Welcome to PatsFans.com

How Rachel Died

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Wildo7, Jul 29, 2008.

  1. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,852
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +39 / 2 / -0

    http://www.alternet.org/story/93082/

    How rachel died
    The Killing of Rachel Hoffman and the Tragedy That Is Pot Prohibition
    By Paul Armentano, AlterNet
    Posted on July 29, 2008, Printed on July 29, 2008

    Rachel Hoffman is dead. Rachel Hoffman, like many young adults, occasionally smoked marijuana.

    But Rachel Hoffman is not dead as a result of smoking marijuana; she is dead as a result of marijuana prohibition.

    Under prohibition, Rachel faced up to five years in a Florida prison for possessing a small amount of marijuana. (Under state law, violators face up to a $5,000 fine and five years in prison for possession of more than 20 grams of pot.)

    Under prohibition, the police in Rachel's community viewed the 23-year-old recent college graduate as nothing more than a criminal and threatened her with jail time unless she cooperated with them as an untrained, unsupervised confidential informant. Her assignment: Meet with two men she'd never met and purchase a large quantity of cocaine, ecstasy and a handgun. Rachel rendezvoused with the two men; they shot and killed her.
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,508
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +342 / 3 / -13

    Well, that was just stupid. This is waaayyyy out of the ordinary in the US.

    Pot SHOULD be legal...but no other recreational drugs should be. So this scenario could again arise even if pot became legal with ecstasy or cocaine. Drugs in general should not be legal. I don't think there is a solid debate to counter that. Yes, there are debates, but in my opinion they are not solid.

    Do people die because of the fact drugs are illegal? Yes, of course but that's not a good reason to legalize them.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    41,414
    Likes Received:
    138
    Ratings:
    +265 / 10 / -26

  4. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,852
    Likes Received:
    34
    Ratings:
    +39 / 2 / -0

    Um drugs should be legal. Nobody has the right to tell me what I can and can't put in my body. There's virtually no solid argument for keeping them illegal. And that's not what the article is about. The fact that they are illegal is one thing, the draconian penalties are another. The police that forced this girl into this situation should be in jail.
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,827
    Likes Received:
    138
    Ratings:
    +186 / 4 / -6

    Glad you posted that, especially because the Alternet story was written by someone who writes for NORML! (In the late '70s, I knew someone who did some work for NORML. He said every afternoon around 3 pm they took a pot break after which absolutely nothing got done!)

    The story you posted makes it sound like the police are trying to cover their asses, knowing they're going face a big lawsuit and, who knows, maybe even criminal complaints. At any rate, it's a very sad story.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,711
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +40 / 0 / -2

    #15 Jersey

    That's f'd up.
    I believe if your pulled over in Florida and have a small amount of pot, they confiscate it, and your on your way, as its a misdemeanor (go to court for a small fine). So, Rachel has over that amount and is on prohibition which translates to going under cover to purchase drugs that are to marijuana what a Hummer 3 is to an Abrams Tank.
    Great, the law enforcement got a pot smoker off the street.
    I wonder if they caught the drug dealers................maybe they offered them a deal.
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,508
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +342 / 3 / -13

    I agree 100% with the bolded above.

    I like that drugs are illegal (except pot) and hope it remains that way. At least that is my vote. I don't want to have to start paying taxes:D
  8. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2005
    Messages:
    3,500
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    This might be a little off topic but it always irritates me when the news reports about a big drug bust it always seems to be Pot.
    Because people are such a danger to themselves and others.:rolleyes:

    Why is it never a big heroin or crack bust or any other drug that really does turn people loony. Weed just makes you a little sleepy and crave chocolate. But I've never seen or heard of a stoner mugging somebody for a fix of chocolate.
    Though it seems a bit hypocritical to say, I have to agree with the poster that stated that weed should be legal but no other recreational drug....
    except of course caffeine....
    .....oh yeah, and alcohol..
    ...and nicotine, too.
    and extacy.
    All right. Maybe not extacy then. (I can't even spell it)
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,508
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +342 / 3 / -13

    Caffeine & nicotene aren't drugs but alcohol is. I think to be classified as a drug, it has to be mind altering to some extent...actually, I don't know why they're not drugs, but they aren't.

    I did ecstacy back when it first came out...around 1981. The best buzz I ever had and I've never done it since.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2008
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,990
    Likes Received:
    188
    Ratings:
    +433 / 5 / -2

    First and foremost, as is always the case, her death is obviously tragic. She's not some loser child molester, or some home invader. She's simply a 23 year old who likes to do drugs. Having dabbled a bit myself, and having grown up where I've grown up, people like her aren't necessarily evil. Never the less, the law is the law when it comes to drugs (I think pot should be legalized and regulated). Some cops let you pass if you got a joint on you, but if you've got pot & ectasy in your possesion, you're getting run without question. Especially if you were this woman, who had been arrested for possesion before this most recent incedent, and was on probation.

    So how did she die? What led to her being shot? Did the police send her into a bad situation? Did they not protect her? Hmm...

    I've had friends get pinched for similar reasons, who ended up cooperating with the cops to bust the people they purchased from, in exchange for a lighter sentence. Doing this comes with risks. If she met them on her own, ignoring police protocol, then who's to blame here? Again, her death is tragic, but it's not soley (there is always some blame to go around) the pots fault, the cops, or the laws that prohibit it. Her death is the fault of those two animals who killed her, and her own for putting herself in a position where it could occur. I know, I'm an uncompassionate arsehole. Whatever. If I go drink a 6 pack and kill myself on the way home, it's my fault. My death, heaven forbid, would be tragic, but it'd be my own fault for putting myself in such a position. Remember, she didn't have to agree to do this. She could have accepted whatever punishment the court levied upon her. Where I'd question the judgement of police, is putting a woman who had possesion charges against her, into a deal where a weapon was being purchased. Obviously these guys weren't your local dime baggers, if they'll selling a gun. I think that's a bad situation for this woman to be in, even with police protection.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,827
    Likes Received:
    138
    Ratings:
    +186 / 4 / -6

    Whether the police description of how things transpired is accurate remains to be found out. I thought it was interesting that it took them a number of hours before they explained exactly what happened. Are they trying to cover themselves, or are they describing things accurately? Also, why didn't the police follow protocol and notify the prosecutor? Was this women judged to be competent to handle this kind of dangerous task? Was she properly trained? Was it made clear to her the risk involved? The police may have done everything perfectly, but that remains to be seen. It could also be that she was intimidated and threatened by police into cooperating in an assignment that carried more risks than she was made aware of. We just don't know the truth yet. Hopefully the parents will sue or there will be an investigation to get to the bottom of this, and prevent other similar tragedies from happening in the future.
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    39,824
    Likes Received:
    170
    Ratings:
    +538 / 2 / -9

    Dear Waldo,
    I,a Far Right Wing Flaming Neo Con AGREE with you and I wouldn't just stop with Pot I would legalize all drugs, America loves it's drugs and America will get it's drugs, the minute the Government makes something Illegal there is a criminal starting to figure out a way to get that "something" and sell it to you in a back alley.

    If drugs should be legalized that doesn't mean everybody in America is going to run out and get high, the people that buy the new legal drug will be the same people that are now buying the Illegal Drug but legalizing it will take the scumbag bastard drug dealers right out of the buisness, if the swaggering dirty dealer wearing the $300 sneakers wants to keep buying those sneakers he will have to go to work cleaning toilets.

    Any type of drug that is Illegal now in this country you can walk down to your local school yard and buy in five minutes.

    Just imagine the thousands of smelly bastard drug dealers that would be set on their a$s if we "Ended Prohibition"

    There are quite a few Politicians, Lawyers, Cops, Judges and other Rotten scum in our government that also would get hit, that White Envelope passed under the table for the cover up would no longer exist.

    AMERICA LOVES IT'S DRUGS AMERICA WILL ALWAYS GET IT'S DRUGS

    When the carload of teenagers smashes into the Pine Tree at 3AM and the mangled bodies litter the highway it isn't the bag of pot or the needle that lies among them it is the "Little Brown Bottle" BOOZE.

    I saw a wreck on the highway
    But I didn't hear nobody pray
    Whiskey and blood flowed together
    But I didn't hear nobody pray
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Messages:
    26,508
    Likes Received:
    134
    Ratings:
    +342 / 3 / -13

    Nice touch at the end there Harry. I wish you'd do more of that.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,748
    Likes Received:
    74
    Ratings:
    +160 / 7 / -13

    Drugs should be legal as long as I don't have to pay for someone else's rehab.

    Roll your own party but accept the consequences.
  15. schmessy

    schmessy Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>