How much does this SB loss damage Peyton Manning's legacy?

[fnordcircle]

I feel like a broken record since I'm saying this everywhere but Manning's one SB victory is against one of the top 5 worst SB teams in the history of the game, imo.

I think only the 94 Chargers and *sigh* the 85 Pats were worse than those Bears.

If the Patriots only win was against the Panthers naysayers would be howling about how we've never won against a 'real' team. But you never hear that **** about Manning's SB victory against the Grossman-lead Bears.

Manning has 2 solid wins in the post season, imo, and both of them are against us, sadly. But for a resume as gaudy as his is until January rolls around it really can't be overstated how underwhelming his one victory is with the Lombardi on the line.

 

[PATS16N0]

I feel like a broken record since I'm saying this everywhere but Manning's one SB victory is against one of the top 5 worst SB teams in the history of the game, imo.

I think only the 94 Chargers and *sigh* the 85 Pats were worse than those Bears.

If the Patriots only win was against the Panthers naysayers would be howling about how we've never won against a 'real' team. But you never hear that **** about Manning's SB victory against the Grossman-lead Bears.

Manning has 2 solid wins in the post season, imo, and both of them are against us, sadly. But for a resume as gaudy as his is until January rolls around it really can't be overstated how underwhelming his one victory is with the Lombardi on the line.

Where do you think the 2013 Broncos rank among WORST SUPERBOWL TEAMS OF ALL TIME?

:singing:

 

[fnordcircle]

Where do you think the 2013 Broncos rank among WORST SUPERBOWL TEAMS OF ALL TIME?

:singing:

Seattle was the better team but Denver's performance was probably the 3rd biggest choke job in terms of a team that showed up and just completely under performed relative to their regular season performance.

2001 Rams and 2007 Patriots got them beat, though. Denver was playing a better team than the 2001 Patriots and the 2007 Giants which mitigates some of it as much as it pains me to say it.

I'll always be bitter about 2007.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Where do you think the 2013 Broncos rank among WORST SUPERBOWL TEAMS OF ALL TIME?

:singing:

You know, in all honesty, they are a terrible Super Bowl team.

The AFC was soft and easy. The Patriots made it to the AFC championship game with a largely beat-up roster and Denver was untested until the NFL championship.

Everyone knew it was to be Denver and New England coming out of the AFC. The draft will swing this around in a few years. For now, the AFC has too many joke teams. Imagine if the Arizona Cardinals played in the AFC? They might have been in the Super Bowl.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Seattle was the better team but Denver's performance was probably the 3rd biggest choke job in terms of a team that showed up and just completely under performed relative to their regular season performance.

2001 Rams and 2007 Patriots got them beat, though. Denver was playing a better team than the 2001 Patriots and the 2007 Giants which mitigates some of it as much as it pains me to say it.

I'll always be bitter about 2007.

The Patriots offense scored 591 points during the regular season.

The Patriots offense scored 14 points in the Super Bowl and didn't turn the ball over.

The Broncos offense scored 607 points during the regular season.

The Broncos offense scored 8 points in the Super Bowl. They also gave away a pick-7 and a safety, which conservatively amounts to a point total of -1. That's if you don't count the other turnovers that also led to eventual points.

True, these Seahawks were a great team, but the 07 Patriots played in the flow of the game with those Giants. The offense underwhelmed but scored when it needed to until the very end.

Not seeing how the 07 Patriots were worse.

 

[fnordcircle]

Not seeing how the 07 Patriots were worse.

Cool stats in an opinion discussion, I guess.

The Broncos lost to the better team. The 2007 Patriots choked to an inferior team. But to each his own.

It's a weird debate to have when we should all be celebrating the demise of Manning like the small, petty people we are. I sure am.

 

[PatsFan24]

I don't know...the concept behind these types of threads is just to get people talking and debating. Kind of like a top ten list. The only thing this changes if five years from now he will be lower on a top ten list among fans and media talking heads. Others will say it doesn't lower him. We will never get to a place where we all agree on who the best of all time is and where everyone else should be in the top ten or top five or top three. Manning probably cares more about losing the game then how someone who doesn't even play or coach football is going to judge his career five or ten years from now.

 

[PatsFan24]

You know, in all honesty, they are a terrible Super Bowl team.

The AFC was soft and easy. The Patriots made it to the AFC championship game with a largely beat-up roster and Denver was untested until the NFL championship.

Everyone knew it was to be Denver and New England coming out of the AFC. The draft will swing this around in a few years. For now, the AFC has too many joke teams. Imagine if the Arizona Cardinals played in the AFC? They might have been in the Super Bowl.

The weak points that the Broncos had all season showed up on Sunday. Poor defense, and an offense that turns the ball over. Two things you can't have if you are going to win in the postseason. Those were issues all regular season for the Broncos.

 

[Kdo5]

Tom Brady > Peyton Manning. Let the near decade long debate come to a close. Most playoff losses, a lot of one and dones and 1-2 in the SB.

 

[Claremonster]

To me Peyton is a great regular season QB who puts up great video game numbers. But put him in the postseason, in the BIG GAME and he just appears to choke. If I want to win in the playoffs there are a LOT of guys I'd pick ahead of Peyton Manning right now.

IMO Peyton is going to own a lot of records when all is said and done. But if this is going to continue to be his pattern - come up small when all the marbles are on the line. Well you've got to think this damages his legacy and confidence in him getting the job done going forward.

Final Score - Seahawks 43 Bronocos 8

Peyton - 34/49 280 yards 1 TD 2 INT

Seattle Seahawks vs. Denver Broncos - Live NFL GameTrax | FOX Sports on MSN

Losing to the Saints was bad for Peyton but at least that was a close game.
In this game, Peyton didn't look like he could get the job done AT ALL!

How does this game ever change his legacy? Oh, I dunno...maybe a LOT?

Even the two Pats superbowl losses vs the Giants, they were in it until the very end!

These goobers were shutdown after that safety. **** SAKES...

What a joke...

 

[Claremonster]

I just wondered whether Elway, after he accepted victory was out of the question for the Donkeys, thought "if only Manning loses by more than 45 points, then my name comes off the worst loss in Super Bowl history."

lmao...classic stuff right here!:singing:

 

[Deus Irae]

Nick Underhill, in trying to tell people not to talk about this game cementing Manning's legacy, essentially cements Manning's legacy. His 'tiers' argument is off because of his QB list, but the important line is in there:

Brady and Montana sit on one side due to their postseason excellence and solid numbers, and Manning and Marino are on the other.

and his final line makes the point for those of us who've downgraded Peyton among the greats while watching so many others dropping to their knees in order to worship at the altar of the mighty fivehead:

At this point, after so many years, Manning is who he is. The perception shouldn't have changed Sunday night.

Legacy talk surrounding Peyton Manning should be put on hold | masslive.com

Yes, after so many years, Manning is who he is. He's Dan Marino catching a break one year.

 

[GaryfromTO]

it doesn't.

he always sucked in big games.
His one ring was a fluke.




Brady,
Playoff record 26 games 18w 8L
Championships 2001, 2003, 2004
*(lost 2 Super bowls to Giants in 2008 (by 3 pts) and 2012 (by 4 pts)

Manning 23 games 11w 12L
Championship 2006
(lost 2 Super Bowls, 2010 to the Saints by 14 points, 2014 to the Seahawks by 35 pts)

HEY MEDIA.

SHADDUP ALREADY!

 

[thenepatsrule]

What is this legacy you talk of

 

[RIpats88]

isnt this season though really a microcosm of Mannings whole career?

puts up star wars stats in the regular season, media fawns all over him and then he pukes all over himself when it comes to the big games.

give credit to that seattle defense, BUT there was no excuse for those picks manning threw. desperation throws that were right to the other team.

 

[vyrago]

The legacy of Denver Broncos QB Peyton Manning - NFL Videos

Deion Says it like it is.

O.K. that settles it for me. Tom's got to win at least one more to shut all these blowhards up!!

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

If Peyton was our QB we'd be defending him as well (though might be tough after a game like that).

For me, I really wanted the Broncos to lose because Brady is my guy and I honestly think he's better in every little way that matters to a QB putting his team in a position to win.

I don't have any issues with Peyton the person or even Peyton the QB. He's a likable guy and puts everything he has into the game. It's really the media that makes me hate Peyton, the football god. They (the media) have decided to make this Brady vs. Manning as to the greatest of their generation and they have thrown in with Manning because they hate BB the public speaker at press conferences. Really, that's it.

They don't get their soundbites, they don't get entertained and they feel disrespected because he doesn't respect them. they forget, that they earned that disrespect first and never tried to work with him, on BB's terms to come to a mutual working relationship. The media thinks it makes the story, it's the tail that wags the dog. They feel their opinions should matter and they do everything in their power to shape perception.

As for Peyton's legacy, it's a tough hole to dig out of. Is he a first ballot hall of famer. YES. Should he have been a unanimous MVP this year (probably). But, he is now 1 game below .500 for playoff games and when you are going to breakdown QBs at that elite HoF level, everything is in play and winning is what counts. And the post season is what every player plays for. He's great and if it wasn't for Brady he'd be the greatest of his generation (another media soundbite that they repeat until people start believing).

 

[ensoul]

I love the fact that Manning lost. With that said Broncos ran into a buzzsaw last night. Its Hard to imagine Brady (or any other QB for that matter) faring any better.

When Peyton retires he will still be considered a top 5 QB in NFL history.

 

[upstater1]

Nick Underhill, in trying to tell people not to talk about this game cementing Manning's legacy, essentially cements Manning's legacy. His 'tiers' argument is off because of his QB list, but the important line is in there:

and his final line makes the point for those of us who've downgraded Peyton among the greats while watching so many others dropping to their knees in order to worship at the altar of the mighty fivehead:

Legacy talk surrounding Peyton Manning should be put on hold | masslive.com

Yes, after so many years, Manning is who he is. He's Dan Marino catching a break one year.

His piece mainly rankled me when he wrote this:

He may have even gained a leg on Brady, since there's an argument to be made about how much each player meant to their team's during championship years.

Here is how I responded in the comments:

I can't understand why so many reporters like Underhill downplay Tom Brady. Marshall Faulk did it as well by saying Brady was a game manager in the Super Bowls, which were won by defense and a clutch kicker. Everyone totally negates, for instance, that the Patriots defense against Carolina gave up 29 points in 30 minutes. The Patriots gained almost 500 yards on the NFL's #1 defense. Brady had to throw for about 350, and put up a top 5 Super Bowl performance in yards. He didn't get the MVP, but really that Super Bowl was all about him. Adam Vinatieri missed 2 chip shot field goals. All I heard this week was that Brady's Super Bowls were won with defense and FG kicking. The first one, sure--even though Brady lead the game winning drive with 80 seconds left. The other 2, no way. People love to downplay Brady it seems.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Like it was said before the SB, this game was huge for the great debate. Manning wins and gets #2, IMO makes a very strong case for putting him over Tommy as a 1 ring difference probably doesn't make up for the overall stats. This loss keeps Tom firmly ahead and unless Manning makes it back to win, it stays that way regardless of what Tom does.

The manner in which he lost though is even further damaging to his argument though. It's one thing to lose, and in some cases there would have been no shame in losing to Seattle, who last night solidified themselves as the strongest team in a LONG time. But it's another thing to come out and completely fold like he's done in so many playoff games. Say what you want about Tom's bad playoff outings, but he has never put up 8 and 3 points, ESPECIALLY not with a supporting cast like the ones PM had this year and in 2004. If Manning was at least halfway productive early on and Denver lost the game solely on not being able to match Seattle's output, it wouldn't have hurt as much. But from the start of the game you could see not just from the #'s, but as I noted in another thread the tentative and scared nature of this previously juggernaut offense, now playing like our 2001 dink and dunk offense by the 2nd quarter after Seattle set the tone early. They completely folded.