How much is correctable?

[MoLewisrocks]

This is a big issue, IMO. Yes, there are personnel issues. But we've always had those (Hello Earthwind Moreland, Hank Poteat and Randall Gay), and overcome them. Now, there has been so much brain drain, losing RAC and Mangini on defense, and probably the top 4 offensive minds on the staff, that I'm not confident BB can do enough with smoke and mirrors to mask the personnel issues.

When Bill was asked about the potential fallout from losing RAC and Charlie back in 2004, his response was as long as we still have Ernie we'll be fine. RAC and Charlie weren't the guys concocting the smoke and mirrors, just the guys implementing it. The had some pretty adept students of the game to work with. As those guys aged out on defense and defected or broke down on offense a new core had to be developed. That is what Josh and BOB and Pees have been asked to implement with. Apples and oranges comparisons in all cases. We also never had the target on our backs that emerged over the course of three championships in four seasons and an undefeated regular season on the heels of not one but two gleefully anticipated falls from glory... Believe me, RAC and Charlie never dealt with anything like the elevated level of expectations or the focused attention this team has endured from without and within over the last three or four seasons.

 

[JFK]

What we need to do is replace KacZur with Light or Vollmer. We don't have the players to improve the pass rush. AD, Burgess and Woods just can't do it.

The other issues would be fixed after the Super Bowl.

 

[aluminum seats]

I think there are two keys and of the two pass/run blocking trumps the pass rush because there are more teams who can stop us than outscore us all things being equal.

I agree that the offensive line performance is huge. I guess my point was that I see the pass rush as the one vital key that I'm most doubtful about improvement. If the O-Line is healthy (which can be a big if, admittedly) all should be well there. The supposed pass rushers on the team have been healthy for the most part, so I'm not sure if marked improvement is possible.

 

[BelichickFan]

I never saw either one as a 3-4 OLB for us. Maybe ILB. Good players, though.

I'm not even sure what "for us" means going forward, whether we'll play more 4-3 next year if Vince is gone, or any of that. With Seymour already gone and Vince maybe, the defense is changing so much that it's hard to define for me at this point. In the Front Seven, only Warren and Mayo are left of sure fire top players. They seem to like Guyton and Prior. Thomas is likely gone, Vince, Green and Burgess are FA.

I guess the starting DL next year, among signed players, is Warren, Pryor, Wright with Mayo and Guyton inside and no OLB to speak of. I wouldn't mind drafting Spikes and putting Guyton outside but there's some serious work on the Front Seven yet to be done.

 

[BostonBullit]

A buddy sent this to me yesterday, not sure if he got it from somewhere or mined the info himself but it tells a tale. it's a fairly clear trend with the exception of 2007 but even 07 ultimately proved the trend true:

Patriots Season Sack totals:
2001 43
2002 34
2003 41
2004 45
2005 33
2006 44
2007 47
2008 31
2009 19 (27)

no pass rush = no ring.

My personal opinion is that the main issue is the lack of quality coordinators which is leading to both BB being spread too thin and also a spotlight on his weaknesses. That leads to predictable play calling on offense which keeps them from putting up points and a lack of any meaningful adjustments in the second half. without the pass rush the opponents are able to put up points and keep things close and without a good O coord the offense isn't able to adjust to the other teams halftime adjustments and they "look" like crap in the second half even if they're doing the exact same thing that worked in the first two quarters. if they still had a reasonably good offensive coach and where able to successfully adapt and score point in the second half then the other teams would be pressured into more passing situations and the Pats pass rush would look better even though it still sucks (see 07).

Making the assumption that you had the pass rush taken care of because Jason Taylor was coming to town was a potentially fatal mistake. thinking you could just keep popping (increasingly inexperienced) guys into coord positions and have them be successful was a potentially fatal mistake. not realizing that Old Man Joey wasn't going to "get it" and coming up with an alternative before the season started was a potentially fatal mistake.

I'm done rambling now

 

[RobertWeathers]

A buddy sent this to me yesterday, not sure if he got it from somewhere or mined the info himself but it tells a tale. it's a fairly clear trend with the exception of 2007 but even 07 ultimately proved the trend true:

Patriots Season Sack totals:
2001 43
2002 34
2003 41
2004 45
2005 33
2006 44
2007 47
2008 31
2009 19 (27)

no pass rush = no ring.

My personal opinion is that the main issue is the lack of quality coordinators which is leading to both BB being spread too thin and also a spotlight on his weaknesses. That leads to predictable play calling on offense which keeps them from putting up points and a lack of any meaningful adjustments in the second half. without the pass rush the opponents are able to put up points and keep things close and without a good O coord the offense isn't able to adjust to the other teams halftime adjustments and they "look" like crap in the second half even if they're doing the exact same thing that worked in the first two quarters. if they still had a reasonably good offensive coach and where able to successfully adapt and score point in the second half then the other teams would be pressured into more passing situations and the Pats pass rush would look better even though it still sucks (see 07).

Making the assumption that you had the pass rush taken care of because Jason Taylor was coming to town was a potentially fatal mistake. thinking you could just keep popping (increasingly inexperienced) guys into coord positions and have them be successful was a potentially fatal mistake. not realizing that Old Man Joey wasn't going to "get it" and coming up with an alternative before the season started was a potentially fatal mistake.

I'm done rambling now

More like good pass rush= Appearence in AFCCC.

 

[mgteich]

I can understand Belichick not drafting an outside linebacker early. The value just wasn't there.

I think that either Sintim at 40 or Laurinitis at 34 would likely have added more than Chung or Brace in 2009. But Belichick apparently thinks that Brace will be good enough to replace Wilfork in 2010 or 2011 if Wilfork leaves. Belichick also thought that Chung was a future stud and a top-notch special teamer. Given the choices, his choices were certainly reasonable.

From where I sit, Belichick had an opportunity to choose a top guard in Unger or Levitre for one of these picks. In the end, he delayed solving the guard situation until 2010. Of course it is just possible that his choice Ohrnberger will be a future stud. He does seem to be a longshot to be better than what is available in the 2010 2nd round.

Brace went #40. Cushing was gone at #15, Mathews at #26. Cushing was never an option, Mathews we could have taken but it would have cost us a lot more than Brace as we wouldn't have gotten the excellent valued trade downs that we ended up with.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

When Bill was asked about the potential fallout from losing RAC and Charlie back in 2004, his response was as long as we still have Ernie we'll be fine. RAC and Charlie weren't the guys concocting the smoke and mirrors, just the guys implementing it. The had some pretty adept students of the game to work with. As those guys aged out on defense and defected or broke down on offense a new core had to be developed. That is what Josh and BOB and Pees have been asked to implement with. Apples and oranges comparisons in all cases. We also never had the target on our backs that emerged over the course of three championships in four seasons and an undefeated regular season on the heels of not one but two gleefully anticipated falls from glory... Believe me, RAC and Charlie never dealt with anything like the elevated level of expectations or the focused attention this team has endured from without and within over the last three or four seasons.

Mo

Are you saying that the core players 01-04 who became the "old and slow" dudes 06-07 are being replaced and we have to live with the pains of having a "young and fast defense"?

Here is a question since you are most likely my favorite poster:

How many points do you think a "great" defense will limit the Saints and what point total would you feel is satisfactory for this defense?