some returning high-profile injured players, the defense could become at least adequate, if not better.

    This team is also young and improving, for the most part, and I don't see any major areas of weakness, if the off season additions perform to reasonable expectations.

    We could be looking at the start of something really special in New England.
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    I think they are just tweeking it and hoping to refine it and hoping to have the depth to run it consistently as they intended to last season. Ocho really screwed the pooch on BOB last year, as did the situation with the 2 rookie backs, Benny's toe, Woodhead's ankle and groin and Faulk's rehab status. They utilized FA extensively to potentially upgrade depth on offense, and a combination of FA and pretty much the entire draft to upgrade talent on defense. They may not be done on defense pending OTA's and early TC. They haven't issued Carter's or Ihedibo's jersey numbers yet.
    Last edited: May 23, 2012
  17. everlong

    everlong Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,878
    Likes Received:
    88
    Ratings:
    +151 / 1 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I hope it also eliminates the need to use Hernandez as a running back. It's an effective change up but he runs too high out of the back field and got lit up a few times. He means too much to the offense.

    I hope the FB additions means they'll line up in an obvious running situation and ram it down the other team's throat when needed. I'm not adovating 3 yards and a cloud of dust because with this roster that idiotic. But with a 10+ point lead late in the game instead of passing or letting Brady sneak a 3rd and long one and get broken in half by Ray Lewis run the ball. Make them honor it and then play action when needed.

    I do hope when teams go really small they show they will commit to the run and force DBs off the field.

    But your summary of all they can do is really good.
  18. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Messages:
    6,148
    Likes Received:
    94
    Ratings:
    +217 / 19 / -10

    I am going to propose a course of action that is completely contradictory to what has been suggested. Yet it also answers the questions of what is Bill Belichick up to, and doing, and what does it imply.

    My thesis is that Bill is and has been preparing for a "ground and pound", very balanced Offense. But with a unconventional twist.

    Bill will have a complete running Offense on the field almost always, with two TEs and some big backs, maybe even including a FB. Every one of whom, can be a reliable reciever. He has drafted and signed some awfully big Offensive linemen, much bigger than was the norm before.

    Good Bye Nick Kaczur, hello bigger Sebastian Volmer. Good bye Matt Light, hello big guy Nate Solder. Good bye, great pulling Steven Neal, hello massive Marcus Cannon. Good bye quick Dan Koppen, hello Big Dan Connelly.

    I believe Bill intends to improve his Defense too, with better personnel, but just as much by dominating TOP, and keeping them off the field. With the passing rules in effect, Bill appears to have decided that the best and only Defense is keep the opponent's Offense off the field.

    Unlike the usual "ground and pound", good run, poor pass teams, this run Offense can shift, without substituting any players, into a deadly passing game. A deadly 2TE, passing game as has been demonstrated already, in 2011.

    When the Defense spends 28 minutes on the field instead of 32 minute per game, stats will change. As well as having a deeper more talented defensive squad, the Defensive stats will become much more respectable, almost as a matter of course. :cool::cool:
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 1, 2008
    Messages:
    12,677
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +414 / 0 / -2

    I have wanted more run/pass balance and more integration since 2009. I'd live to be able to pound the ball occasionally a la 2004. And I'd love more run/pass imagination. But by no stretch of my very vivid imagination can I imagine going to a ground and pound approach as our primary offense.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2006
    Messages:
    41,874
    Likes Received:
    396
    Ratings:
    +1,157 / 52 / -64

    Disable Jersey

    Given the two previous posts (ground and pound..), I think this tidbit of information is appropriate in this thread as a bit of something to think about with the passing:

    The Patriots will have 5 of the 2011 NFL's top 22 receivers in terms of receptions to drop ratio (100 targets minimum):

    Gaffney #4
    Welker #6
    Gronk #15
    Hernandez #19
    Lloyd #22

    'Best hands I've ever seen on a receiver' - NFC West Blog - ESPN

    That very group is one that I'm hoping to see out there as a morphing attack, with Hernandez sometimes in the backfield and sometimes strung out in a 5 wide look.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>